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PAF J-10C News, Updates and Discussion

Objectively speaking, Rafale is among the most beautiful jets ever made. It leaves the J-10 in the dust.
Objectively speaking, every person's beauty standard is different. What is beauty to you maybe is ugly to others. You can only say in your own opinion that Rafale's beauty leaves J-10C in the dust. I'm sure most Indian agree with you though. 😉
 
JF-17 phases out F-7, Mirage III/V. J-10C phases out F-16.
Hopefully there will be more cooperation between Pakistan and China.

Pakistan needs to reform:
1) domestic politics
2) poverty reduction
3) job opportunities
4) Need to improve economy

Even that tiny country called Taiwan has a larger economy than Pakistan's.

We should learn from China and Taiwan.
 
I think this Marcus guy in the video is probably from Taiwan. His credibility goes down the drain in the beginning of the video saying J-10C use Russian engine RD-93MA. 😆 I would've forgive his mistake if he was saying it was AL-31FN. But RD-93MA ?? 🤔

I thought in that section he was talking about JF-17. I used 1.5x play speed. As soon as I noticed it was basic info stuff and lots of boring history of sales and who uses what, I paid 50% attention while writing the summary at the same time lol.

I don't think he's Taiwanese? Accent sounds more mainland but could be. Many Taiwanese don't have a strong mingnan accent.

Hopefully there will be more cooperation between Pakistan and China.

Pakistan needs to reform:
1) domestic politics
2) poverty reduction
3) job opportunities
4) Need to improve economy

Even that tiny country called Taiwan has a larger economy than Pakistan's.

We should learn from China and Taiwan.

Lol bro Taiwan is as much a country as California is if California voted some rogue super liberal guy who then used military force supported by Russia and China to break from the US.

It does not make it legitimate and since only a handful of countries consider Taiwan as deserving more recognition, there's how many countries that recognize it's status as a country?

Taiwan has never been a country in the entire history of earth. Many people forget or not aware of this. Taiwan was always a province of China, Imperial China in the past and then ROC and even now during PRC history of China, Taiwan is still regarded as a Chinese province even by the USA itself. USA itself does not recognize Taiwan as a country. It is not like it has always been independent country and suddenly claimed by China like all the western media and indian propaganda is presenting it as.

Anyway though I know what you mean. Even I sometimes use the term country when describing Taiwan since it's easier and quicker to.

But I'm sure you know as well what I wrote. It's just for the benefit of those who may be that ignorant to believe that Taiwan was and is a country. It has never been one no more than Zurich has been an independent country from Switzerland. But if Russians supported some movement and armed them so well during a time of Swiss weakness, is it fair? Anyway with those boys strength is everything so be strong.
 
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I thought in that section he was talking about JF-17. I used 1.5x play speed. As soon as I noticed it was basic info stuff and lots of boring history of sales and who uses what, I paid 50% attention while writing the summary at the same time lol.

I don't think he's Taiwanese? Accent sounds more mainland but could be. Many Taiwanese don't have a strong mingnan accent.



Lol bro Taiwan is as much a country as California is if California voted some rogue super liberal guy who then used military force supported by Russia and China to break from the US.

It does not make it legitimate and since only a handful of countries consider Taiwan as deserving more recognition, there's how many countries that recognize it's status as a country?

Taiwan has never been a country in the entire history of earth. Many people forget or not aware of this. Taiwan was always a province of China, Imperial China in the past and then ROC and even now during PRC history of China, Taiwan is still regarded as a Chinese province even by the USA itself. USA itself does not recognize Taiwan as a country. It is not like it has always been independent country and suddenly claimed by China like all the western media and indian propaganda is presenting it as.

Anyway though I know what you mean. Even I sometimes use the term country when describing Taiwan since it's easier and quicker to.

But I'm sure you know as well what I wrote. It's just for the benefit of those who may be that ignorant to believe that Taiwan was and is a country. It has never been one no more than Zurich has been an independent country from Switzerland. But if Russians supported some movement and armed them so well during a time of Swiss weakness, is it fair? Anyway with those boys strength is everything so be strong.
Sorry, I forgot about that. I had to quickly get my message across. Taiwan is a renegade province of China.

Even Taiwan has a larger economy than Pakistan. Taiwan has a population of 23 million people but a nominal GDP of $700 billion.
Pakistan has a population of 240 million people but a nominal GDP of 340 billion.

That is what I meant. Pakistan should learn from China and Taiwan.

But also I have to be fair too, The West invested a lot in Taiwan.

But the West did not do the same to Pakistan.
 
