Operation Blue Star -Sikh Holocaust 1984

[Khajur]

Please refer to post #117.

Yes,but may be somewhere more appropriate,as I said just dont do it here.period.

 

[A1Kaid]

Punjab - Who Killed the Sikhs?

"In Punjab State Sikh militants fought for an Independent state of Khalistan. We go to the country proud to call itself the world's largest democracy to investigate claims that over 2000 Sikhs have been abducted, tortured and killed in the name of anti-terrorism.

Produced by SBS/Dateline
Distributed by Journeyman Pictures"



A Documentary presented by "Journeyman", this is a great informative and balanced Documentary. A Must Watch.



Counter-terrorism does not give you the right to systematically kill, kidnap, beat, and harass Sikh people in Punjab (their homeland). Indian Police went around like blood thirsty militias and without any good evidence beat, killed, and tortured many Sikh families. Not to mention Indian Army persecuted many innocent Sikhs on one of their most holiest days at their Holy sites. Counter-terrorism does not give you the right to do this, some Indian Army personnel did fire indiscriminately.

Indian Police and Hindu mobs also looted Sikh-Punjab province of it's tremendous wealth after the Sikhs- one of the hardest working people in India worked many generation to acquire the wealth and prosperity.


In the video at 2:30-2:40 a Sikh man says "most of the police officers are illiterate and don't know anything about the law." That is true.

 

[bandit]

With over 13 pages and 193 comments this thread has outlived its natural life span.

And when the same arguments goes round and round it look more like bickering at first sight which i dont like specifically on this site.

There is no bickering...nobody is calling the other names...in fact this has turned out to be very productive thread with members patiently listening each other out and going to lengths to explain their stand.
The thread did start out with a bit of flamebait as usual like above but look at the posts...theres hardly any hard feeling there...I guess this is an example of how a sensitive topic can be handled with a bit of patience to make it a productive discussion. We still stand united.

My two pence...

 

[chindit]

Counter-terrorism does not give you the right to systematically kill, kidnap, beat, and harass Sikh people in Punjab (their homeland). Indian Police went around like blood thirsty militias and without any good evidence beat, killed, and tortured many Sikh families. Not to mention Indian Army persecuted many innocent Sikhs on one of their most holiest days at their Holy sites. Counter-terrorism does not give you the right to do this, some Indian Army personnel did fire indiscriminately.

And now a surd (Sikh) rules our country of 1 billion people (mostly non sikhs) and an army of a million - go figure

 

[vsdoc]

There is no bickering...nobody is calling the other names...in fact this has turned out to be very productive thread with members patiently listening each other out and going to lengths to explain their stand.
The thread did start out with a bit of flamebait as usual like above but look at the posts...theres hardly any hard feeling there...I guess this is an example of how a sensitive topic can be handled with a bit of patience to make it a productive discussion. We still stand united.

My two pence...

Let me add my own two pence to yours bro ..... my sentiments exactly. The Indians here, even though with divergent views, and some of them quite closely connected by faith, have come out with shining colors and given an excellent account of ourselves, in spite of attempts to foment negative passions at regular intervals. In a way it is a microsm of whats happening in real life, and as an Indian, it gives me immense confidence for the future of my country and pride in my countrymen. I do not see it as bickering. I do not see anyone taking a hard stance nor the discussion degenerating into tu tu main main. I say its in fact quite a cathartic exercise for all of us ..... and we need to thank a Pakistani brother for starting it, and making significant contributions at regular intervals.

Hindu, Sikhs, Christians, Jains, Buddhists, Muslims, Parsis ..... but first of all, above all ..... proud and true Indians.

Cheers, Doc

 

[A1Kaid]

Let me add my own two pence to yours bro ..... my sentiments exactly. The Indians here, even though with divergent views, and some of them quite closely connected by faith, have come out with shining colors and given an excellent account of ourselves, in spite of attempts to foment negative passions at regular intervals. In a way it is a microsm of whats happening in real life, and as an Indian, it gives me immense confidence for the future of my country and pride in my countrymen. I do not see it as bickering. I do not see anyone taking a hard stance nor the discussion degenerating into tu tu main main. I say its in fact quite a cathartic exercise for all of us ..... and we need to thank a Pakistani brother for starting it, and making significant contributions at regular intervals.

