PAF Should Stop Purchase of Any New F 16's

[ACE OF THE AIR]

you shouldn't replace an irrelevant expensive trainer with another expensive irrelevant trainer so that your pilot can fly JF-17. I hope the route is from F-7 PG to the flight simulator and then JF-17 not via F-16. if thats the case then its an insult to F-16 pilot that he has to degrade himself to a Pak/ China aircraft that is not even out of its infancy.

Sir,
PAF pilots are trained on F-7's which is fighter conversion and then they are sent to the Mirages from there they are sent to F-16's.

JF-17 Flight sim is realistic but still it is not as good as the training on the real aircraft. But just because of the limitation that it is single seat one can not give it in the hands of a Rooky.

 

[Sine Nomine]

you shouldn't replace an irrelevant expensive trainer with another expensive irrelevant trainer so that your pilot can fly JF-17. I hope the route is from F-7 PG to the flight simulator and then JF-17 not via F-16. if thats the case then its an insult to F-16 pilot that he has to degrade himself to a Pak/ China aircraft that is not even out of its infancy.

A senior told that guys are transferred via F-7PG to JF-17 1500 hours on PG's and some very outstanding one go directly from mirage, at least 10 to 12 tries are given on simulator if you fail your JFT dream ends.JFT surely needs a airframe redesign but surely looking at marketing team i think things will move as they are..

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Sir,
PAF pilots are trained on F-7's which is fighter conversion and then they are sent to the Mirages from there they are sent to F-16's.

JF-17 Flight sim is realistic but still it is not as good as the training on the real aircraft. But just because of the limitation that it is single seat one can not give it in the hands of a Rooky.

the sales pitch of JF-17 was if your pilot is trained to fly any jet fighter then the flight simulator is enough to train him to fly the JF-17. but if F-16 is the only closest thing that can offer a realistic training then its a blunder and I can understand why an Airforce that doesnt have F-16s wont be able to buy it and the one that has the F-16s wont buy it and instead go for more F-16s.. all the more reason to put criminal charges on the decision makers who insisted on single seater JF-17 what a scandal

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

@Windjammer You are wanted

 

[Paksanity]

the sales pitch of JF-17 was if your pilot is trained to fly any jet fighter then the flight simulator is enough to train him to fly the JF-17. but if F-16 is the only closest thing that can offer a realistic training then its a blunder and I can understand why an Airforce that doesnt have F-16s wont be able to buy it and the one that has the F-16s wont buy it and instead go for more F-16s.. all the more reason to put criminal charges on the decision makers who insisted on single seater JF-17 what a scandal

Pilots can move from any jet to JF-17. Not an issue.

 

[My-Analogous]

Hi,

Paf should stop any further purchase of the F 16's. With the availability of the J 10B with aesa---there a=is no reason for the Paf to go any further with the F 16 than where it is.

The F 16's have served their purpose well---it has been a great workhorse for the Pakistani defence forces----but it does not make any sense to decline the J 10B---.

Aesa radar is a game changer for any fighting force----it is a massive force multiplier---. All the weapons that the J 10 would need to use are being used by the JF 17's. With a 1000 TR modules---the Chinese aesa is supposedly as good as the sabr aesa for the F 16----sabr aesa is not available to pkistan.

This change should be made keeping in view the drama that was created by Pres Obama regarding Osama Bin Laden.

It is time for the Paf to change directions. The cost of the J 10 would be slightly less than the F 16 but the weapons systems equally potent and a radar far exceeding the one on the F 16.

It will also be making a statement to the U S---you have played us for long---it seems like your and our interests are not in the same parallels anymore---you have used every opportunity to slam us at every turn and corner for mistakes and errors in judgement that you could blame on us---.

Maybe you can have a partner in Iran----but for now----let us step away for a little while so that we can look at our issues and problems without any pressure from you and you can look at the your concerns without and attachment with us.

Mastan bhai, J-10 will be expensive for us and we have to develop from the grass root. F16 will give us some time and the next new type of plane to be added in PAF will be 5th gen i hope

 

[A2Z]

PAF won't stop buying F-16 that's for sure, as most members here say its the first love of PAF that can't be forgotten so easily. When USAF would replace its F-16s with F-35 that would open a new chapter in PAF and F-16 romance as then many F-16 would be available not only from USA but Europe as well.