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Sorry, I forgot about that. I had to quickly get my message across. Taiwan is a renegade province of China.

Even Taiwan has a larger economy than Pakistan. Taiwan has a population of 23 million people but a nominal GDP of $700 billion.
Pakistan has a population of 240 million people but a nominal GDP of 340 billion.

That is what I meant. Pakistan should learn from China and Taiwan.

But also I have to be fair too, The West invested a lot in Taiwan.

But the West did not do the same to Pakistan.

That's quite true but it's not just the West. For example mainland China secured more investment from Japan, Hong Kong and places like Taiwan, Singapore, and South Korea than China received from the West.

People think only the West has money. At the moment East Asia has more money than the combined West. We hold over 30 trillion US dollars in the form of debt and equity of Western... well everything. Just from being a creditor and owner (even at least partial owner) of many Western companies and assets.

Today, Japan + China + South Korea + Taiwan + Singapore is already bigger than USA or the entire EU. Once we account for PPP, China's intentionally deflated currency, and the fact that China and Japan own so much of the USA not even counting equity, the difference is even more massive.

Now the question really is, how does a country attract investment and also become very productive. China was both attractive to investment and extremely productive and industrial. The cost is hard work and this work by even hardworking western standards was epic. Backbreaking hardwork and saving for at least three whole generations close to 2 billion people cycling through this three generations to turn this around. They also saved and invested that money very well. Diversified and gambled well with good payoffs and returns. Invested in the future and useful things. Not blowing it on lamborghinis like some new rich. However China's newer generations are accustomed to comfort BUT they are smart and also work hard! This at least has been passed on to this generation and while they spend more, nationalism has trended to China's favor as well.

I do not think South Asians work quite as hard overall! many smarter and more hardworking south asians than east asians but as a whole there really is quite a cultural and maybe even environmental and genetic difference that contribute to work ethic patterns and general social behavior. Japan is excellent example. China is only beginning this journey and while maybe only 20% to 30% of citizens are at Japan's level of productivity and hard working, it's already a significant difference to many other neighbors. I have worked in China, Singapore, and Australia. The difference is huge. Singapore easily top of these three followed closely by China. This is just medium level stuff. With high tier industries, China's work ethic would beat Singapore and it is to the point of being too straining. But this is also why there is progress.

Taiwan now receives much more mainland investment than US investment. Japan also invested in China more than USA. Germany roughly the same as USA during those 1980s to 2000s era. Taiwan too. Can Pakistan make itself attractive to investment and make use of everything? Make itself productive, properly use investment, learn, adapt, change, progress and work very hard for next 100 years? China had bigger population advantage but this is as much a problem as it is a strength. There is absolutely no such thing as population dividend when it is mostly unruly, unintelligent, uneducated, disorganized, and complains a lot. China started with 80% of its population like that. Authoritarianism worked well for China because luckily we had good leaders that wielded that power more well than they did poorly.

I think there are so many things for other now poor and chaotic countries to begin the journey. It's like the conditions a planet needs to evolve intelligent life. It require billions of factors working together and net effect in that direction over time. It cannot even be allowed to take that long as disrupting events from negative forces come on a cycle too.

After China, not a single country has even gone from poverty to middle income. African countries have improved a lot but not at middle income level. Thailand, Malaysia and some others were already middle income before China even got to middle income status. China's the only one to have done it after Taiwan, South Korea and Singapore and those guys didn't have many sanctions and bans to deal with since the 1960s like China has had to. They also had a much smaller population which is easier to convert.

India will never get to above middle income unless it is the will of all the major powers. It isn't simply a work hard and it will come formula. And even that, India and lots of now poor nations do not have that could compare to what China and South Korea had to go through.

But Pakistan has one advantage, China's favor. It isn't attracting Chinese investment though only geopolitically derived investments and agreements. To start the journey, Pakistan would at least need lots of foreign investment from major economic powers. Since EU and USA will not be involved with that, China may but so far it has not shown interest. After all, China is nowhere near as rich as the western nations on a per capita basis and has a bit more work left to do to get to that level.

Throughout history, wealth has concentrated in only some parts of the world and never spread throughout it. However India and Pakistan were a part of those wealthy long in the past before the British and Europeans stole almost everything. So clearly South Asia had the stuff it takes in the past but it's much harder for pauper to climb to billionaire than other direction right? The building of momentum to regain that is much more difficult to potentially impossible. India really should demand Britain not only apologize but pay back even half of the damage they did and what they stole from India. Without the British involved in Asia and colonialism, half our current troubles would not even exist. Of course they would never do such a thing now they have the riches and power. And India... goodness what has become of you in the last ten years. Imperialism changed and destroyed India not just physically but ruined its psyche too not just for indians but even neighbors. Anyway that's another story.

