p 17 & type 052c comparison

[April.lyrics]

china:money from left hand goes to right hand,which supports our R&D industry.

India:money from own hands goes to other countries.

both 054A and 052C/D are deigned mainly for air defence.before 052C came out (2003),we also built 051C,which contains Russian air defense weapon and systems.052C is the first Chinese version air defense destroyer with AESA radar(346,an indigenous one).and it is said its VLS is developed from Russian VLS.then after 9 years we got our 052D,from the pic we find new AESA radar(346A),new 130mm gun,new VLS.we dont know if it has other new equipments.
however,052D seems not to be the final one.as we know china is working on its aircraft career,052D is designed to play an escort role in fleet,though its VLS seems able to lunch DH10.
phenomenon(new dynamic system QC280,DH10 land attack cruise missile already being test,new air defence missile maybe same as 052D or new one like HHQ26,new VLS the one on 052D,and of course,346A radar) show that is PLAN is planning for a 10,000 ton level destroyer.but we wont see real ship before 2015.052D can not satisfy PLAN.

 

[Gessler]

lol indians here cant contradict the facts i posted about the build times so they go with things like,

our FUTURE fleet is... while china's CURRENT fleet is...
or
build time look bad so we will only compared areas where we look not as bad

oh lols, you guys asked for a comparison, explain why build times isn't a valid comparison while comparing what china has NOW with what india plans to get in the next 10-15 years is valid?

fact is even if the 2 ships are completely equal, we have far more, build much faster, and while you still talk about when you will commission more than 3, our next generation replacement is already in the water, the generation after that is having its technology prototyped, the generation after that is on the drawing boards.



lol the topic says to compare the p-17 to the 052C, and you go and posts some spec from the 052D and the P-15 class?
whats the saying here? oh right "Ignorance at its best"

in addition the info on the 052D is incomplete at best(i know you got ur info from wiki). we dont know if it really has 64 vls or if it will carry anti-ship missile in the vls or not, frankly we still not 100% sure the ciws is the 730,

and frankly your comparisons are wrong to begin with
since the vls is speculated to be able to launch everything from long range sams to cruise missiles you dont compare things like 30 mm remote gun vs barak8, because the vls takes care of barak8's job in the 052D
in fact it would be more like this: vls vs. barak-8, brahmos and possibly barak-1
and more importantly, smaller missile can be quad packed in the vls meaning it could be 64 vls *but be packing 256 missiles

what we do know though : the vast majority of the system on board the 052D is made in china, the p-15 other the other hand...

Imbecile.

Do you know that the Project-15 Delhi-class DDGs we built in 1997 can carry
16 cruise missiles (mostly the Kh-35 Switchblade)??? Your Type-052C you
built in 2004 can only carry 8 such missiles

Honestly I don't think your imaginery Type-52D can even compare with the
Project-15A Kolkata, let alone the Project-15B Bangalore that carries Hypersonic
Cruise Missiles

What is China's "indigenous" progress on Hypersonic Anti-Ship Cruise Missiles, eh?
CCP fanboy...PLAN is just a Coast Guard looking to acquire the status of a Navy,,,
hahaha how will you fight with the US Navy, eh??? You can't even match off
against Indian Navy Bwahahaha....

china:money from left hand goes to right hand,which supports our R&D industry.

India:money from own hands goes to other countries.

Doesn't stay like that all the while. If foreign-bought system is better than
indigenous system, Indian Military buys the foreign system. Now see the result,
India's P-17 FFG is much ahead of China's 054A FFG.

both 054A and 052C/D are deigned mainly for air defence.before 052C came out (2003),we also built 051C,which contains Russian air defense weapon and systems.052C is the first Chinese version air defense destroyer with AESA radar(346,an indigenous one).and it is said its VLS is developed from Russian VLS.then after 9 years we got our 052D,from the pic we find new AESA radar(346A),new 130mm gun,new VLS.we dont know if it has other new equipments.
however,052D seems not to be the final one.as we know china is working on its aircraft career,052D is designed to play an escort role in fleet,though its VLS seems able to lunch DH10.
phenomenon(new dynamic system QC280,DH10 land attack cruise missile already being test,new air defence missile maybe same as 052D or new one like HHQ26,new VLS the one on 052D,and of course,346A radar) show that is PLAN is planning for a 10,000 ton level destroyer.but we wont see real ship before 2015.052D can not satisfy PLAN.

