PAF J-10C News, Updates and Discussion

[MastanKhan]

For those with limited military background will not understand military culture. It is very different from civilian culture. So having your kid sit on a tank or stand next to an artillery gun and take a shot is not wasting funds. These weapons and their men are constantly tested. And likelihood is that a child standing there getting some thrills is not adding to the exchequer bill. Weapons and rounds are constantly tested. And just clicking on a trigger is 5% of what goes into firing that weapon without a failure. So though the kid fired it, the crew had to run through their motions to make sure the weapon operated. That training is essential.
The part that is truly disappointing is that less and less kids like us with this level of experience and access go on to join the military. Military in large measure is about tradition, culture and generational involvement. It is this multigenerational involvement that keep the institution strong otherwise the stock becomes weak. That for me is the bigger tragedy here than a kid taking a shot. Also this is exactly why our fathers and uncles do this to us, so we would develop the love and joy for the arms. When we don’t join their efforts and our obligations both fall short.

Hi,

If the kids did not follow into their father's footsteps---there would be no soldiers.

 

[Aesterix]

I am still doubtful there will be any participation by J 10C in PAF Colours on the 22rd March parade.

 

[MastanKhan]

no brother its not about being better or worse as this is not a competition. I think the reason for that is more to do with the fact that ppl move on with the expansion of one's horizon. Plus the army has also decided to expand its stock n move away, some wt from its traditional recruiting grounds.
now we see lots of ppl from sind n even baluchistan in the army which is good for the army and country as a whole

Hi,

Well then there will come a time that the kids of those sindhis and baluchis would be puling the trigger of the big guns.

It don't change son---it is just a matter of time when the children of new recruits follow the footsteps of their fathers.

 

[Reichmarshal]

Hi,

Well then there will come a time that the kids of those sindhis and baluchis would be puling the trigger of the big guns.

It don't change son---it is just a matter of time when the children of new recruits follow the footsteps of their fathers.

Sindhi now we see second gen. Officers n enlisted men. Their 2 three star gen. Officer's in PA today.....excellent work done by PA starting in the 80s, paying dividends today.
Baluchistan initiative was taken by gen. Kiyani. N right now their around 40000 baluch officers n men in PA alone.

 

[The Eagle]

For F-16, I was told by a credible member here that the F-35 was denied

My point was about F-16 being denied.

 

[Big_bud]

For those with limited military background will not understand military culture. It is very different from civilian culture. So having your kid sit on a tank or stand next to an artillery gun and take a shot is not wasting funds. These weapons and their men are constantly tested. And likelihood is that a child standing there getting some thrills is not adding to the exchequer bill. Weapons and rounds are constantly tested. And just clicking on a trigger is 5% of what goes into firing that weapon without a failure. So though the kid fired it, the crew had to run through their motions to make sure the weapon operated. That training is essential.
The part that is truly disappointing is that less and less kids like us with this level of experience and access go on to join the military. Military in large measure is about tradition, culture and generational involvement. It is this multigenerational involvement that keep the institution strong otherwise the stock becomes weak. That for me is the bigger tragedy here than a kid taking a shot. Also this is exactly why our fathers and uncles do this to us, so we would develop the love and joy for the arms. When we don’t join their efforts and our obligations both fall short.

I have brigadiers, colonels, PAF engineers, pilots and more in my family. Such activities for family fun should be avoided, if the ammunition is to be used because of a use by date its better to properly make it a public PR acitivity which everyone can join.

 

[GriffinsRule]

I am still doubtful there will be any participation by J 10C in PAF Colours on the 22rd March parade.

Same

 

[Beast]

I am still doubtful there will be any participation by J 10C in PAF Colours on the 22rd March parade.

Do you mean the J-10C not joining PAF service or just the J-10C will not participate in the March parade?

 

[tphuang]

For F-16, I was told by a credible member here that the F-35 was denied

Of course F-35 is denied. The only Arabic country that was give permission to F-35 was UAE. They had to establish formal relationship with Israel in order to get that. Even so, so many conditions were placed on UAE that they ended up purchasing Rafale instead. Given Pakistan's close relationship with China, why would US allow export of F-35s to Pakistan? In fact, when will US allow F-35 export to any Muslim countries? Pakistan can sit around and wait a few decades for F-35 or it can start talking to China now about FC-31/J-35 export down the line. Since it's not developed yet, this won't be ready for a while. But as they've shown with J-20, they should be able to develop 5th generation aircraft on schedule.