I think no country will follow that path unless they first begin with internal structural and cultural change. South Korea, Singapore, and Taiwan were fiercely authoritarian and had reform after reform to start this journey. East Asians are a bit more practical and realistic, less delusional about things and probably this helped in finding the problems and knowing what the true problems are before starting the reforms and structural changes to begin the journey. Otherwise you will never compete and be appealing for money. Money does make the world go around even if it is not everything, but without money everything is also unavailable.
 
That's quite true but it's not just the West. For example mainland China secured more investment from Japan, Hong Kong and places like Taiwan, Singapore, and South Korea than China received from the West.

People think only the West has money. At the moment East Asia has more money than the combined West. We hold over 30 trillion US dollars in the form of debt and equity of Western... well everything. Just from being a creditor and owner (even at least partial owner) of many Western companies and assets.

Today, Japan + China + South Korea + Taiwan + Singapore is already bigger than USA or the entire EU. Once we account for PPP, China's intentionally deflated currency, and the fact that China and Japan own so much of the USA not even counting equity, the difference is even more massive.

Now the question really is, how does a country attract investment and also become very productive. China was both attractive to investment and extremely productive and industrial. The cost is hard work and this work by even hardworking western standards was epic. Backbreaking hardwork and saving for at least three whole generations close to 2 billion people cycling through this three generations to turn this around. They also saved and invested that money very well. Diversified and gambled well with good payoffs and returns. Invested in the future and useful things. Not blowing it on lamborghinis like some new rich. However China's newer generations are accustomed to comfort BUT they are smart and also work hard! This at least has been passed on to this generation and while they spend more, nationalism has trended to China's favor as well.

I do not think South Asians work quite as hard overall! many smarter and more hardworking south asians than east asians but as a whole there really is quite a cultural and maybe even environmental and genetic difference that contribute to work ethic patterns and general social behavior. Japan is excellent example. China is only beginning this journey and while maybe only 20% to 30% of citizens are at Japan's level of productivity and hard working, it's already a significant difference to many other neighbors. I have worked in China, Singapore, and Australia. The difference is huge. Singapore easily top of these three followed closely by China. This is just medium level stuff. With high tier industries, China's work ethic would beat Singapore and it is to the point of being too straining. But this is also why there is progress.

Taiwan now receives much more mainland investment than US investment. Japan also invested in China more than USA. Germany roughly the same as USA during those 1980s to 2000s era. Taiwan too. Can Pakistan make itself attractive to investment and make use of everything? Make itself productive, properly use investment, learn, adapt, change, progress and work very hard for next 100 years? China had bigger population advantage but this is as much a problem as it is a strength. There is absolutely no such thing as population dividend when it is mostly unruly, unintelligent, uneducated, disorganized, and complains a lot. China started with 80% of its population like that. Authoritarianism worked well for China because luckily we had good leaders that wielded that power more well than they did poorly.

I think there are so many things for other now poor and chaotic countries to begin the journey. It's like the conditions a planet needs to evolve intelligent life. It require billions of factors working together and net effect in that direction over time. It cannot even be allowed to take that long as disrupting events from negative forces come on a cycle too.

After China, not a single country has even gone from poverty to middle income. African countries have improved a lot but not at middle income level. Thailand, Malaysia and some others were already middle income before China even got to middle income status. China's the only one to have done it after Taiwan, South Korea and Singapore and those guys didn't have many sanctions and bans to deal with since the 1960s like China has had to. They also had a much smaller population which is easier to convert.

India will never get to above middle income unless it is the will of all the major powers. It isn't simply a work hard and it will come formula. And even that, India and lots of now poor nations do not have that could compare to what China and South Korea had to go through.

But Pakistan has one advantage, China's favor. It isn't attracting Chinese investment though only geopolitically derived investments and agreements. To start the journey, Pakistan would at least need lots of foreign investment from major economic powers. Since EU and USA will not be involved with that, China may but so far it has not shown interest. After all, China is nowhere near as rich as the western nations on a per capita basis and has a bit more work left to do to get to that level.