How exactly will all this help once a Hypersonic missile is pointed at your face?

As you have explained yourself, China too had to rely on foreign systems until
you could build your own versions (which however are nothing but copies of old systems
from Russia). Same for India.

Any ship China builds goes to hell. India will come up with a superior ship sooner
than later. The pace of our shipbuilding is set to increase manifold in the coming
5 years.

 

[SinoChallenger]

LOL at the indians deluding themselves

They can't even build a single warship by themselves without Russian help. Now they are so jealous because China has taken a quantum leap with our Type 052D!

 

[timetravel]

LOL at the indians deluding themselves

They can't even build a single warship by themselves without Russian help. Now they are so jealous because China has taken a quantum leap with our Type 052D!

I agree Quantum leap for China. But still far inferior to Indian warships as proved in the thread.

 

[ajtr]

LOL at the indians deluding themselves

They can't even build a single warship by themselves without Russian help. Now they are so jealous because China has taken a quantum leap with our Type 052D!

Aha my favorite poster has posted the pics again.all these 3-4 weeks were so boring reading his posts without pics..
Good ..keep it up..

A pic is worth 1000 words. so you just post pics instead of typing 1000 words....

.....

 

[SinoChallenger]

I agree Quantum leap for China. But still far inferior to Indian warships as proved in the thread.

if that's what you indians need to believe for your inferiority complex then go ahead

 

[perplexed]

Chinese are funny..

The only sane explanation from any of them I heard about the comparison is since they are being delivered every year compared to 5 years in case of us, their frigate is superior..

Sh!tt... they seem to butt-hurt desperately trying to grab some straws..

 

[applesauce]

Imbecile.

Do you know that the Project-15 Delhi-class DDGs we built in 1997 can carry
16 cruise missiles (mostly the Kh-35 Switchblade)??? Your Type-052C you
built in 2004 can only carry 8 such missiles

Honestly I don't think your imaginery Type-52D can even compare with the
Project-15A Kolkata, let alone the Project-15B Bangalore that carries Hypersonic
Cruise Missiles

funny you're comparing the p-15 to the 052D when we are in a p-17 to 052C thread
and yes the p-15 has more anti ship missile but your 2-brain cell mind cant comprehend that the 052c focuses more on anti air and thus carrys a much longer ranged sam system.

infact let me use your words.

Imbecile.

Do you know that the 052c can carry
HHQ-9 with 200 km range, Your P-15's Shtil has a range of 50km
heck our 054A frigate's sams has that range

Honestly I don't think your imaginary Project-15B can even compare with the
052C, let alone the 052D(already in the water) that carries powerful APARs with a common universal VLS system able to launch everything from sams to cruise missiles
_____________________________________
oh this is fun let me do it again.

Imbecile.

Do you know that the 052c can carry
YJ62 with >400 km range, Your P-15's kh-35 has a range of 130km
we will out range you every single time especially given our far more powerful radar system

Honestly I don't think your imaginary Project-15B can even compare with the
054A, let alone the 052D(already in the water) which will find you first, shoot at you first be gone long before you know what hit you

Doesn't stay like that all the while. If foreign-bought system is better than
indigenous system, Indian Military buys the foreign system. Now see the result,
India's P-17 FFG is much ahead of China's 054A FFG.

lol except in times of war china can pump out hundred of 054A while India wont be able to build a single p-17.

