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Operation Blue Star -Sikh Holocaust 1984

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was an Indian military operation ordered by Indira Gandhi, the then Prime Minister of India
"Sikh SEPERATISTS" Am I right?
If All 2 million Hindus in Pakistan want to split a part of Pakistan and call it Hindustan and they were hiding in a temple. Won't your government do anything? Just asking...

very very sad Sikhs have suffer'd alot but things arent any better for them til now these days i thank Allah for everyday that they gave us Pakistan i've personally met alot of Sikhs in New York thier views about thier Homeland arent good.
Yes it's very sad, i agree.
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INDIAN ARMY!
 
HI All

Though i am a little late to contribute in this thread but me being a sikh thought i should also share my opinion on operation blue star...I wont get into length so a few points...

@paritosh

The Indian govt. did not attack the golden temple because it was a Sikh place of worship...the Indian govt. was not against the Sikhs...it was against the separatists housed in the golden temple complex.
let me re-phrase it....
We were against the separatists not because they were Sikhs but because they wanted to liberate the Punjab region from India.


Yes very true...However there are lot of things that need to be considered...The whole episode is a black spot on our history.
- Indira Gandhi failed to understand the pulse of Punjab and the same mistake was repeated by her son(Rajiv Gandhi)..
- Bhindrawala was Indira Gandhi's creation to have a tap on Akali Dal which was proving to be headache for congress in Punjab...Because they were after the promises that were made to sikhs during partition and were getting lot of public support

We all know that terrorist were hiding inside the holy shrine but did we question how did that happened??? What were the reasons which lead to it??? We need to keep in mind that as well...

Ayways what happened was unfortunate and i am glad things are looking better now...




that is why you'd see that in the entire length of this thread...Indians have somewhat defended the golden temple episode but all have unequivocally condemned the riots of '84 as they had a communal basis.Your usage of phrases like "Hindu dominated GoI" shows that you either don't understand what the op bluestar was about....or deliberately want to fuel a communal showdown of sorts on this thread.


Paritosh i vehemently oppose the Golden Temple attack but not for obvious reasons and 84 riots for obvious reasons...Here are some points

- Do you know that most of the sikhs did not support bhindrawala when he was alive?? It was the attack on Golden Temple that resulted him in becoming a martyr...
- Do you know how many innocent people died in the cross fire between millitants and army??? How can one be so naive to attack the shrine on a holy day when you are expecting pilgrims in thousands???
- The attack was not just against militants...The deeper message was to break the phyche of Sikhs who supported Khalistan.. So far so good but the way it was done was pathetic and by the time people realized its impact Punjab was trembling under the daemon of Terrorism
- Golden temple followed by 84 riots was more than enough to alienate Sikhs to such a level that even if they wouldn't have they ended up supporting Khalistan movement...if not joining it then atleast supporting it...
- Thank god good sense prevailed and punjabi's realized people who are using them(Terrorist) have nothing to do with the cause...


I hope you have pretty much the same views but if not we can discuss....
 
India did commit a lot of atrocities against the Sikh Minority and continue to have Sikhs in jail to this date with no trials. If they cut the water, food and power to Golden Temple, they would not have to desecrate the golden temple. Even if Pakistan had 3 wars with India and Sikhs fought against Pakistan, we still did not attack and Mandirs or Sikh Holy Places in Pakistan. This just shows the nature of a Nation.
 
Why does Pakistan Continue to separate The population of the Sub-continent based on Religion or creed

You have done so with your own country now stay out of ours.

Sikh support is firmly towards, India , because they are Indian.
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And lets not forget India's most Powerful Singh
Manmohan Singh
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Clearly your Idea that sikhs will go against India is as absurd as Blacks going against America.
 
India did commit a lot of atrocities against the Sikh Minority and continue to have Sikhs in jail to this date with no trials. If they cut the water, food and power to Golden Temple, they would not have to desecrate the golden temple. Even if Pakistan had 3 wars with India and Sikhs fought against Pakistan, we still did not attack and Mandirs or Sikh Holy Places in Pakistan. This just shows the nature of a Nation.

Really good one! :lol::lol: Than why you are killing your own Pakistani brothers in Waziristan and SWAT ??? :azn: :azn:

In 1984, Indian Govt. does not acted against Punjabis. They acted against the separatists during operation blue star. :police:

Yes, I condemn the riots of 1984. :frown:
 
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Why does Pakistan Continue to separate The population of the Sub-continent based on Religion or creed

You have done so with your own country now stay out of ours.

Sikh support is firmly towards, India , because they are Indian.
102d97d364ba3b2326877125b94b2c7c.jpg


900b14d9c76be0e7b29ec873404aae8e.jpg


And lets not forget India's most Powerful Singh
Manmohan Singh
4e776de466dd2069cf49fa440b48b197.jpg


a76a06eea4c141ea95c3bd93486b370f.jpg


Clearly your Idea that sikhs will go against India is as absurd as Blacks going against America.