Throughout history, wealth has concentrated in only some parts of the world and never spread throughout it. However India and Pakistan were a part of those wealthy long in the past before the British and Europeans stole almost everything. So clearly South Asia had the stuff it takes in the past but it's much harder for pauper to climb to billionaire than other direction right? The building of momentum to regain that is much more difficult to potentially impossible. India really should demand Britain not only apologize but pay back even half of the damage they did and what they stole from India. Without the British involved in Asia and colonialism, half our current troubles would not even exist. Of course they would never do such a thing now they have the riches and power. And India... goodness what has become of you in the last ten years. Imperialism changed and destroyed India not just physically but ruined its psyche too not just for indians but even neighbors. Anyway that's another story.

I think no country will follow that path unless they first begin with internal structural and cultural change. South Korea, Singapore, and Taiwan were fiercely authoritarian and had reform after reform to start this journey. East Asians are a bit more practical and realistic, less delusional about things and probably this helped in finding the problems and knowing what the true problems are before starting the reforms and structural changes to begin the journey. Otherwise you will never compete and be appealing for money. Money does make the world go around even if it is not everything, but without money everything is also unavailable.
Thank you for your insightful post. You raised some valid arguments.
 
What I have observed so far over 2 decades
and noticed how things are at work in US. Everything is dumb down. People are stupid relative to other nations. I wondered, what is keeping this system successful. US army is known for enlisting window licking retards, still they are able to train and win wars. People from all over the world are coming here and making fortunes. One reason I can tell is, There is no such thing as stupid idea in US. No barrier for those that are brave enough to test new ideas.

Hi,

Wonderful a people that the americans are---they have miserably failed with managing pakistan---and for what----36 F16's---36 fckng lousy F16's that would not have made a hair move on the merican forehead---and yet they chose to do so.

The blamed pakistan for all their failures in AFG and made it their whipping boy---. Such a shame to do such a thing to an ally that would go all out to make the americans happy. Oh well.

First the Tomahawk---then the JF17 and now the J10's---and we may learn in a few years about a stealth helicopter---.

Only if Pakistan had opted for Yemen crisis---it would be militarily and financially secure to stand a major crisis.
 
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Pakistan should buy opium from Afghanistan turn it into heroin and sell it to rss in India.
Results: - good relations with afghan warlords
- billions $$$ yearly income which can be used to buy more J-10 and other toys
- rss get addicted to heroin and Indian society has huge drug problem which destroys their society. Rss will be druggies and won’t pose a threat to us
Triple win for us. We can afford Su 35, Eurofighter, j20, j16, f-16 with the revenue we make off Indians
 
一开始主要只是谈论购买的历史,PAF 购买 J-10C 是为了响应 IAF 购买阵风,然后谈论无聊的东西,比如关于它的基本知识能够投掷炸弹,没有什么有趣或信息是最基本的。讨论了哪些国家订购了阵风,以及阵风最近如何因达索为阵风进行的升级而获得许多合同,以及由于达索加大力度改进它而出口击败欧洲战斗机,而欧洲财团基本上放慢了升级的速度。

然后讨论了能够使用 PL-15E(出口版)的 J-10CP 以及 PAF 正在使用的中国 AWACS 如何最有可能实现 CEC。他谈到 Meteor 非常强大,NEZ 非常出色,速度非常快。他说阵风的强项是电子战。在练习中轻松击败 Su-35。

他说,J-10CP 到巴基斯坦空军的出口价格可能是每架 5000 万美元。这还不到阵风出口单价的一半。这个价格显然包括武器包和零件的供应和维护。这与中国空军为 J-10 支付的价格基本相同。所以基本没有盈利。J-10CE的价格实际上更高,但巴基斯坦是“一带一路”的一部分,是“一带一路”的亲密盟友,也是“一带一路”路线的重要地缘政治盟友,友好政府和国家的安全对中国也很重要。

巴基斯坦目前的经济希望看起来一点也不乐观。在这种经济条件下,他们无法支付超过 15 亿美元购买大约 30 架 J-10CP。关于巴基斯坦希望为 CPEC 谈判贷款的谈判和北京同意将巴基斯坦的还款从数年推迟到无限期。

谈论从出口赚来的钱和历史。无聊的基础知识。

休息都是与全球政治变化和其他国家的军售有关的无聊无关的东西。

基本上整件事都没有什么值得看/听的。没有新的或有趣的信息。对购买原因和武器销售历史的猜测充满了猜测,比如与对军事材料和销售一无所知的人交谈。
此人是法轮功大纪元宣传之人https://www.epochtimes.com/gb/21/8/22/n13179292.htm
 
The goal is to post and discuss all things J10 CP in one thread (besides just the 23rd March fly past, two have already landed in Pak 2 days ago by the way). Mods do what you may with this thread in terms of placement and access on the site.
 

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