How exactly will all this help once a Hypersonic missile is pointed at your face?

how will your hypersonic missiles(another thing you cant build in time of war) help you when we are out of it's range and hammering you with >400km ranged yj62's

As you have explained yourself, China too had to rely on foreign systems until
you could build your own versions (which however are nothing but copies of old systems
from Russia). Same for India.

our own versions? please Russia has anything comparable to the 052C or 052D? get your head out of the sand it may be good for you.

Any ship China builds goes to hell. India will come up with a superior ship sooner
than later. The pace of our shipbuilding is set to increase manifold in the coming
5 years.

oh look another 5 year prediction from india, lol has the world forgotten shanghai for mumbai yet? has India started a sustained 10%+ a year growth yet?
lol India, forever a future superpower, forever a current 3rd rate country.

 

[oct605032048]

This is fun I just want to quote it.

funny you're comparing the p-15 to the 052D when we are in a p-17 to 052C thread
and yes the p-15 has more anti ship missile but your 2-brain cell mind cant comprehend that the 052c focuses more on anti air and thus carrys a much longer ranged sam system.

infact let me use your words.

Imbecile.

Do you know that the 052c can carry
HHQ-9 with 200 km range, Your P-15's Shtil has a range of 50km
heck our 054A frigate's sams has that range

Honestly I don't think your imaginary Project-15B can even compare with the
052C, let alone the 052D(already in the water) that carries powerful APARs with a common universal VLS system able to launch everything from sams to cruise missiles
_____________________________________
oh this is fun let me do it again.

Imbecile.

Do you know that the 052c can carry
YJ62 with >400 km range, Your P-15's kh-35 has a range of 130km
we will out range you every single time especially given our far more powerful radar system

Honestly I don't think your imaginary Project-15B can even compare with the
054A, let alone the 052D(already in the water) which will find you first, shoot at you first be gone long before you know what hit you




lol except in times of war china can pump out hundred of 054A while India wont be able to build a single p-17.



how will your hypersonic missiles(another thing you cant build in time of war) help you when we are out of it's range and hammering you with >400km ranged yj62's



our own versions? please Russia has anything comparable to the 052C or 052D? get your head out of the sand it may be good for you.



oh look another 5 year prediction from india, lol has the world forgotten shanghai for mumbai yet? has India started a sustained 10%+ a year growth yet?
lol India, forever a future superpower, forever a current 3rd rate country.

 

[itaskol]

ship vs ship is never a good idea.
I hope that chinese destroyers will no more carry anti ship missile at all. ( or carry some lang rang cruise missile which over 1500 kilo meter)
anti air capibility are much much more important than anti ship.
a warship without good anti air capability is only a coast guard ship.

the best way to detroy a ship is the missile from the aircraft of the carrier.
and the best way to destry a carrier is lang range anti ship ballistic missile.
ships are guardians of the aircraft carrier.

 

[RISING SUN]

I found some points in another site discussion thread. which is worth sharing. It can be considered neutral if you believe.
1-
I am not sure that a comparison can be made as they appear to have different missions. The Chinese 52C class destroyer are obviously air defense platforms whereas the Kolkata has what are essentially point defense SAMs but appears to be well outfitted for both ASUW and ASW. If we are discussing a ship to ship engagement I believe that the Kolkata would have the upper hand but I have to echo what other posters have stated already; there is not enough published information to come up with an informed opinion.
2-
It would be premature to evaluate the Kolkota at this point. So little has been disclosed by the Indian Navy or journalists.
Some of the features that I am waiting for confirmation are:
-Wether it will feature the AEGIS
-What are the actual capablities and numbers of Barak-8 that it will carry
-What will be it main Naval Gun

Some of the info on wikipedia is incorrect. Wikepedia mentions a total CIWS of 2 Kashtan or AK630. In all liklihood it will feature 32 Barak -1 in addition or an entirely new CIWS. We just have to wait till official stats are released or when it is commisioned later this year.

