PAF Should Stop Purchase of Any New F 16's

[Irfan Baloch]

Let's suppose if PAF opts AESA Upgrade for Laraka Shaheens and a few more goodies for them in coming days?

What if the US-IRAN Deal goes well and Iran starts receiving western goods?

what does it have to do with our Fighter procurement program?

Hi,

Paf should stop any further purchase of the F 16's. With the availability of the J 10B with aesa---there a=is no reason for the Paf to go any further with the F 16 than where it is.

The F 16's have served their purpose well---it has been a great workhorse for the Pakistani defence forces----but it does not make any sense to decline the J 10B---.

Aesa radar is a game changer for any fighting force----it is a massive force multiplier---. All the weapons that the J 10 would need to use are being used by the JF 17's. With a 1000 TR modules---the Chinese aesa is supposedly as good as the sabr aesa for the F 16----sabr aesa is not available to pkistan.

This change should be made keeping in view the drama that was created by Pres Obama regarding Osama Bin Laden.

It is time for the Paf to change directions. The cost of the J 10 would be slightly less than the F 16 but the weapons systems equally potent and a radar far exceeding the one on the F 16.

It will also be making a statement to the U S---you have played us for long---it seems like your and our interests are not in the same parallels anymore---you have used every opportunity to slam us at every turn and corner for mistakes and errors in judgement that you could blame on us---.

Maybe you can have a partner in Iran----but for now----let us step away for a little while so that we can look at our issues and problems without any pressure from you and you can look at the your concerns without and attachment with us.

agree in principle but are we not frog jumping to J-31 instead? wont that be a better option? hopefully its trial and serial production is not too far off? I hope that J-31 will give us everything that J-10B has to offer and some.(unless its twin engine scares our single engine sect of PAF)

 

[Tipu7]

what does it have to do with our Fighter procurement program?


agree in principle but are we not frog jumping to J-31 instead? wont that be a better option? hopefully its trial and serial production is not too far off? I hope that J-31 will give us everything that J-10B has to offer and some.(unless its twin engine scares our single engine sect of PAF)

J31 is atleast a decade away. what will we keep doing in these 10 years? while we need urgent replacement of Mirages and production of Thunders is not fast enough. we need to fill this gap with more F16s and induct J10b/c too

 

[graphican]

Hi,eption

They are hard testing the J 10 B with aesa----the F 16's will stay in service----but it must not be the mainstay of paf.

As for the J 31---it is a minimum of a 10 years away. THe JF 17 with aesa will be a very potent aircraft but the paf needs to put its focus on the J 10 B +++

I think the factor which will help us decide between J-10 and F-16 is our threat perception. If we expect war is looming within next 3 years, we will go for F-16s but if we think we have enough installed capacity to take care of enemy for the next 3 years, J-10 will become the platform of choice.

I am in the favor of J-10 because of many reasons but it will be a new platform which will demand its due time for human and technical infrastructure to get installed. It will be a new platform for pilots to learn and develop tactics and combinations in offensive and defensive strategies. A great platform but a new platform - asking for its due time.

Our threat perception from India is higher than usual. If we have capacity to order 18-36 fighter jets, I see F-16 filling the gap earlier than J-10s and thus they might become the platform of choice. All my humble opinion.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

J31 is atleast a decade away. what will we keep doing in these 10 years? while we need urgent replacement of Mirages and production of Thunders is not fast enough. we need to fill this gap with more F16s and induct J10b/c too

superman,
for Mirage III, IV we have JF-17s..

J-10B is touted for front line which is covered by F-16s and will be complimented by newer blocks of JF-17s. if you want to Justify J10-B then dont mention Mirages
if production of Thunders is not fast enough then it is better to open another production line and also request China to churn them out as well instead of jumping for J10-B

not sure where you have the 10 year time delay of J-31 from but these 10 years can be covered easily by existing F-16 fleet and the newer blocks of JF-17s as they will come out. except if you are suggesting raising half a dozen new front line squadrons in next few years then yes I agree with you that J-10B will be needed

 

[IrbiS]

what does it have to do with our Fighter procurement program?

As Mastan said, we should get J-10s and and partenering with Iran so I asked:

J-10 will cost money and time, if you got money then why not simply upgrade the Shaheens clean and easy.

If things go smooth with U.S, don't think that Iran will necesserily need our partnership

 

[Irfan Baloch]

As Mastan said, we should get J-10s and and partenering with Iran so I asked:

J-10 will cost money and time, if you got money then why not simply upgrade the Shaheens clean and easy.

If things go smooth with U.S, don't think that Iran will necesserily need our partnership

US-Iran normalisation wont happen even if Israelis and Saudis suddenly warm up to the idea because republicans hate the idea and so do the Iranian regime, it will need to take a U -turn of its policy which doesn't seem to be in site.

coming back to the topic, I cant care less how much KSA or Israelis feel butt-hurt about Iranians and if attacking a mock-up US aircraft career really helps such idea.

J-10B seems to be good on paper to fill the F-16 boots (or wings in this case) it has to do a lot in terms of delivering what it is touted to be.

 

[Hell hound]

superman,
for Mirage III, IV we have JF-17s..

J-10B is touted for front line which is covered by F-16s and will be complimented by newer blocks of JF-17s. if you want to Justify J10-B then dont mention Mirages
if production of Thunders is not fast enough then it is better to open another production line and also request China to churn them out as well instead of jumping for J10-B

not sure where you have the 10 year time delay of J-31 from but these 10 years can be covered easily by existing F-16 fleet and the newer blocks of JF-17s as they will come out. except if you are suggesting raising half a dozen new front line squadrons in next few years then yes I agree with you that J-10B will be needed

sir jee mirages are delta wing aircraft which enable it to fly better at high altitude and they can carry more ordinance and fuel then conventional wings aircraft but delta bleed high amount of energy in turn thus making delta wing crafts perfect for strike missions but may cause some problem in air superiority configuration. don't you think it will be good if we replace mirage with any other delta wing craft as they are our strike fighters.

