Open Debate l Ex-UAE Mirage 2000-9s for PAF, aye or nay ?

[Manindra]

A new MKI will cost 60 Million USD and we have to wait till 2019, if we order now

Now you are using lamest excuse as per your information brand new Su-30 MKI cost us $ 75 million & if UAE choose to sale Miraje to us then it would not happen before 2018 & phased manner (Rafale replace them in UAE Airforce).

They are more advance than the upgraded Mirage 2000 of IAF

This is the plain wrong.
Their Mirage 2000-5 are advance than our non upgraded one , our upgraded Mirage are most advance Mirage in the service.

Since we are unlikely to induct more than 36 Rafales, I say we should buy the UAE Mirages, if they offer them.
They will be a good replacement for IAF Jaguar IS, half of which will be retired by 2026

Jaguar would not retire until 2035 except older airframes & currently under major upgradation.

The main reason for purchase of Mirage 2000 is

• Performance : As we lack punch in Air to ground role.

Air Superiority : Su-30 MKI, MIG 29
Interceptor : MIG 21 later Tejas
CAP : Jaguar
A2G : Mirage 2000, MIG 27 (Halted & due to retire in 2017)

So, we need a punch in A2G which are left by due to early retirement of MIG 27.

• Cost : As we are already operating Mirage 2000 so we can save cost significantly with common training & infrastructure as well as single engine Mirage 2000 have less operating cost & high availability rate compared to other fighters of IAF.
• Dwindling Squadrons : As our Fighters Squadron nos. dwindling day by day we would get some relief by inducting a good 4th generation fighter

 

[Windjammer]

current indian offer per UAE M2K is said to be close to 25million$$s per plane

I don't know about the current offer but previous offer was considered as an insult by UAE.

 

[Manindra]

current indian offer per UAE M2K is said to be close to 25million$$s per plane

Sir Ji if we are going boy a second hand Mirage (even if its airframe have logged only 1000 hrs) then we would buy LCA instead.
If you want to check, just buy a new car & after one day try to sell & check the price difference.
Well I think its not credible information.

 

[Archie]

Now you are using lamest excuse as per your information brand new Su-30 MKI cost us $ 75 million & if UAE choose to sale Miraje to us then it would not happen before 2018 & phased manner (Rafale replace them in UAE Airforce).



This is the plain wrong.
Their Mirage 2000-5 are advance than our non upgraded one , our upgraded Mirage are most advance Mirage in the service.


Jaguar would not retire until 2035 except older airframes & currently under major upgradation.

The main reason for purchase of Mirage 2000 is

• Performance : As we lack punch in Air to ground role.

Air Superiority : Su-30 MKI, MIG 29
Interceptor : MIG 21 later Tejas
CAP : Jaguar
A2G : Mirage 2000, MIG 27 (Halted & due to retire in 2017)

So, we need a punch in A2G which are left by due to early retirement of MIG 27.

• Cost : As we are already operating Mirage 2000 so we can save cost significantly with common training & infrastructure as well as single engine Mirage 2000 have less operating cost & high availability rate compared to other fighters of IAF.
• Dwindling Squadrons : As our Fighters Squadron nos. dwindling day by day we would get some relief by inducting a good 4th generation fighter

Half the Jaguar IS in Indian fleet were inducted between 1986-88
They won't last beyond 40 years in service

UAE operates Mirage 2000-9
Compared to Mirage 2000-5 of IAF
UAE mirages have 20-30 years of airframe life left in them, mainly because they have served as hanger queens for most of their life, barely flying 80 hrs a year

 

[batmannow]

Half the Jaguar IS in Indian fleet were inducted between 1986-88
They won't last beyond 40 years in service

UAE operates Mirage 2000-9
Compared to Mirage 2000-5 of IAF
UAE mirages have 20-30 years of airframe life left in them, mainly because they have served as hanger queens for most of their life, barely flying 80 hrs a year

We going for the beast SU35 ?LOL

 

[GURU DUTT]

I don't know about the current offer but previous offer was considered as an insult by UAE.

and who told you that ... defnce minister of UAE

it was dassulat who were asking UAE to hold the deal till indian MRCA is finalised

Sir Ji if we are going boy a second hand Mirage (even if its airframe have logged only 1000 hrs) then we would buy LCA instead.
If you want to check, just buy a new car & after one day try to sell & check the price difference.
Well I think its not credible information.

you are right but a low milage mint condition second hand toyota corolla is better than a honda amaze specially when both are of the same price

 

[Manindra]

Half the Jaguar IS in Indian fleet were inducted between 1986-88
They won't last beyond 40 years in service

As I already said that , 60 Jaguar would remain until 2035 & Mirage is lot more advance than Jaguar.

UAE operates Mirage 2000-9
Compared to Mirage 2000-5 of IAF

You are saying upgraded one which is not, check the specifications of upgraded IAF Mirage.
Non upgraded IAF Mirage was inferior to UAE one nobody is denying that.

UAE mirages have 20-30 years of airframe life left in them, mainly because they have served as hanger queens for most of their life, barely flying 80 hrs a year

I am not disputing this claim I am just saying that we can't purchase Su-30 MKI if Mirage deal fails as both are in different league (You post Su-30 MKI production schedule as excuse )
Flanker are mainly air superiority but Mirage have good A2G capability.

 

[GURU DUTT]

We going for the beast SU35 ?LOL

good luck with that but be prepaired to dhish owt more on maintanence and spares in first five years of keeping the su-35 than its actual costs

 

[Manindra]

you are right but a low milage mint condition second hand toyota corolla is better than a honda amaze specially when both are of the same price

But you won't give price more than Amaze for previous generation Second hand Corolla.

 

[batmannow]

good luck with that but be prepaired to dhish owt more on maintanence and spares in first five years of keeping the su-35 than its actual costs

Depends on what kind of technical force is behind the maintanence ?
We had the best one still flying the old goodies of 80s ?
While India ?

 

[Maarkhoor]

Pakistan will not / Should not buy Mirages reason
1- 60 F-16 maintenance / Spare Parts cost 15 to 17 Million USD a year
2- 60 Mirage 2000 maintenance / Spare Parts cost 40 to 45 Million USD a year

 

[GURU DUTT]

But you won't give price more than Amaze for previous generation Second hand Corolla.

depends on where and how i intend to use the corolla a well menatined good condition corolla with low milage even today is worth more than a a brand new amaze (interior space and comfort & furgal yet a very powerfull engine) and same goes with UAE mirages with just 1000 flying hours on the clock even if the upgraded UAE mirages end up 10 million more than a basic LCA i think its better to go with mirages as its plug and play and no hassle to create new mentainence and training infra or spares or wepons need i say more

 

[Windjammer]

and who told you that ... defnce minister of UAE

it was dassulat who were asking UAE to hold the deal till indian MRCA is finalised

And are you a spokesperson for Dassault, ???
Do you even know how long this episode has been going on .
UAE has got Mirages sitting in hangars gathering dust and you think they would hold back a deal only because Dassault has asked them...... makes a lot of sense.

 

[Maarkhoor]

Mirages in U.A.E extensively used in various operations and petrol they don't buy planes to put them in hanger i just checked with my source no mirages in U.A.E below then 3500 flight hours and many need urgent overhauls thats why they considering to sell these birds again to avoid extra maintenance costs because they wanted new birds even France looking buyers for these birds.

 

[ice_man]

Pakistan sadly doesn't have the cash to buy these fighters.

It would mean diverting a major source of funds from JF-17s and we are not prepared to do that currently.