Opposition to Islamic Caliphate thread

[haviZsultan]

Ok, let's presume that 90% of all Muslims wanted a real Muslim caliphate to return tomorrow.

Who should rule then? From where? For how long? Would Muslims even agree with each other on those 3 crucial questions? I very much doubt this.

For now I think that Makkah and Madinah should have a position similar to the Vatican but still be a part of Saudi Arabia as they are ancient Hijazi cities just like they were before the birth of Prophet Muhammad (saws).

Also the Muslim world will never be a threat to the West as long as the gap in economy, science etc. is as big as it is currently.

When the Rashidun, Umayyad, Abbasid etc. caliphates were the biggest empires in the world they were not only renowned for their military strength and religious zeal but also for being ahead of most others in terms of science and economy.

Al-Baghdadi has already declared a Caliphate in Syria and Iraq. Look how that is going.

Those questions flutter around the minds of each and every muslim. We are so divided now, how will we unite suddenly. Brother the answer is when people begin seeing a muslim nation that is at least in part successful both economically and martially the people will look towards that state as a paragon. The Caliphate has to return however. But I do not believe any state can rise without Allah's intervention. Lets see how things turn out.

I don't believe in Shia hadith on Mahdi. And I don't compare time to our time which is much worse. We don't have anyone to guide us. And neither am I naive to believe that when Mahdi emerges we won't be attacked. Actually worst war ever to take place will occur when he does.

I am not talking about Shia or Sunni hadith. Even sunni hadith has mention of a Mehdi. I am sunni by the way but identify as only muslim Pakistani.

 

[TankMan]

I am well knowledgeable on my religion. I am even more knowledgeable on the enemies of my religion and their thought processes

Good for you then.

Apparently you fear I'm going to attack people here.

I don't. The only problem I have is the downright disgusting language you're using, which you shouldn't have to if your argument is as strong as you claim it is.

You're more worried about your image.

My priorities are better than that. Thousands of Muslims are murdered by other Muslims every day. How can you even think we'll fight any oppression while we're busy oppressing eachother over the smallest disagreements?

As for Image, it is very important. Image is how you do Dawah. Without image, Dawah becomes difficult and the enemies of Islam win. By disregarding image you're giving them an edge. It's bad strategy. Look at the bigger picture.

Yet you don't realize the perception of Kuffar of your religion is not something dictated by what they claim. It's just another tool they use to demoralize Muslims as part of their psychological warfare against you. They enjoy seeing you depressed and afraid.

Do you seriously believe that every single non-Muslim on Earth is some evil Kafir? They aren't. Most of them have no idea about Islam or Muslims. The idea they get is the one we convey - if we don't start respecting ourselves and giving ourselves a better image, the 'Kuffar' don't need to do anything - we're doing their propaganda for them, against ourselves.

That needs to stop. All the demoralization will stop automatically.

Muslim Governments need to implement Shariah laws other wise we would never be able to defeat groups like ISIS or TTP or Jandullah.

Cutting hands and Burkas is not the basis of Sharia. Justice is. Actual Sharia is very good, if it is implemented - but the Khwarij will still oppose it the same way they oppose us now, and we'll keep having to fight them.

 

[Zarvan]

Good for you then.

I don't. The only problem I have is the downright disgusting language you're using, which you shouldn't have to if your argument is as strong as you claim it is.

My priorities are better than that. Thousands of Muslims are murdered by other Muslims every day. How can you even think we'll fight any oppression while we're busy oppressing eachother over the smallest disagreements?

As for Image, it is very important. Image is how you do Dawah. Without image, Dawah becomes difficult and the enemies of Islam win. By disregarding image you're giving them an edge. It's bad strategy. Look at the bigger picture.


Do you seriously believe that every single non-Muslim on Earth is some evil Kafir? They aren't. Most of them have no idea about Islam or Muslims. The idea they get is the one we convey - if we don't start respecting ourselves and giving ourselves a better image, the 'Kuffar' don't need to do anything - we're doing their propaganda for them, against ourselves.

That needs to stop. All the demoralization will stop automatically.


Cutting hands and Burkas is not the basis of Sharia. Justice is. Actual Sharia is very good, if it is implemented - but the Khwarij will still oppose it the same way they oppose us now, and we'll keep having to fight them.

Cutting hands and covering face is one part of Sharia yes not whole shariah but it is part of shariah.

 

[TankMan]

Cutting hands and covering face is one part of Sharia yes not whole shariah but it is part of shariah.

We should not let religion be reduced to a mere shell without its actual spirit - the spirit is justice. There's no point in covering faces and cutting hands when you're trading drugs and murdering people at the same time (referring to the Taliban)

covering face

Highly debatable. It is advisable but not a Sharia ruling, i.e it's not required.

