PAF & the ramifications of Rafale's sale to India

[sathya]

Dear Sir,
Seems like U are underestimating capabilities of our organisations like NESCOM, AWC, PEC and not to forget PAC etc. We have trained manpower and capable brains in almost every field and JVs ensure that those brains are used for longer time and do not remain idle. For instance just one small example i wud like to quote is that ECS system of Thunder was completely redesigned by just one Pakistani brain. He is the guy who was employed by NASA too while pursuing his PhD at states from PAF side. There are many such examples in every field. With regards to money, that can always be arranged. One must just have will. Plus such a JV wud kick start R&D in Pakistan.


Is there any bar on a NATO country to indulge in any kind of project with China? Pakistan can always be a binding factor between both. Mutual problems can always be sorted out.

Like proud _ indian said,

China don't have form joint venture with Pakistan ,
Chinese have almost everything themselves
What they don't have , neither Pakistan nor Turkey can provide, - engines
If you wanted partnership , you should join J31 program and make Pakistan specific j31..

 

[shah1398]

Sir.
with due respect, I asked what Pakistan bring to the table that china doesn't already posses or your technical manpower are more competent than of china's.

Are the JVs only about offering what other party do not posses? We have rich experience with Western and US systems which China does not have. But ofcourse its our requirement/interest to enter in partnership with China. Not necessarily theirs. Same was PAKFA project in your case.

 

[HAIDER]

" someone in PAF said " ....Pakistan ultimate goal to get 36 or more block 52 to match Indian Rafale ...just in case India get it. ...minimum target is set to 36 block 52. ...So, PAF already planned the game...no worries.

 

[MKC]

Dear Sir,
Seems like U are underestimating capabilities of our organisations like NESCOM, AWC, PEC and not to forget PAC etc. We have trained manpower and capable brains in almost every field and JVs ensure that those brains are used for longer time and do not remain idle. For instance just one small example i wud like to quote is that ECS system of Thunder was completely redesigned by just one Pakistani brain. He is the guy who was employed by NASA too while pursuing his PhD at states from PAF side. There are many such examples in every field. With regards to money, that can always be arranged. One must just have will. Plus such a JV wud kick start R&D in Pakistan.

If you want to counter Rafale, I don't think these organizations have capability, if you want a JV what you can provide is money & experience, if these organizations form a JV then these can help but if you don't form JV then I don't think these can make an aircraft similar to Rafale or 5G fighter.

Is there any bar on a NATO country to indulge in any kind of project with China? Pakistan can always be a binding factor between both. Mutual problems can always be sorted out.

I don't these is any problem between NATO country & China to go for a JV but when it comes to Turkey-China they aren't just neighbors.
Their not only people to people but govt to govt relations are also very bad. However I don't much about Turkey-China relations but gave an idea on knowledge I have.

 

[sathya]

" someone in PAF said " ....Pakistan ultimate goal to get 36 or more block 52 to match Indian Rafale ...just in case India get it. ...minimum target is set to 36 block 52. ...So, PAF already planned the game...no worries.

F16 without AESA is not a match.

 

[HAIDER]

F16 without AESA is not a match.

US already provided and remain will be provided with AESA. They usually have policy of later upgrades.

 

[shah1398]

You are quoting the wrong example here, We brought money to the venture and yes it was in the interest of Russians. they want Indian money for this JV to be financially viable, But it's not the case with china.

emotions aside these ventures doesn't work this way, either you have the market(money) or the technology that china doesn't have already. It won't work.

Who invests in a project in which U are not given full access till now? Even Russians reportedly arnt yet thinking of inducting PAKFA till now. With regards to China its never been money. There are interests and a strong Pakistan is in their interest.

 

[shah1398]

If you want to counter Rafale, I don't think these organizations have capability, if you want a JV what you can provide is money & experience, if these organizations form a JV then these can help but if you don't form JV then I don't think these can make an aircraft similar to Rafale or 5G fighter.

I don't these is any problem between NATO country & China to go for a JV but when it comes to Turkey-China they aren't just neighbors.
Their not only people to people but govt to govt relations are also very bad. However I don't much about Turkey-China relations but gave an idea on knowledge I have.

Points noted.

 

[Blue Marlin]

My guess is since Rafale comes with AESA , USA will allow AESA exports to Pakistan .. Will they ?

im not sure right now. but they will get an aesa radar with the blk jf-17.
personally i dont the what the faf is all about. the rafale has got an aesa irst and better avionics. also the size means its loiters for a longer range. a blk 60/61 f16 would suffice

 

[shah1398]

because we are not gonna get pakfa, we will develop pak fgfa which will be very different plane with tons of carbon fiber composites and western avionics and India will have about 50 percent work share in development as well.

See thats the difference. U are paying so much but still having problems in getting a work share for which U have already paid. With regards to China they are always more than willing to give us our envisaged work share even if we have not yet paid for. Like I said that a strong Pakistan is in the very interest of China.

 

[proud_indian]

See thats the difference. U are paying so much but still having problems in getting a work share for which U have already paid. With regards to China they are always more than willing to give us our envisaged work share even if we have not yet paid for. Like I said that a strong Pakistan is in the very interest of China.

what do you think what did I mean when I say work share?

 

[sathya]

im not sure right now. but they will get an aesa radar with the blk jf-17.
personally i dont the what the faf is all about. the rafale has got an aesa irst and better avionics. also the size means its loiters for a longer range. a blk 60/61 f16 would suffice

I am not sure jf17 will get an AESA ..
Even senior members were doubting the space available for cooling the radars.
Chinese are not forthcoming with the plans, so we will not know what block 3 holds, until one flies.

 

[Blue Marlin]

I am not sure jf17 will get an AESA ..
Even senior members were doubting the space available for cooling the radars.
Chinese are not forthcoming with the plans, so we will not know what block 3 holds, until one flies.

in interviews with pakistani airforce offacils they said they are seriously considering an aesa.
yes true we will not know what the jf-17 will bring untill 2018 ish.

 

[Paksanity]

We already are manfacturing SU30MKI from raw material.

And your defence minister runs to Russia for spares because half of MKIs sit idle on ground? Seriously dude?!

 

[princefaisal]

1) Increase the number of JF-17 blk 3 with Selex AESA radar & avionics.
2) Put some token money in J-31 or TFX program for early development. Meanwhile work on JF-17 stealth version should be initiated.
3) Get A-darter & Marlin BVR missiles with HMDS and integrate on all JF-17 blocks.
4) Get 36 customized Su-35s from Russia (having AESA-N050-Radar & K-77M bvr missiles) with approval for procurement of 60 Chinese J-11D having AL-37FU/ 117S thrust-vectoring turbofan engines. Please note that Procurement of Su-35 will open the gate for Chinese J-10s & other J series aircrafts with Russian engines.
5) Get S-350E Vityaz missile systems from Russia & Marlin SAM system from SA/Brazil for PAF.
6) Get Pantsyr-2 missile systems from Russia with Tot & Umkhonto IR Block II system for army air defence.
7) Join local production of a Mi-28 attack helicopter with dual control & 360° millimetre-wave radar system.
8) Replace all old MPDR systems with Turkish KALKAN Air Defence Radar
9) All fire control radars for guns and short range missiles should be replaced with ASELSAN Mobile Search 3D Radar.
10) PAF to introduce KORAL, a transportable system with jamming and deception capabilities that can paralyze hostile radar
11) Introduce submarine launched babar cruise missile.