Nice answer bro......:cheers:

Do Pakistan have any non-muslim as their PM or President ????:cheesy:
 
India did commit a lot of atrocities against the Sikh Minority and continue to have Sikhs in jail to this date with no trials. If they cut the water, food and power to Golden Temple, they would not have to desecrate the golden temple. Even if Pakistan had 3 wars with India and Sikhs fought against Pakistan, we still did not attack and Mandirs or Sikh Holy Places in Pakistan. This just shows the nature of a Nation.

First Sikh officer in Pakistan Army

By Zulqernain Tahir

LAHORE, Dec 19 2005: Harcharan Singh, 19, of the Nankana Sahib, is the first Pakistani Sikh in the country’s 58-year history who has been commissioned in the Pakistan Army as an officer.

The minorities in Pakistan are allowed to sit in all examinations, including the one conducted by Inter Services Selection Board (ISSB), but neither a Hindu nor a Sikh could get selected for the army service since the country’s inception. However, many Christians served in the army.

Harcharan was skeptical this year while appearing in the ISSB’s preliminary tests, thinking that such examinations were not meant for them (Sikhs) as he could not get through the initial phase last year.

Now the aforementioned news shows that either Pakistan is biased towards Hindus and Sikhs to induct them into their armed forces or they are socially backward. :eek:
 
Do Pakistan have any non-muslim as their PM or President ????

Pakistan is an islamic state...Is india a hindu state??? Answer is no and thus you cannot expect both the countries to be same from their secular stand point... Also Obama is US president does that mean there is no racism in US???

Now the aforementioned news shows that either Pakistan is biased towards Hindus and Sikhs to induct them into their armed forces or they are socially backward.

See the explanation above....I fail to understand that while comparing Pakistan and India why do indians forget that we are a democracy from 62 years with one tiny blot of emergency during Indira Gandhi rule..whereas Pakistans unfortunately has hardly seen true colors of democracy...So you just cannot compare...though good luck to them and hopefully the current government will fulfill its tenure with the next civilian one to follow :)


what india needs to do is to ensure that fanatics(Hindu,Sikh,Muslims etc) do not get a chance to do any more things like 84 or Gujarat riots..

One thought to do some self introspection - When was the last time you heard about any communal riots of the level of 84 or Gujarat against non-muslims in Pakistan??? There should be no shame in accepting our mistakes in the past...However if someone is using those examples to prove that india is not united against any adversaries then they are living in fools paradise...let them why to bother????

One more advice to my friends this topic is about Operation Blue star which has nothing to do with whose prime minister is of what religion...So please add if you have something useful or else ignore...
 
All i can see that the thread started dint succeed in his attempt or did he ;)

Lot of Indian guys from all religions debated but mostly peacefully :D :tup:

I am also glad that Most of the Pakistani members stayed away and did not add fuel to the ignition. :) :tup:

There is good and bad in all of us, Same goes for nations Because nations consist of people. There are times when evil overcomes our good side and we do mistakes and heinous ones at that. Black spots and dark days in societies and nations occur when evil sweeps through to a huge number of people at the same time ( Even through the origin are a few). But its not like Evil can capture the good for ever. people come out of it and peace is largely maintained. Those days even though remembered with great sadness, and sometimes anger by people, the majority still continue in the good way and keep the negative aspects over running the sane side. No need of proof for this one. The very survival of human kind through thousands of years is proof enough.

Conflicts based on regions, nations, religion and even ideas and thoughts will occur but wont be able to abolish the good. Its the very fate of evil to be beaten ultimately by good.

In every major occurrence of events like the one the thread is addressing, innocent people suffer and get killed.. That is really sad and unfortunate but that is how it is. When event like riots, wars happen we lose our loved ones but life moves on. That's how it must be. Bringing more unrest because of events of the past is not the way forward but still a minority will take that path as being an immortal evil cant truly be irradiated. ( By evil i do not mean the people who are evil.. but i mean the inherent component of the basis of every soul which takes over the conscience from time to time)

OK.. that was seriously off topic. Peace.:undecided:
 
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very very sad Sikhs have suffer'd alot but things arent any better for them til now these days i thank Allah for everyday that they gave us Pakistan i've personally met alot of Sikhs in New York thier views about thier Homeland arent good.

I do not understand the logic behind your statements. Can you please elaborate?

Sikhs have suffered, true... Things are not better? and Thank Allah for Pakistan? and sikhs in New York not having good views about their homeland???
 
True, I've heard similar stories. The event had nothing to do with religion, isn't Tytler a sikh converted to Christianity?

Luckily the dark days did not create a rift between sikhs and other groups. When we were kids in mumbai and had to take a taxi by ourselves, our mom had instructed us to look for a taxi driven by a Sardarji. That did not change even during the insurgency days and all non sikhs from india i know have a deep sense of love and gratitude towards sikhs. Bad thing is, no more sardarji driven taxis in mumbai anymore, good thing is, Sikhs have largely got out of that socio economic class and are the most affluent majot group in india today.

Ohh, So true Fateh... Very Rightly Said...
 
ur facts r wrong!!!!! nonononon wait a moment!!!! that is wat the goverment said. at that moment bhindrawala was not trying to divide india he was only trying to provide some right to the sikhs:

Post-Independence : Broken Promises & Discrimination


In 1950, despite protests by Sikhs, the Indian constitution was adopted, which failes to even recognize the Sikhs as a separate religion or "quam," instead Sikhs were categorised as Hindus, and remained defined as such under Article 25 of the Constitution. The British recognised Sikh marriages under the Anand Karaj Act 1909, however this was replaced by the Hindu Marriage Act 1951. Sikh marriages are no longer recognised. To get a marriage license in "secular India", Sikhs have to sign a form entitled "The Hindu Marriage Act of 1951"

Panjab was a state utterly broken and totally ruined both economically and socially by the Partition with Pakistan. Instead of Government help, the Sikhs began facing economical, social and religious discrimination.


Farmers in Panjab paid higher prices for their agriculture inputs, but were offered lower prices for their produce in comparison with neighbouring states. The Central Government assumed sole control over prices and farmers were not allowed to cross state boundaries to get higher prices for their labours in the next state.

Electricity generated by the Hydroelectric Dam Bhakra on the Panjab borders was more costly and provided in smaller amounts in Panjab than in it's neighbouring states.

75% of the water available to Panjab was being diverted to other states.

70% of the revenue raised by Panjabis, for development of Panjab was sent to other states.

The Central Government investment in Panjab was less than 1%, the lowest amongst all the states, however Panjab was the most highly taxed.

Restrictions on the recruitment and promotion of Sikhs in the armed forces were applied. This was a grave insult as Sikhs being 2% of India's population counted for the majority of sacrifices in the freedom struggle against the British.

After Independence Sikhs began facing racial slurs from leaders and the media. When Nehru was reminded about the promises he and Gandhi made to the Sikhs before Independence and all the broken promises since, he stated simple, "the circumstances have now changed."

"Kya main taqat dushman ke hath main de dun (How can I entrust powwer into the hands of the enemies)." (Jawaharlal Nehru, 1961)

"The Sikhs are lawless people and a menace to the law abiding Hindus... The Government should take strict measures against them." (Jawaharlal Nehru)

In a circular sent to all Deputy Commisioners in Panjab by the Home Minister Vallabhi Patel, there were instructions that Sikhs should be treated like a "criminal tribe." They were urged to be severe so that the Sikhs should wake up to the political realities and recognize "who are the masters and who are the slaves."

In 1956 all states in India were recognized on linguistic and cultural basis, however Panjab was the only state in India left out of this. In addition huge anti-Sikh propoganda compelled virtually all Panjabi speaking Hindus to deny Panjabi as their language and claim allegiance to Hindi, however, their knowledge of Hindi was non-existent.

Furthermore, Sikhs felt the wrath of Hindu nationalism nurtured by M.K. Gandhi. After his death fundamentalist cults and organisations such as RSS and Ayra Smaaj began anti-Sikh propaganda. Sikhs were humiliated throughout national media and literature. Ayra Smaaj and other fundamentalist Hindu organisations published literature, held events and conferences which degraded and insulted the Sikh Gurus. A great effort was made to disolve Sikhism into Hinduism.

In 1966 the Panjabi Suba Movement began, during peaceful agitations throughout the 50's and 60's over 250,000 Sikhs demonstrated peacefully and courted arrest to get their linguistic rights (this is 5times the number of Indians arrested by the British in the whole "Quit India Movement"). Darshan Singh Peruman was martyred whilst on hunger strike in prison. He demanded that Sikhs should be given more rights and more autonomy for Panjab. His martyrdom and noble sacrifice was ignored by the Government.

Two majority Panjabi speaking districts were left out of the 1961 census. The now already shrunken Panjab was further halved to form a Hindi speaking state Haryana in 1966. Furthermore, the small remmant of Panjab was still denied the status of a Panjabi speaking state. Some of the prosperous Panjabi speaking areas including the capital Chandigarh were left out and given to Haryana. This was a direct violation of the Indian Constitution and pre-independence promises. Panjab remains the only state in India to have a shared capital and no control over its natural resources, water and electricity.