 

[OrionHunter]

Our generals should stop their love afair with yoo ess of aaey

Money makes the mare go!

Seriously, the US of A have got you by the short handle. There are 76 F-16s - too many to phase out to be replaced by the J-10 even if you stop ordering for more. It won't be cost effective too. Thus, it's not gonna happen anytime soon. Probably by 2025 or so when you'll start phasing out the F-16 finally and go for the J-31 instead.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

don't you think it will be good if we replace mirage with any other delta wing craft as they are our strike fighters.

YES

if the entire consideration for J10-B is solely on the bases of its similarity with delta wing of Mirages. although as we know it is the JF-17s that are replacing their role.

 

[IrbiS]

US-Iran normalisation wont happen even if Israelis and Saudis suddenly warm up to the idea because republicans hate the idea and so do the Iranian regime, it will need to take a U -turn of its policy which doesn't seem to be in site.

coming back to the topic, I cant care less how much KSA or Israelis feel butt-hurt about Iranians and if attacking a mock-up US aircraft career really helps such idea.

J-10B seems to be good on paper to fill the F-16 boots (or wings in this case) it has to do a lot in terms of delivering what it is touted to be.

Despite Iran's harsh stance, it was expected and they really need some space in International Market

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Money makes the mare go!
Probably by 2025 or so when you'll start phasing out the F-16 finally and go for the J-31 instead.

by then I wont even give a flying ding dong, will be ranting on my grand children and taking my medicine.

 

[Mohsin123]

F16 is war proven bird and very well known for PAF.

Nobody is arguing withe the affectivity of F-16. Before F-16 was F86 Sabre, and before that P-51 Mustang, more war proven than F-16. But there is a limit to an airframe and the amount of upgrades it can recieve. The US has already stopped making parts for F-16 and soon they will stop the production lines , so do you think that PAF will be able to maintain its fleet of aging F-16 well after 2020. At that point we will not get parts not because of embargos but unavailabilities, and we cannot even make a landing gear for F-16. Why do you think that there are no blocks of the viper after 60? Tha airframe has reached its upgradation limit. And dont think for one second that kamra will produce a block 70 in the future.
After 2020 our enemies will have a big fleet of 4+ generation aircrafts just waiting to do another 1971 on us, along with advanced air dominance 4+ generation aircrafts.

P.S. it will remain in TOP 10 after 2020 but only in history books.

 

[Immanuel]

For people to say the Chinese AESA is equivalent to the F-16 SABR AESA is delusional. SABR is a 3rd gen AESA developed after 20 years of operational experience using AESA's the field.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

superman,
for Mirage III, IV we have JF-17s..

J-10B is touted for front line which is covered by F-16s and will be complimented by newer blocks of JF-17s. if you want to Justify J10-B then dont mention Mirages
if production of Thunders is not fast enough then it is better to open another production line and also request China to churn them out as well instead of jumping for J10-B

not sure where you have the 10 year time delay of J-31 from but these 10 years can be covered easily by existing F-16 fleet and the newer blocks of JF-17s as they will come out. except if you are suggesting raising half a dozen new front line squadrons in next few years then yes I agree with you that J-10B will be needed

Sir,
The issue is if J-10's or JF-17's are going to replace the Mirage iii/v's along with the F-7's then at what rate should these be produced and how to get the pilots and technical staff trained at that pace.

We all know that currently PAF fighter pilots are first trained on F-16's and then they are sent to JF-17 because the later does not have a twin seat version.

Now please put yourself in the shoes of PAF and see how they can expedite the training and procurement of new aircraft (JF-17 & J-10).

IMO
There are a few possibilities:
JF-17 B and J-10 duel seat fighters are procured but making them would take time. (25 aircraft per type / annum).

Purchase T-50 golden eagle / FA-50 but again the production rate would be some where around 25 aircraft / annum.

Purchase already built aircraft to fulfill the numbers quickly. The only viable option is F-16's any block. (100+ immidiately)

 

[Irfan Baloch]

We all know that currently PAF fighter pilots are first trained on F-16's and then they are sent to JF-17 because the later does not have a twin seat version.

Now please put yourself in the shoes of PAF and see how they can expedite the training and procurement of new aircraft (JF-17 & J-10).

well i didnt know that if our pilots are training on a much expensive much limited much needed aircraft like F-16 and then go to a JF-17 that has many years to go before it establishes itself. but if true then some people who decided against a JF-17 2 seater version need to be pulled out of their seats or beds and then beaten with a spoon until they drop dead.
to overcome that issue

you shouldn't replace an irrelevant expensive trainer with another expensive irrelevant trainer so that your pilot can fly JF-17. I hope the route is from F-7 PG to the flight simulator and then JF-17 not via F-16. if thats the case then its an insult to F-16 pilot that he has to degrade himself to a Pak/ China aircraft that is not even out of its infancy.

yet again I am struggling to keep the expletives bursting out of my mouth for the scumbags who decided against the JF-17 2 seat at its concept and only have a small plastic model to show off.
@MastanKhan brother, is it true that we are burning out F-16 flight time so that we can fly JF-17? what is the first word that comes to your mind?

For people to say the Chinese AESA is equivalent to the F-16 SABR AESA is delusional. SABR is a 3rd gen AESA developed after 20 years of operational experience using AESA's the field.

its a matter of opinion nothing delusional. American military hardware is an industrial benchmark but if China's clone shows the exact results in the tests then I dont see any problem.