Open Debate l Ex-UAE Mirage 2000-9s for PAF, aye or nay ?

[Kompromat]

Hello ladies and gents.

Currently we have 63 F_16s in total with the old block 15s being upgraded to Block-52 standards.

AEW&C = SAAB Erieye

A total of 250 JF-17 Thunders will be bought by the PAF in 3 blocks.

50 odd F-7PGs are likely to see service beyond 2020, mainly for OCU and not for frontline roles.

AEW&C = ZDK-3 Karakoram Eagle

If we exclude the F-7PGs which would be outdated by 2020 as per our threat analysis, we are left with 250 thunders + 65 F-16s (two more may join soon) = 315 Multirole Fighter jets.

315 Advance jets with force multipliers like AEW&C and IFR, Networked air defense is a 'good deterence' against our principle threat.

Since the FC-20 MMRCA's future is now bleak due to the economic mismanagment of the PPP govt, would it make sense for PAF to buy the 65 odd EX-UAE Mirage-2000-9s along with its weapons packag, as a 'stopgap' till 2025, when we might be able to procure or operationalize a 5th gen platform?

Those dash 9's are still very advanced, which would be able to datalink with our Eri Eyes, F-16s, JF-17s and other assets.

Please discuss.

* Strengths of such a procurement.
* Weaknesses of such a procurement
* Difficulties in creating the ground infrastructure.
* Maintainance
* Spareparts
* Refurbishment
* Operational effectivene* Operational effectivene* Operational effectivene* Operational effectiveness/role
* Price we should offer for them
* Pilot training
* Weapons package
* Any upgrades
* Cost to benefit ratio
___________________

Please keep it civil.

Aero.

 

[ejaz007]

Considering the number and capabilities of Mirage 2000 I would favor such a deal if sufficient amount of spares are provided with the planes.

So a YES from me.

 

[nomi007]

2000-9EAD 22
2000-9RAD 8
2000-9DAD 6
2000-9 20
2000-9D 12
Total 68

 

[shanixee]

few threads are already running referring to the M2K for Pakistan. no need for another thread

 

[Kompromat]

Considering the number and capabilities of Mirage 2000 I would favor such a deal if sufficient amount of spares are provided with the planes.

So a YES from me.

If the UAE sells them to us at a fair price, we can turn the Mirage rebuild factory into a Mirage-2000-9 refurbishment and spares facility.

PAF has highly competent flight maintainance crew, and i'm hopeful that it won't take them long to adapt to the Dash9's.

These jets are state of the art, right between our Block 52s and JF-17s. They will allow us to maintain a 'credible and potent, single engine Hi-Lo mix'.

Such a mix of Vipers,Mirages and Thunders, integrated along with AEW&C, EW assets and a Network Centric Air Defense net, would be enough to defeat the enemy air crafts inside 'our' airspace for the forseeable future.

@shanixee

If you have nothing to contibute here, then you are free to opt out.

 

[slapshot]

If I am correct and from the discussion that I have read around the internet, PAF in past was interested in this plane and tried to get it from UAE. Why PAF was not able to get the planes at that time? Considering that now we have our home grown Jet in similar class what would made Mirage 2000 stand out as candidate?

 

[Archie]

Its a good idea if you intend to use them as a replacement for F7PG
However u need to look at when UAE will sell them , since they need too would need replacement and i dont think Mirages will last beyond 2030

 

[khanboy007]

I'd say yes....my reasons to support are

* Maintainance
* Spareparts
* Refurbishment

as we already have a setup for the mirages, this setup can be upgraded and utilized for the next 11 years at least....

IMO training pilots would not be much of a problem as it wont be a complete new setup/platform for them to operate

it's single engined too....PAF prefers single engined jets

and I am pretty sure these aircrafts havent been dragged and quenched to their full potential....so its pretty much top notch

I dont think cost of purchase would be an issue.....they may just accept a reasonable throw away price.

it's a worthy substitute for the F-7's and others of that class/era

as far as J-10's are concerned, they can be purchased to increase the no. of aircrafts in PAF, but I believe that the F-7's need a time out !!!!

 

[BDforever]

Hello ladies and gents.

Currently we have 63 F_16s in total with the old block 15s being upgraded to Block-52 standards.

AEW&C = SAAB Erieye

A total of 250 JF-17 Thunders will be bought by the PAF in 3 blocks.

50 odd F-7PGs are likely to see service beyond 2020, mainly for OCU and not for frontline roles.

AEW&C = ZDK-3 Karakoram Eagle

If we exclude the F-7PGs which would be outdated by 2020 as per our threat analysis, we are left with 250 thunders + 65 F-16s (two more may join soon) = 315 Multirole Fighter jets.