 

[Falcon29]

Those questions flutter around the minds of each and every muslim. We are so divided now, how will we unite suddenly. Brother the answer is when people begin seeing a muslim nation that is at least in part successful both economically and martially the people will look towards that state as a paragon. The Caliphate has to return however. But I do not believe any state can rise without Allah's intervention. Lets see how things turn out.

I am not talking about Shia or Sunni hadith. Even sunni hadith has mention of a Mehdi. I am sunni by the way but identify as only muslim Pakistani.

We are desperately in need of Allah's intervention. Until that time comes, we should focus on protecting your selves. People that envy us and commit aggression against us should pay a price. People that don't (Latin nations for example) are respected by us and we have no quarrels with them.

 

[Zarvan]

We should not let religion be reduced to a mere shell without its actual spirit - the spirit is justice. There's no point in covering faces and cutting hands when you're trading drugs and murdering people at the same time (referring to the Taliban)

Highly debatable. It is advisable but not a Sharia ruling, i.e it's not required.

Its Shariah ruling mate its not advice when order came in Surah Al Ahzab no women used to go outside with her face uncovered

 

[Frogman]

Yes, we're nasty for standing up for our basic rights. Tell me something I haven't heard already, Kafir.

I haven't seen any talk of the right to clean water, the right to education, the right to a childhood, freedom of religion, freedom of speech. I have not seen any posts on this thread advocating bread, liberty and social justice.

Not once have I seen the word poverty or destitution. A single unified state on religious lines is not a basic right, it is a dream, one which offers no real answer to poverty, inequality, or injustice in the form you are arguing for.

 

[haviZsultan]

Its Shariah ruling mate its not advice when order came in Surah Al Ahzab no women used to go outside with her face uncovered

The headscarf or burka is for women who cannot protect themselves from the sexual glances of men. It is merely a choice, like the beard.

 

[TankMan]

Its Shariah ruling mate its not advice when order came in Surah Al Ahzab no women used to go outside with her face uncovered

Context bro, context and addressees.
Most of the verses regarding women there start with: ''O wives of the Prophet,'' - including those that talk about covering the face. Not applicable to all women.
Surat Al-'Ahzab - The Noble Qur'an - القرآن الكريم

If you want a detailed argument, here:
Is Face Veil compulsory

 

[thesolar65]

I just came here to read!! That's all I can comment!!

 

[Zarvan]

The headscarf or burka is for women who cannot protect themselves from the sexual glances of men. It is merely a choice, like the beard.

Its not a choice its an order when ALLAH tells something to do he is not requesting he orders and also his PROPHET SAW

 

[Banu Hashim]

I would prefer that Muslims (or people as a whole) focused on improving their own life, community, city, village and then afterwards country and foreign lands.

First learn how to be a good husband, father, brother, grandson etc.

The amount of basic needs that are not working in the Muslim world are too many to mention. Muslims in Somalia and Ethiopia are starving to death, the life expectancy of the average person in Afghanistan is 60 years, oppressive regimes, corruption, lack of development, lack of scientific contribution, extreme positions (of all kind), ethnic conflicts, poverty, overpopulation, wars and more wars etc.

No need to save the world when the Muslim world is the one that needs urgent help.

 

[Zarvan]

Context bro, context and addressees.
Most of the verses regarding women there start with: ''O wives of the Prophet,'' - including those that talk about covering the face. Not applicable to all women.
Surat Al-'Ahzab - The Noble Qur'an - القرآن الكريم

If you want a detailed argument, here:
Is Face Veil compulsory

Yes starts from O wives and ends on and every believing women and covering face is compulsory I have read both arguments and covering face order is clear most those who say it was compulsory for wives of PROPHET SAW although ayahs clearly include every one from wives of PROPHET SAW to all believing women and those who say its compulsory for wives say its better not compulsory but more than 90 % have clear view its compulsory.

Ruling on covering the face, with detailed evidence
- islamqa.info
Ruling on covering the face, with detailed evidence

 

[XenoEnsi-14]

-Muslim Brotherhood-Hamas-Palestinian Islamic Jihad-Other Palestinian Islamic Factions-Lebanese Abdullah Azzam Brigades-Lebanese Salafist movement-Nusra Front-ISIS-Islamic Front of Syria-Other Islamic factions in Syria-Libyan Dawn-Taliban of Afghanistan-Somalian Islamic Factions-Chechen Islamic factions-converts to Islam from EU-(Insert others)-Kasmir Islamic factions-Malaysia Islamic factions-Bangladesh Islamic factions-Saudi Arabian government-Turkish government-Pakistani government-Qatar ?-Houthis-UAE-Iran-Iraq-Hezbollah-Egyptian government-Iraqi Shia militias-Assad regime-Kuwait-Lebanese government-Every other Arab government-Turkish secular movement

All of these groups are against the Caliphate. None of them even know who is Muslim or not.

 

[Zibago]

I just came here to read!! That's all I can comment!!