Based on my calculation, China could allow FC-31 export to its closest allies by the end of this decade. That seems to me the only realistic 5th generation fighter jet option for Pakistan. Su-57 might be available by then for export, but it's only a little more stealthy than something like Rafale. If Pakistan ends up with FC-31 and IAF ends up with Su-57 and MCA, Pakistan will have a huge advantage.

I'm not saying China is Pakistan's solution for everything. But given how fast it's military industrial complex is improving, there is a reason why Pakistan military is going for Chinese solutions all 3 services.

 

[Raider 21]

Of course F-35 is denied. The only Arabic country that was give permission to F-35 was UAE. They had to establish formal relationship with Israel in order to get that. Even so, so many conditions were placed on UAE that they ended up purchasing Rafale instead. Given Pakistan's close relationship with China, why would US allow export of F-35s to Pakistan? In fact, when will US allow F-35 export to any Muslim countries? Pakistan can sit around and wait a few decades for F-35 or it can start talking to China now about FC-31/J-35 export down the line. Since it's not developed yet, this won't be ready for a while. But as they've shown with J-20, they should be able to develop 5th generation aircraft on schedule.

Based on my calculation, China could allow FC-31 export to its closest allies by the end of this decade. That seems to me the only realistic 5th generation fighter jet option for Pakistan. Su-57 might be available by then for export, but it's only a little more stealthy than something like Rafale. If Pakistan ends up with FC-31 and IAF ends up with Su-57 and MCA, Pakistan will have a huge advantage.

I'm not saying China is Pakistan's solution for everything. But given how fast it's military industrial complex is improving, there is a reason why Pakistan military is going for Chinese solutions all 3 services.

Understand this, the F-35 deal and Rafale deal are separate for UAEAF. Turkey was also initially under the F-35 blanket, as a "Muslim" country.

 

[tphuang]

Understand this, the F-35 deal and Rafale deal are separate for UAEAF. Turkey was also initially under the F-35 blanket, as a "Muslim" country.

Turkey is a NATO ally.

UAE found the terms of F-35 discussion so onerous that It suspended talks for induction of the aircraft.

UAE told the U.S. it will suspend talks on F-35 jets -Emirati official

The United Arab Emirates has informed the United States that it will suspend discussions to acquire F-35 fighter jets, a UAE official said on Tuesday, part of a $23 billion deal that also includes drones and other advanced munitions.

www.reuters.com

Again, UAE did not even get a chance to negotiate for F-35 until it normalized relations with Israel.

 

[Shotgunner51]

Based on my calculation, China could allow FC-31 export to its closest allies by the end of this decade. That seems to me the only realistic 5th generation fighter jet option for Pakistan. Su-57 might be available by then for export, but it's only a little more stealthy than something like Rafale. If Pakistan ends up with FC-31 and IAF ends up with Su-57 and MCA, Pakistan will have a huge advantage.

Based on my observation FC-31 was never a land-based jet nor was intended for PLAAF consumption, it's a naval jet from day one. We can continue FC-31 discussion in the following thread.

J-XY - maybe J-35 - next generation carrier-borne fighter

Very interesting development. If this bird manages to get fifth-generation avionics, genuine radar-absorbent material, airframe redesigns to reduce its RCS, and a new suite of AAMs, it might potentially come close to matching the performance of the AMCA in the far future. Not a bad start for a...

defence.pk

So on topic, PAF's next gen option is not confined to FC-31. There's a possibility that Turkey gets re-admitted into the F-35 program, and so is Pakistan (subject to India-US relationship). Other possible options are like Pakistan joining the TFX program (converging with AZM), PAC going solo on AZM, or PAC-SAC joint venture in land-based FC-31 (like JF-17 model).

 

[Beast]

Understand this, the F-35 deal and Rafale deal are separate for UAEAF. Turkey was also initially under the F-35 blanket, as a "Muslim" country.

Turkey is actually secular.

 

[raja786]

I don't think there's any done deal between Pakistan and China over J-10c as of yet, maybe in future or near future but nothing is signed. On 23rd March surely whole Squadron of Chinese J10s participating and that's all about it. Maybe some Chinese hardware will be stationed in different "areas".
And I got this info from a Rickshaw driver.

I would say keep an eye out on Pm visit to Russia and چیف visit to USA.

 

[Aesterix]

Do you mean the J-10C not joining PAF service or just the J-10C will not participate in the March parade?

Personally I am doubtful about both.
Apart from Sheikh Rasheed remarks, no other source has said it so far.