Hindu, Sikhs, Christians, Jains, Buddhists, Muslims, Parsis ..... but first of all, above all ..... proud and true Indians.

Cheers, Doc

Thanks for painting a rosy picture, next time please stay on topic this is not about how proud you feel about your country or you delivering a 'sales pitch' about Indian patriotism...Now no more of your off-topic posts, thanks.



We are discussing a very serious event in Sikh-Hindu history.


Now back on topic.

"we can not afford to be as ruthless as the perpetrators of violence if they ask for it...as far as dealing with our internal issues is concerned."-paritosh

"Perpetrators of violence" well that's a two way street, both Indian police/army and apparently Sikh militants were fighting one another.

Though it is clear that the real and most vicious "perpetrator of violence" was the Hindu dominant Indian state through the Indian Army who assaulted the Sikh Holy Temple and the Indian Police who looted and allowed angry Hindu mobs to ravage the Sikh population, rape, kill, and kidnap Sikh families.


Do you think it was appropriate for the Indian state and PM. Indira Gandhi to launch this offensive during the Sikh Holiest day when many Sikh pilgrims would be in attendance?


Launching a military offensive at such a time is CALLING for MORE causalities...

 

[paritosh]

Thanks for painting a rosy picture, next time please stay on topic this is not about how proud you feel about your country or you delivering a 'sales pitch' about Indian patriotism...Now no more of your off-topic posts, thanks.

A1kaid...if him just going off-topic was the problem...you could have said that in just one line.It is not prudent being rude without provocation.

"Perpetrators of violence" well that's a two way street, both Indian police/army and apparently Sikh militants were fighting one another.

Though it is clear that the real and most vicious "perpetrator of violence" was the Hindu dominant Indian state through the Indian Army who assaulted the Sikh Holy Temple and the Indian Police who looted and allowed angry Hindu mobs to ravage the Sikh population, rape, kill, and kidnap Sikh families.

The Indian govt. did not attack the golden temple because it was a Sikh place of worship...the Indian govt. was not against the Sikhs...it was against the separatists housed in the golden temple complex.
let me re-phrase it....
We were against the separatists not because they were Sikhs but because they wanted to liberate the Punjab region from India.
that is why you'd see that in the entire length of this thread...Indians have somewhat defended the golden temple episode but all have unequivocally condemned the riots of '84 as they had a communal basis.Your usage of phrases like "Hindu dominated GoI" shows that you either don't understand what the op bluestar was about....or deliberately want to fuel a communal showdown of sorts on this thread.

Do you think it was appropriate for the Indian state and PM. Indira Gandhi to launch this offensive during the Sikh Holiest day when many Sikh pilgrims would be in attendance?


Launching a military offensive at such a time is CALLING for MORE causalities...

yes the criticism of the timing of operation is of common knowledge in India.
but I'd like you to read Kuldeep Singh Brar's version of the events too...
"Before the operation started, General Brar walked around the Golden Temple in civilian clothes, and saw the militants and the barricades. His former superior, retired Major General Shabeg Singh, who led the militants, saw him taking rounds, and knew that he was up to something.[7] According to General Brar, the Shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee (SGPC), which is supposed to have the managerial control of the temple, had lost the control of situation.

Since the afternoon, the army kept asking the militants to surrender, using the public address system. The militants were asked to send the pilgrims out of the temple premises to the safety, before they start fighting the army. However, nothing happened till 7 PM.[7] General Brar then asked the police, if they could send emissaries inside to help get the civilians out, but the police said that anyone sent inside would be killed by the militants. They believed that the militants were keeping the pilgrims inside to stop the army from entering the temple. Finally, around a hundred sick and old people were let out. These people informed the army that the others were not being allowed to come out.[7]

When asked about why the army entered the temple premises just after Guru Arjan's martyrdom day (when the number of devotees is much higher), General Brar said that it was just a coincidence.[8] The operation had to be completed in a short time, before dawn. Otherwise, exaggerated messages of army besieging the temple would have attracted mobs to the temple premises. The army could not have fired upon these civilians. More importantly, Pakistan would have come in the picture, declaring its support for Khalistan.[7]