The Indian Navy kept every one guessing on the SHIVALIK and then proved all speculations wrong. Before commision its displacement was described as 4000 tons and its CIWS as consisting of two Kashtan. When it was officialy commisioned it was learnt that it actually diplaces 6,200 tons and had 32 Cell Barak -1 and 2 AK630 as ciws

3-
1.) Considering the fact that the first Kolkata Class is scheduled to be commissioned in the summer of 2011 and no Aegis has been ordered, it is safe to say that these ships will not have any.

2.) Barak II sams are comparable to Sea Sparrow of the USN. However, it is developed from a short range point defense Barak I sam.

3.) Guns are vital but doesn't make or break a ship
4-
It is too early too make an accurate comparison. Indian Navy has disclosed too little.
Regarding Barak 8:
Newpaper reports claim India and Israel are working on jointly developing atleast two maybe three SAM types. These 2 to 3 Sam types are supposed to have ranges between 70 and 150 kms according to media sources.It is not known for sure which catagory the Barak 8 falls into.
5-
The Type-052C has the subsonic YJ-62 ASM, while the Kolkata will carry the Bhramos Supersonic (Mach 3, Brahmos 2 is Hypersonic) ASM. I would say it does not appear good for the Chinese. They do have a long-range fire advantage, but their targeting depends on ELINT/Naval Int assets due to the range. The Indian ship has a shorter ranged weapon that is waaay harder to intercept and way more dangerous.
6-
The rule of thumb is that the faster the missile, the harder it is to intercept but the easier to spoof with decoys. There is a reason why NATO went with the subsonic missile instead of the super fast Russian ones.
7-
Something I find interesting is- the ratio of the length vs beam for both the ships are roughly similar.
The Chinese Ship is 154 mtrs long with a beam of 17mtrs.
The Indian Kolkota is 163 mtrs long with a beam of 17.4 mtrs.

Both ships are much narrower at the beam compared to most modern western designs. This shows the relative infancy of ship design in both the countries. All modern western designs have moved to much wider beams. The FREMM, Horizon and Type 45 roughly displace similar tonnage, are slighly shorter however each of these ships have beams measuring in excess of 20 metres.

I really cannot speak for the Chinese but I can say this for the Indian Kolkota. The Kolkota retains the same hull dimensions of the Older Delhi class(the superstructure is different). The narrower Hull shape was deliberately retained as cost saving measure since the Kolkota is a follow on of the Delhi Class.

People's Republic of China
Type 052D destroyer - (64 cells)
Type 052C destroyer - (48 cells)
Type 051C destroyer - (48 cells)
Type 054A frigate - (32 cells)

India
INS Viraat - Barak 1 (2 x 8 cells)
Kolkata class destroyer - Barak 8 (2 x 32 cells)
Shivalik class frigate - Barak 1 (8 cells)
Talwar class frigate - 3M-54 Klub or BrahMos (8 cells)

 

[RISING SUN]

Shivalik class frigate - Barak 1 (8 cells)

Anti-ship missiles:
8× VLS launched Klub, anti-ship cruise missiles
or
8× VLS launched BrahMos, anti-ship cruise missiles
So shivalik class has in total 16 VLS launcher.

 

[帅的一匹]

052d is too much for IN, Yj62 anti-ship missile has range of 280km plus. That out range all the Indian destroyers and frigates in service.

 

[mautkimaut]

052d is too much for IN, Yj62 anti-ship missile has range of 280km plus. That out range all the Indian destroyers and frigates in service.

so does Brahmos .. it has a range of 290 KM..

 

[ares]

052d is too much for IN, Yj62 anti-ship missile has range of 280km plus. That out range all the Indian destroyers and frigates in service.

No!!

Brhamos deployed on Rajput class destroyer, has a range of 300 Km

P-15A(or Kolkata class destroyer) carries 16 Brahmos supersonic missiles .

Kolkata class destroyer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia