PAF J-10C News, Updates and Discussion

[siegecrossbow]

Well, those will come with their own issues. The nature of the business will not change. It still takes time to develop tactics & strategy after all the technical issues have been worked out.

That's the thing with all new revolutionary technology though. For the next two decades I think that limitations in AI will mean that aerial combat drones will be relegated to harassment/reconnaissance roles, much like light cavalry in the past. This is not a diss against A.I. combat drones/loyal wingman type though. They will be a vital part of future air forces.

 

[Readerdefence]

Hi one thing I’m pretty much sure if PAF is advertising PL15 with these jets 2/3 years they already been trained to fire these towards the adversary with using AESA radar
there is no point of flashing your card if you don’t know how to use it at the very first instance
and I believe IAF with Rafale will do the same not putting the fighter in the shed same goes with PAF & there is always something first to try with as being only two main adversary between IAF & PAF until unless something happens you never know who so the best in using AESA first time in war like scenario
rest assured PAF already been partnering with China for the sake of AESA & Pl15 scenario
thank you

 

[MastanKhan]

When we inducted the JFT @Mastan khan pointed out that induction and integration were 2 different issues and the time line for both was different. The fighter needs to undergo battle scenarios to assess its strengths and weaknesses and how to use it to its maximum advantage. This is what takes time. Based on this strategy is drawn for use of the fighter. Also it takes time for the fighter pilot to be confident enough to use the system in war against its enemies.
A
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Hi

JF 17 was our baby, and we had to nourish it and, teach it and make it ready for war. On top of that we had to train our crew from pilot to the ground crew and those on the assembly line and those involved in bringing about the ew package etc

But otoh. The J10, the aircraft is a battle ready and well integrated with weapons, most of which paf is familiar with and that reduces some aspects of induction/integration time.

It wont be as intensive as it was for the jf17, but pilot training and ground crew training will remain extremely strenuous for the J10's. That process and time does not change much.

And the most importantt thing that i forgot is the aesa radar, which brings totally new tactics to the air warfare.

Unlearn the non aesa radar tecniques and learn the aesa tactics.

 

[SQ8]

When we inducted the JFT @Mastan khan pointed out that induction and integration were 2 different issues and the time line for both was different. The fighter needs to undergo battle scenarios to assess its strengths and weaknesses and how to use it to its maximum advantage. This is what takes time. Based on this strategy is drawn for use of the fighter. Also it takes time for the fighter pilot to be confident enough to use the system in war against its enemies.
A
A

The simplistic way to look at it is that if today the ask is to take the delivered J-10s and use them in a conflict( fly & fight) that goal has already been met. The same way it was met with the JF-17 when it got IOC and around 2010.

However, if the goal is to use it in the MOST effective manner in terms of PAF’s existing and new tactics(impacted by the J-10s introduction) and other systems , be able to sustain its use in the most efficient manner, and be able to bring new pilots straight from Pakistani up to speed where they can use the platform to its 100% is going to take time.

The F-16s landed in 1983 and were flying CAPs within 6 months. They were focused A2A until much later when they worked A2G and with the Atlis pod for PGM. So the full potential of the system didn’t come out until much later even though they were in combat pretty early.

The JF-17s were flying CAPs in 2010 but these were token tests to see performance. During this time issues were discovered, procedures perfected and so on.

 

[Chak Bamu]

When we inducted the JFT @Mastan khan pointed out that induction and integration were 2 different issues and the time line for both was different. The fighter needs to undergo battle scenarios to assess its strengths and weaknesses and how to use it to its maximum advantage. This is what takes time. Based on this strategy is drawn for use of the fighter. Also it takes time for the fighter pilot to be confident enough to use the system in war against its enemies.
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A

Well I was speaking strictly about new technology (AI enabled UCAVs). There is an added complexity of development & validation of technology. That would be on top of the processes of training & integration.

 

[araz]

Well I was speaking strictly about new technology (AI enabled UCAVs). There is an added complexity of development & validation of technology. That would be on top of the processes of training & integration.

Would you be able to elaborate on your post please. We can all learn from it.
Thanks in advance
A

 

[Super Falcon]

As we all know J 10 will be used as Agreesor it means they will go inside India to conduct strikes and number of J 10 will grow

And JF 17 also can be refueled mid air

Four IL 78 won't be much and Ukraine cannot supply us more due to war

Chinese Y 20U Tanker varients will be they best option as we can buy few transport of that class too

 

[Trango Towers]

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Beautiful...I wouldn't want them coming at me. Good luck Indian dodgers

As we all know J 10 will be used as Agreesor it means they will go inside India to conduct strikes and number of J 10 will grow

And JF 17 also can be refueled mid air

Four IL 78 won't be much and Ukraine cannot supply us more due to war

Chinese Y 20U Tanker varients will be they best option as we can buy few transport of that class too

It's good India underestimate jf17s.

 

[Chak Bamu]

Would you be able to elaborate on your post please. We can all learn from it.
Thanks in advance
A

Sir, I really can not. In order for me to speak more, I would have to know substantially about the AI & UCAV technology & know of a case or two regarding their implementation. My comment was general in nature. Any new technology requires validation before it is made operative in the real world; and even then the data is closely analyzed to tweak it over time. This happens on top of all else that has to take place whenever new hardware is incorporated.

 

[imranyounus]

Can anyone update the numbers received. If we go by previous interior ministers we should have had 25 by 23 March.

Or is our internal politics have effected this deal too

 

[CombatSurgeon]

Hi

JF 17 was our baby, and we had to nourish it and, teach it and make it ready for war. On top of that we had to train our crew from pilot to the ground crew and those on the assembly line and those involved in bringing about the ew package etc

But otoh. The J10, the aircraft is a battle ready and well integrated with weapons, most of which paf is familiar with and that reduces some aspects of induction/integration time.

It wont be as intensive as it was for the jf17, but pilot training and ground crew training will remain extremely strenuous for the J10's. That process and time does not change much.

And the most importantt thing that i forgot is the aesa radar, which brings totally new tactics to the air warfare.

Unlearn the non aesa radar tecniques and learn the aesa tactics.

Very well said, sir. AESA brings with it a whole new world of possibilities. This sensor plus the fusion engine is a monster. Imagine the range at which you first pick up the bogies, the interleaving algorithms for multi-target tracking, the speed with which the tracks are established, sorted and prioritized, the instantaneous shift from track to fire against several hostiles and guidance support to several weapons in flight! The ‘first-look’, ‘first-shoot’ and ‘first-kill’ capability is tremendous. All this could be mind boggling.
Similarly, the most one has to unlearn would be in the Gen 5 IR shot employment. Nothing classical survives now. No more pursuit curves to decide, no lead angle estimations, no nose pointing maneuvers. All gone away.

 

[Maarkhoor]

@Bilal Khan (Quwa)
Did we get J-10 C with TVC?

 

[SQ8]

@Bilal Khan (Quwa)
Did we get J-10 C with TVC?

NO

 

[Maarkhoor]

NO

Opps i was expecting it love to see pugachev cobra maneuver, any idea why? since J-10 B have TVC engine.

 

[Bratva]

@Bilal Khan (Quwa)
Did we get J-10 C with TVC?

Bhai app sattu pe ke Soye hoye thai kia? Jo J10 ki induction ceremony nahi dekhi?