General Brar talked to his men (many of whom were Sikhs) personally on the morning on 5 June 1984, and told them what they planned to do and why they were doing it.[9] He explained to them that it was not a mission against any religion, but against some militants who had defiled the sacred temple. He told his men that they may opt out of the operation, if they wished to. General Brar later said that none of his men, including Sikhs, walked away. In fact, in the unit commanded by Lieutenant Colonel Mohammad Israr (whose ten guards later led the first unit into the temple premises), the Sikh Officer Second Lieutenant Jasbir Singh Raina, raised his hand, and said that he wished to be the first one to enter the Golden Temple to wipe out the militants who had defiled the holiest Sikh shrine.[9]

On the night of 5 June 1984, General Brar's troops stormed the temple premises. General Brar had six infantry battalions and a detachment of commandos under his command. Four of the six senior commanders of his forces were Sikhs.[10] General Brar repeatedly asked his soldiers not to fire in the direction of the Harmindar Sahib, even if the militants fired from that side. He later stated that there was no damage to Harmindar Sahib, except a couple of bullet holes that could have been the militants' fire or odd stray fire from the soldiers.[7]

To prevent any damage to the Akal Takht, General Brar's soldiers initially tried to lob stun grenades that momentarily stun people without causing any collateral damage. However, Akal Takht was completely sealed, and there was no way to lob the stun grenades inside.[7] When his soldiers tried crawling towards the Akal Takht, several of them were killed by the militants' fire. General Brar later said in an interview that Bhindranwale and his immediate accomplices had shifted to the first floor of the Akal Takht, and this was against the tenets of Sikhism, since no one is allowed to stay above the Guru Granth Sahib.[7]

According to General Brar, tanks with huge halogen lights were brought in "to illuminate the Akal Takht, so that the soldiers could see where they were going and to momentarily blind the militants in the glare of the lights".[7]

General Brar's troops were finally successful in removing the militants from the Akal Takht, and both Shabeg Singh and Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale were killed during the operation."

 

[EyelessInGaza]

.......

Though it is clear that the real and most vicious "perpetrator of violence" was the Hindu dominant Indian state through the Indian Army who assaulted the Sikh Holy Temple and the Indian Police who looted and allowed angry Hindu mobs to ravage the Sikh population, rape, kill, and kidnap Sikh families.

Operation Blue Star was a response to burgeoning religious fundamentalism, perpetrated by a man who wanted to create a state within a state.

If every single Temple, Mosque, Church or Gurdwara in India were to be carpet bombed to flush out those who want to rule in terror, I would be first in line to support it.

Countries need institutional courage to take such a step; I'm glad we had it back then.

Blue Star was not a shame; the carnage inflicted upon Sikhs in the aftermath of Mrs G's assassination was a national disgrace.

How and why India survived that period is another story, but it speaks to the fundamental ability of our society to cope, and the integration of Sikhs in the overall tapestry of Indian culture.

Do you think it was appropriate for the Indian state and PM. Indira Gandhi to launch this offensive during the Sikh Holiest day when many Sikh pilgrims would be in attendance?

Launching a military offensive at such a time is CALLING for MORE causalities...

Perhaps the timing was inappropriate; I do not know, you may be right. Possibly they could have avoided civilian casualties.

But they would have to do it some time, and the army casualties would have been about the same, IMO. I knew a couple of guys who were there; they were going barefoot, with explicit orders not to fire back, into narrow corridors against machine guns that had been sited/ positioned by a retired Indian major general.

 

[zombie]

Enough of this nonsense. You can continue to troll. Your "high quality" you-tube videos posted as information for discussion shows your agenda to anyone. You are just too pathetic to not even be subtle.
Hindu India bashing minorities
Sikh holocaust
Indian state terrorism against minorities
Idiot Brar trying to cover up operation
When you have already made your point to chew on whats your point of "discussion" as a pakistani?

AS for discussion - definitely most Indians by now know the role that Pakistan(with some good help from anti-Indira US establishment at that time) had to play in this episode which created problems for their own community and others. Indians-forget just Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, Christians, even Muslims, have learnt by now not to get fooled by some Pakistanis crocodile tears and goading. Unknowingly you'll managed to unite Indians and make them wary of Pakistan even more. So there was some good outcome from this after all..

 

[toxic_pus]

Though it is clear that the real and most vicious "perpetrator of violence" was the Hindu dominant Indian state through the Indian Army who assaulted the Sikh Holy Temple and the Indian Police who looted and allowed angry Hindu mobs to ravage the Sikh population, rape, kill, and kidnap Sikh families.