I cannot believe anything of what you have stated above... It simply is not true... Please substantiate your claims, if you have anything to support the above...
 
this is a very wrong conclusion that you've made yourself to believe...maybe it's because you are still coming to grips with the politics of the sub-continent.
The congress under Mrs. gandhi was for the first time since independence fearing a defeat in the elections...In punjab they had not foot-hold....so she endorsed Bhidrawala...
as far as bhidrawala is concerned...you shouldn't jump to conclusions...majority of the Sikhs...even those you know and who love India...don't view him as a terrorist...from what i've heard he was a religious man.it was Mrs Gandhi's fault that she played with fire.

on a side note...i would like all the hindu memebers(I hate referring religiously but....)to realize that today the two reasons why we remain hindus to this day is because of
a)the Rajputs of rajasthan
b)the Sikh warriors of Punjab
whenever I see a sikh I remember that.




yeah...I agree.
even if he was brutal...today's generation of Sikhs and hindus owe the peace in Punjab to him.

That is so true... The history of the Singhs has been written in blood, all along...
 
I admire IG Gandhi because she knew exactly what would be the repercusion of sending indian troop in to holy shrine of golden temple .They had all sorts of behind the scene negotiations which ofcourse failed and Bhidrawala was on verge of declaring khalistani state. So Gandhi had to take very unpopular but tough measure at her personal perils.

I can never believe operation blue star was politically motivated or intended to demean sikh community in anyway.

This lady kept her sikh body guards inspite of clear intelligence reports that Sikhs were to out kill her to avenge Blue star ops.

we hardly see this kind courage any more among indian politicians and her tough desion making ability is sorely missied.

She made many blunders like imposing emergency,but her tough as nail attitude was admired by even critics like Henry kissinger.

You second quote:


" on a side note...i would like all the hindu memebers(I hate referring religiously but....)to realize that today the two reasons why we remain hindus to this day is because of
a)the Rajputs of rajasthan
b)the Sikh warriors of Punjab
whenever I see a sikh I remember that.
"

what utter pure nonsensical bullshit statement...Come on paritosh i never expected such stupid statements which i heard for the second time.First one time i heard it from a Khalistani rabble rouser on youtube.

Outside NCR and north west india,such statement would be viewed as idiotic to say the least.

What u exactly u meant when u say Rajputs and sikhs saved hindism?? u mean saved from converting to islam by muslim invaders ??

Hinduism is thousands yr old and pracised by crores of ppl in all parts of india.

I'm from orissa and mosts of the ppl are hindus not becasue of any Rajputs or sikhs,but because of undiminishing faith many centuries old Jagananth tradition.So is case with most other states in middle india and down south where hindu religion survived due strong belief system of the native ppl and innumerous sacrifices in spite of hundreds of yrs of muslim onslaught.

I've nothing but utter respect for sikh religion and sikh ppl in general,but Guru Nanak appeared and khalsa movement came into exitence only in 17th century.

By then most of muslims areas in suncontinet of today had coverted to Islam already.

Its Maratha Warriors shivaji maharaj who faught Aurangzebs conversion drive far successfuly then any Rajput or khalsa sikh.But then again forceful conversion was seen in few pockets and many hindus converted to islam due to Sufi movement at that specific point of time.

Guru Govind singh who just ushered martial khalsa sikh was contempory of shivaji.

I know that sikh warroirs help save some hindus lives of north west india during the invasion of Nadir Shar of iran.And from there rose these stories of Sikhs saving hindus.

But making any blanket statemet like giving credit to Rajputs or sikhs for existence of hinduism is historically inaccurate and sounds very stupid to say the least.

Hindus of orissa or many other states of india are hindus now... not because of support from any Rajputs or sikhs...but because of their strong conviction in hindu religion itself.


.

Khajur, my brother, please read history in detail... and from both perspectives, the ones of defending Singhs and the Invading Muslim hordes... No offence to your POV seriously, just that you need to know more about the past...
 
@ khajur:

Bhindranwala never wanted Khalistan initialy, all he wanted was what promised to Sikhs in 1947. Khalistan was declared by Sikhs in 1986.

It was to heal IG's her bruised ego. During emergency, Sikhs shred her emergency rule to pieces in Punjab by long marches, since it was un-constitutinal.

Wasn't that kissinger who called her "old witch"?

Who faught moguls than all these year? 55 years of gurrila war by Sikhs. Rajputana rebelions. Read India's history from 1600s - 1850s. Sikhs rescued girl whenever Abdali was taking them to Kabul.

Sivaji faught Aurangzeb but where? In Maharashtra? Give me the time line where Maratha's faught Jahangir?, who faught Abdali?, who faught Mir Mannu etc.



When did shivahi captured Delhi? Who closed the Khyberpass? Do you have any idea how many times India was attacked, many attackes never reached Maharashtra due to fighting with Sikhs, Rajputs and/or looters had gotten what they needed.



I would love to debate this one with you. PM on this one open a new thread, I want to know how you came to this conclusion.

I second your words, brother...
 
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