However the wise thing as @MastanKhan mentioned would be to go for J-10B as well because that will force USA to offer us SABR AESA for our exsisting F-16 fleet. Going for J-10B would have one more advantage as well which is our eastern neighbors would never get a chance to train in exercises with J-10B and develop tactics against it and will always keep on wondering what PAF can pull off with a J-10B. Later is an advantage that F-16 despite being deadly can't offer.

JF-17 is something that is very important as well but at the moment is going on at fine pace, I am quite sure that Block 3 would be a beast pretty much on par with J-10B and F-16 Blk 60.

As far as J-31 and 5th gen is concerned I think Pakistan should play its Sino-Pak brotherhood card and somehow get J-20 instead. Waiting for India to induct FGFA and then going for J-31 is simply foolish. We should somehow get 5th gen before India does and see how they would react under pressure.

 

[Paksanity]

If AESA is the reason behind for opting J-10B, then our Vipers can be upgraded to AESA in no time. If Rafael end up in two years to our east, we can upgrade to AESA in a month time if Northop Grumman video above is true. Even F-16 A/B can be modified as per their claim. Watch links above. Sorry available on YouTube only.

 

[MastanKhan]

well i didnt know that if our pilots are training on a much expensive much limited much needed aircraft like F-16 and then go to a JF-17 that has many years to go before it establishes itself. but if true then some people who decided against a JF-17 2 seater version need to be pulled out of their seats or beds and then beaten with a spoon until they drop dead.
to overcome that issue

you shouldn't replace an irrelevant expensive trainer with another expensive irrelevant trainer so that your pilot can fly JF-17. I hope the route is from F-7 PG to the flight simulator and then JF-17 not via F-16. if thats the case then its an insult to F-16 pilot that he has to degrade himself to a Pak/ China aircraft that is not even out of its infancy.

yet again I am struggling to keep the expletives bursting out of my mouth for the scumbags who decided against the JF-17 2 seat at its concept and only have a small plastic model to show off.
@MastanKhan brother, is it true that we are burning out F-16 flight time so that we can fly JF-17? what is the first word that comes to your mind?


its a matter of opinion nothing delusional. American military hardware is an industrial benchmark but if China's clone shows the exact results in the tests then I dont see any problem.

Hi,

To prove that the JF 17 is the very best---under the circumstances---paf has F 16 pilots switch over to the JF 17 aircraft.

Better pilots----less chance of error---good flight record---better understanding of the aircraft.

But sitting at 60 aircraft as of now is a problem---. The numbers should have been 110 by now.

 

[niaz]

The beam is scanned by mechanically moving the whole array.

Beam is not scanned.
It is scattered.

@niaz

You have lifted many parts from keypublishing forum and presented them as your own.
AESA Vs Phased Array

Shame on you, because exact sentences came from Hindu Indian forumites.
You do not know the ABC of wave length.

Hon Sir,

No one can claim that all his knowledge has been gained from his “Mother’s womb”. Most of what we know is learnt from books written by somebody else. There are very few engineers /designers who do original research in a specific field, but these findings would be published in a research paper and probably patented if commercially useful. Only original research I ever did was when I wrote my M.Sc. Dissertation on ‘Channelling & slugging in fluidised beds in gas solid systems’. No good for posting in a Defence Forum.

Of course I read Key publishing books and many others besides; including Airforces Monthly, Flight, Combat Aircrafts etc. if and when I can get hold of these. Anything that I post would have information obtained from somewhere else. In case of technical matters, occasionally I cut & paste to avoid needless rewriting. I was trying to say that main difference between AESA & traditional radar such as that of F-16 is that dish moves in the latter case and that by installing AESA on an old fighter would not necessarily make it as competent as modern fighter without AESA.

I have never even heard of ‘Hindu Indian forumites’. Who are they? If you find exact wording written by somebody else, it could be that the person you are referring to also took it from the same source that I did and / or by coincidence used the same words to describe something similar.