The truth, my dear friend, is slightly different. [All quotes below are from Amritsar: Mrs Gandhi's Last Battle, by Mark Tully and Satish Jacob]

“Just before the powers [Perspective: President’s rule was declared in Punjab. When it failed, police was give special powers] were announced a prominent Sikh, H.S.Manchanda, was shot in broad daylight when his car stopped at traffic lights in the middle of Delhi. Manchanda was the President of the pro-Congress(Indira) Delhi Sikh Temple Mangagement Committee, and an outspoken critic of the Akali Dal Morcha. On the day the new powers were given to the police Hindus were ‘taught a lesson’ by the killing of the prominent member of the right-wing Bharatiya Janata Pary, the successor to the Jan Sangh. The next day supporters of Mrs Gandhi were given a ‘sharp’ warning by the killing of V.N.Tiwari, a professor of Punjabi who was a Congress (Indira) Member of Parliament. He was shot in his house in Chandigarh. On 22nd April an air-force officer was hacked to death in his home. This was the first time that a serving officer of the defence forces had been killed.

On 30th April one of the prime targets on Bhindranwale’s hit-list, the former Deputy Superintendent of Police Bachan Singh, was shot dead in Amritsar……After killing the retired police officer the terrorists shot his wife and daughter who were riding in a rickshaw behind him……Then came another terrorist attack which showed that whole of India that no special powers could help the government or the police – Bhindranwale was above law.

On 12th May Romesh Chander, the son and successor of the editor of the Punjab Kesari group of newspapers, Lala Jagat Narain, was shot dead driving through the streets of the industrial city of Jullundur……On the eve of his death Romesh Chander had written in a prophetic vein, ‘No one knows whose trun will come next. All Punjab has become a slaughter house.’……During March and April at least eighty other people were killed and 107 injured in terrorist attacks by Bhindranwale’s men……By now the terror had spread throughout the countryside. This was largely because of the young men who had taken seriously the Sant’s injunction to buy arms and motorcycles and attack the enemies of the Sikhs. On 26th April, for instance, young Sikh motorcyclists shot a Hindu commission agent in the village Bhikiwind in Amritsar District and a Hindu Shopkeeper in the village of Smadh Bhai in Faridkot district. Satish Jacob visited the village of Bhikiwind and found the doors of most of the Hindu shops locked. The owners and their families had fled to the neighbouring state of Haryana. Bhindranwale’s plans to alter the population of Punjab in favour of the Sikhs were bearing fruit.

By April 1984 it began to look as though he might succeed in clearing the Hindus out of Punjab. Not only were the small time traders, money-lenders and shopkeepers in the villages fleeing, confidence among Hindu businessmen in the cities was collapsing too.

…many Hindu industrialists were planning to move their factories to the neighbouring state of Haryana…Fear even drove many Hindus to adopt Sikh dress. A retired school teacher in Amritsar told Satish Jacob that he now wore a turban when he went out for a walk.” (pg 122 – 131)

“According to the government’s figures, Bhindranwale’s terrotists had already killed 165 Hindus and Nirankaris in the twenty-two months since the launching of the Akali Morcha. They had also killed 39 Sikhs because they had opposed Bhindranwale. The total number of deaths in violent incidents, including so-called ‘encounters’ between the plice and Sikhs, riots, and the accident at the level crossing in which 34 supporters of the Morcha were killed, was 410. The injured numbered 1,180” (pg 147)​

Do you think it was appropriate for the Indian state and PM. Indira Gandhi to launch this offensive during the Sikh Holiest day when many Sikh pilgrims would be in attendance?

During the run-up to Operation Blue Star, Punjab had descended into complete mayhem. Bhindranwale and his goons were carrying out a regime of systematic terror and murder to cleanse Punjab of Hindus. In spite of that, storming The Golden Temple was not a priority to Mrs Gandhi. Instead, she attempted a last ditch negotiation with the Akali Morcha. Bhindranwale was the de facto leader of the Morcha.