315 Advance jets with force multipliers like AEW&C and IFR, Networked air defense is a 'good deterence' against our principle threat.

Since the FC-20 MMRCA's future is now bleak due to the economic mismanagment of the PPP govt, would it make sense for PAF to buy the 65 odd EX-UAE Mirage-2000-9s along with its weapons packag, as a 'stopgap' till 2025, when we might be able to procure or operationalize a 5th gen platform?

Those dash 9's are still very advanced, which would be able to datalink with our Eri Eyes, F-16s, JF-17s and other assets.

Please discuss.

* Strengths of such a procurement.
* Weaknesses of such a procurement
* Difficulties in creating the ground infrastructure.
* Maintainance
* Spareparts
* Refurbishment
* Operational effectivene* Operational effectivene* Operational effectivene* Operational effectiveness/role
* Price we should offer for them
* Pilot training
* Weapons package
* Any upgrades
* Cost to benefit ratio
___________________

Please keep it civil.

Aero.

no to PAF, yes to BAF

 

[Donatello]

We have discussed this to death here on PDF.

The time for Mirage 2000s was back in 1990s or early 2000s. Not now.

India already operates these and is upgrading them, plus if IAF goes with Rafale, then it will be extremely hard for PAF to upgrade/buy spares for these Mirage 2000 as they would be hesitant to upset the Indians.

Also, makes no sense to acquire a platform that your arch enemy already has decades of experience on.


The only advantage it could bring is that PAF can acquire French BVR and WVR weaponary, but considering we already have Chinese and American, plus Brazil/South Africa, PAF seems pretty diversified.

Save cash. Buy J-10B/C.

J-10 is huge, you can play so much with it's avionics/ECM/EW suite etc. not to mention no strings attached. It would be our own Baby like JF-17. We can do whatever the hell we want with it.

A small but flexible airforce can overcome a large but rigid force. This is what PAF's motto should be from now on.

 

[rockstar08]

i dont think it will be a good idea , it will be burden on Paf , plus our enemy is looking for aircrafts like su30mki and rafale , we should use this money for j-10b or j-11

 

[rockstarIN]

Pros

-As good as F-16 Blk52
-Have more than 20+ years of life even if PAF gets it in 2016-17.
-Adding more fire power in A2A, the MICA missiles as well as good A2G capable.
-Good if UAE sells it in cheap rate, directly from France will be a problem.

Cons

-French might not support/allow the transfer to Pakistan with high level weapon system(specially A2G)
-Have to pay high price for additional weapons to France as they hare known for such things.
-Indian experience with the jet for decades.
-Can be used only a stop gap, since production lines are closed unlike F-16, no chance of further upgrade.
-Logistic problems.


Better to buy J-10 with those money, as it can be upgraded in future.

 

[Imran Khan]

no not at all move on now please to home work.

 

[Kompromat]

@Donatello

We need a replacement for the F-7PG's, they too now are 16 years old.

The point is to have a 'cheap stopgap'. If the UAE is willing to sell them at a throw away price, we should buy them.

Spares issue can be solved by upgrading the existing Mirage RF. Our pilots too have flown these Mirages, as well as our own Mirage experiance, should suffice. PAF has proven to absorb different technologies and these Dash-9s are not totally unfamiliar to us.

French will sell anything once India is 'locked in' the Rafale contract.

@rockstarIN

The trick is the price and the road to a new jet from China, be it the FC-20 or J-31, is wide open into the future.

Again these dash-9s will be used as a stop gap to allow for a 5th generation jet.

 

[bc040400065]

Well As i read it four years ago French wanted to sell rafale to UAE and UAE wanted french to find a buyer for their M2K-9, so there was Pressure from the french on PAF to buy those mirages and in return French would have provided the avionics for JFT and MICA BVRs. But the deal did not get through may be because of Money issue and high price of french avionics for JFT.
My personal take is that PAF should have bought these Mirages way back in 1981 because they had the experience and infrastructure for Mirages. If i had the choice i would have asked PAF to Buy M2K rather F16 way back then. That would have meant that the Indians would have been left with no other choice but to stick with Russian jets.
But Even now If UAE agrees to sell them with weapons package included i think PAF should consider it. As i have read that Majority of Pilots flying those M2K-9 are PAF pilots on deputation. (Please correct me if i m wrong) So there should not be an issue with training, and Mirage rebuild factory can be upgraded to maintain these jets.
But there is no money so how will that work out is the main issue , may be Emirati president Enjoying vacations in Rahim yar Khan now a days can gift them or sell them at discounted price??