I am a Process Engineer; during my professional career, I have always referred to and used ‘Perry’s Chemical Engineers Handbook’ in my calculations and quoted the formulas word by word in my articles. Does it mean I should die many times over due to shame?

By the way, do you mean to say that all the material in your posts is the original information generated your research work?

It would have been sufficient that say that I was wrong and I would not hesitate a moment accepting that you know a lot more about AESA Radar than I do. I however take exception to the remark “Shame on you”. In a scholarly forum, insulting someone you do not know from Adam for minor infractions is considered uncouth behaviour.

One does not have to be disagreeable to disagree; but then one’s behaviour is strongly affected but one’s upbringing.

 

[niaz]

Presenting exact sentences as your own, without giving credit to original author is known as plagiarism.
You were also in a position to quote these sources, instead of passing them as your own.
Something which you never did either.

This is plain & simple reasoning to refute your above post which is still short of appropriate logic in your defense.

Now do me a fav & do not come back for more in your defense on this.
Word to the wise should suffice.

I also have academic qualification, which may far exceed that of others, yet never describe or display them.
On forums, people judge you by what you write, and not by M.Sc degree certificates which could be false too.

I reckon its enough to deliver some sense.

Sir,

What you think of me is of little consequence. I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. I consider it beneath me to argue with people lacking common decency & decorum.

 

[Viper0011.]

Paf should stop any further purchase of the F 16's. With the availability of the J 10B with aesa---there a=is no reason for the Paf to go any further with the F 16 than where it is..

If the jets come under FMS, those are free......so IMO, still an awesome deal for the money. The Radars may be costly for now, but in the next 2-4 years, just like any other tech, you'd be able to find an AESA for the -16s export customers, or through a European country. The PAF used the French targeting pod for decades, similarly, a Western radar can be acquired later through the US or by US's permissions.

I still think that free -16's are a HUGE force multiplier without the expensive cost, and those serve a huge purpose in Pakistan's defense.

 

[MilSpec]

If the jets come under FMS, those are free......so IMO, still an awesome deal for the money. The Radars may be costly for now, but in the next 2-4 years, just like any other tech, you'd be able to find an AESA for the -16s export customers, or through a European country. The PAF used the French targeting pod for decades, similarly, a Western radar can be acquired later through the US or by US's permissions.

I still think the free -16's are a HUGE force multiplier without the expensive cost, and those serve a huge purpose in Pakistan's defense.

do you understand the difference between FMS and EDA??

When did FMS become free? It stands for Foreign Military Sales, not free military store...

 

[MastanKhan]

Presenting exact sentences as your own, without giving credit to original author is known as plagiarism.
You were also in a position to quote these sources, instead of passing them as your own.
Something which you never did either.

This is plain & simple reasoning to refute your above post which is still short of appropriate logic in your defense.

Now do me a fav & do not come back for more in your defense on this.
Word to the wise should suffice.

I also have academic qualification, which may far exceed that of others, yet never describe or display them.
On forums, people judge you by what you write, and not by M.Sc degree certificates which could be false too.

I reckon its enough to deliver some sense.

@WebMaster @Manticore @Irfan Baloch @Oscar

How dare this arshole disrespect the most respectable Pakistani member of this board----what's up Farooqui---lost your ballz somewhere

 

[airmarshal]

This news regarding new 18 F-16s below. Is it about 18 F-16s Pakistan has or 18 new Pakistan intends to buy? The news report does not seem to make clear.

Report: US Transfers Combat Aircrafts, Trainer Jets, Armored Carriers to Pakistan - Breitbart

The CRS reportedly revealed that “Pakistan has either made full payment or will make payments from its national funds towards the purchase of 18 new F-16C/D Block 52 Fighting Falcon combat aircraft worth $1.43 billion.”


That purchase includes “F-16 armaments including 500 AMRAAM air-to-air missiles; 1,450 2,000-pound bombs; 500 JDAM Tail Kits for gravity bombs; and 1,600 Enhanced Paveway laser-guided kits” at a cost of $629 million, according to The Economic Times.