“Mrs Gandhi had been insisting that Punjab could only have Chandigarh if the Akalis were prepared to surrender the two tahsils of Fazilka and Abohar to Haryana in exchange [Perspective: Akalis’ demand were that Chandigarh should be part of Punjab, which till date is part of Haryana. This was among several other demands, arising from Anadpur Sahid Resolution.]. These were the terms of her original settlement, which had never been implemented. She now agreed that only the town of Abohar need be surrendered but maintained that this award should be made by a commission so that the Hindus of Haryana would not see it as a surrender. She promised that the findings of the commission would be guaranteed in advance. This was not good enough for the Akali leaders. They needed an announcement of the settlement by the government, not a commission if they were to convince their followers that the Morcha had been a success and could be called off.

This last round of negotiations was conducted on Mrs Gandhi’s side by her External Affairs Minister, Narasimha Rao, with the team of three administrators who were the members of the Punjab Think Tank…” (pg 137)​

Mrs Gandhi was even willing to tone down her conditions and even went to the extent of guaranteeing that the commission would be cooked up in favour of the Sikhs. But Akalis needed a face saver, more than anything. Bhindranwale had different plans altogether.

“The government had stipulated that he(Bhindranwale) must agree before they would announce it……Bhindranwale would not accept that the settlement met the Morcha’s demand……and so the whole settlement collapsed” (pg 138)​

Bhindranwale’s demand was that the entire Ananpur Sahib Resolution be implemented in toto. This would mean creating a country within a country and was naturally not acceptable to the GoI. Only after this last negotiation broke down, did Mrs Gandhi finally on 2nd June gave the go ahead. On that day in a speech addressed to the nation, via All India Radio, Mrs Gandhi made a final appeal to Akali leaders to “call off their threatened agitation and accept the framework of the peaceful settlement”, which was offered to them. The die was already cast by then. On 30th May, Major-General Brar was already ordered to move his Division. However, on 3rd May, Curfew was lifted in order to allow Sikhs to celebrate the martyrdom of Guru Arjun, and taking advantage of this, near about 200 militants slipped out from The Golden Temple. When the news of this escape reached the HQ, curfew was again reimposed in the evening and the District Commissioner, who was sympathetic to Bhindranwale, was transferred. It was then that Army opened fire, for the first time in the whole quagmire. Prior to the Army, the CRPF and local police had fired at The Golden Temple on 1st June, in order to draw fire from the Bhindrenwale’s men, so that he would reveal his strategic positions. It was, however a failure and his men showed extreme restraint. On 3rd June, Punjab was cut off from the rest of world and on the night of 5th June, the Operation Blue Star kick started.

The date, 5th June was a pure coincidence. The news of escape of 200 hardcore, trained militants, and the fear of uprising in the countryside, led to the very hurried attack on the Temple.

“The government’s explanation for starting the operation on a day so sacred to the Sikhs with all the risks of involving innocent pilgrims in the battle was that Bhindranwale was about to start a well-organised campaign to murder Hindus in villages throughout the Punjab. A senior official of the Home Ministry told Satish Jacob that intelligence officers had intercepted messages from Bhindranwale and Shahbeg Singh instructing their followers to start killing ‘en masse’ on 5th June. He also said Bhindranwale had plans to kill all Punjabi MPs and Members of the State Assembly. Although the government has never provided any hard evidence to back up its allegation that Bhindranwale was planning a massacre of Hindus, it is true to say that the pace of the killings was accelerating alarmingly. Twenty-three people were killed in the twenty-four hours before Mrs Gnadhi made her broadcast.” (pg 148)

“The army did have good reason to fear the Sikhs in the countryside. The night after the Golden Temple was surrounded [by the army] a crowd of angry Sikhs from villages near Amritsar stormed into the Sultanwind area of the city and burned down the shops and small factories of Hindus. The strict curfew imposed but the army had proved ineffective. As tension built up throughout Punjub, army helicopters also spotted groups of angry Sikhs gathering in many different places. Troops were able to disperse them but not without loss of life.” (pg 151)​

Launching a military offensive at such a time is CALLING for MORE causalities...

Evacuating the pilgrims from the hostels, within the Temple complex was also out of question.

“The tragedy could only have been avoided if the hostels had been evacuated before the attack on the Golden Temple complex started; but that was easier said than done. To evacuate the hostels first would have meant separating the two complexes. But both Bhindranwale’s men and his old rivals the Babbar Khalsa had taken up positions overlooking the hostels and indeed inside the hostels themselves. Bhindranwale had also sent his interpreter Harminder Singh Sandhu to Longowal’s office to prevent him surrendering. So any attempt to separate the two complexes would almost certainly have led to a battle in the hostels. Then battle could easily have spread to the Temple too, forcing the army to enter Bhindranwale’s stronghold before it was ready to do so.

A more serious problem was that of time. Separating the two complexes would have delayed the main battle and Lieutenant-General Sunderji who was in overall command felt he could not rake the risk. From the moment that the army laid siege to the Golden Temple on 3rd June he was obsessed with speed because he was afraid of that uprising in the countryside. Lieutenant-General Sunderji explained his fears tot the press after the operation.

“We knew that they had plans to utilize the innocent people, the religious-minded innocent people in the countryside. That plan was to incite these people to come to the Golden Temple in thousands and to literally swamp the surroundings as well as the inside, thereby preventing most effectively any action we could have taken to flush the terrorists out. This was confirmed information. We even intercepted messages going out to the countryside. So any extended cordon or siege would have ended up with this type of mass movement.””​

(pg 151)​

The hostel complex was however evacuated in the middle of the attack on Temple. Also, laying siege of the temple, medieval style, was out of question, because of the fear of uprising in the countryside. Army had to act swiftly.

Mr A1Kaid, please stop hate mongering through half-baked theories and misinformation.

 

[vsdoc]

AS for discussion - definitely most Indians by now know the role that Pakistan(with some good help from anti-Indira US establishment at that time) had to play in this episode which created problems for their own community and others. Indians-forget just Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, Christians, even Muslims, have learnt by now not to get fooled by some Pakistanis crocodile tears and goading. Unknowingly you'll managed to unite Indians and make them wary of Pakistan even more. So there was some good outcome from this after all..

I had exactly the same opinion on the efforts of another Pakistani and his brothers on 26/11.

A1Kaid, I am as proud of my country as you are of yours. The difference is that I do not need to put down Pakistan or Pakistanis or try and foment bad blood within Pakistanis on this forum to feel proud and good to be an Indian.

I hope you can appreciate this difference, and if my post is taken as off topic, it was in response to yours.

Back to the topic now.

Cheers, Doc

 

[A1Kaid]

I had exactly the same opinion on the efforts of another Pakistani and his brothers on 26/11.

A1Kaid, I am as proud of my country as you are of yours. The difference is that I do not need to put down Pakistan or Pakistanis or try and foment bad blood within Pakistanis on this forum to feel proud and good to be an Indian.

I hope you can appreciate this difference, and if my post is taken as off topic, it was in response to yours.

Back to the topic now.

Cheers, Doc

I think you are misconstruing the information.


" I do not need to put down Pakistan or Pakistanis or try and foment bad blood within Pakistanis on this forum to feel proud and good to be an Indian.
"

Well me neither, this is a topic about a historical event, Operation Blue Star. A horrible event for every Sikh in India who suffered by the Indian state. You talk about fomenting bad blood, but it was not me who shelled the Sikh Holy Temple or cause Operation Blue Star.

I am simply discussing this event, presenting information just as Indian members are presenting information, I am posting news reports, and footage so we can get to the depths of Operation Blue Star, because until now only the National Indian government side has been shown and reported (well mostly)...


But I see you Indian members are making personal insults, it truly shows how immature many of the members are.


You talk about appreciating this difference, there is little to appreciate especially with how members from your country behave on this forum.

Now I suggest we all go back on topic and we all had a fair chance to say our views.

 

[vsdoc]

A1Kaid, I think we both understand each other

Btw, slightly OT once again but have been meaning to ask you for some time now ..... who is the gentleman in your avtar?

Cheers, Doc

 

[Kasrkin]

Keep it clean from both sides. There is no need to comment on who is being a good boy and who isn’t. That’s for me to judge. Concentrate on the discussion; keep the flaming and emotion down on both sides.

 

[SSG VIPER]

Sir you will find more information on this at this site
Home | The Siege of Mecca

This also has a photogallery but I could not upload the photos.
Check this out also
Grand Mosque Seizure - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Also you will find pics of the US embassy being stormed in Islamabad after rumors that the US had bombed the Holy Mosque at Mecca.

are u retarded tht never happened no weapons were used idiot nor did they use any.Theose guys were gassed to death by pakistani commandoes no bullets were fired retard