Open Debate l Ex-UAE Mirage 2000-9s for PAF, aye or nay ?

[Basel]

@Basel - Mirage2k-9s are good till 2030.

You are right but in long term they are not good option as France will not sell us spares due to Rafale deal with India and only handful of M2Ks were sold around the world when compared to F-16s so not easy to get spares like we get for M-3s or M-5s. Also it will not be a easy job to upgrade them as OEM will not be supporting us.

What happens after 2017

JF-17 will become on par of block-52s or even supersede if proper upgrades continues so no need for those M2K9s or old F-16s.

 

[Donatello]

Are seriously asking this question?



You forget who is the customer.... There is no switching planes, it will option of risking 8-12 billion dollars for say 800 million, if your logic suggests that as a good business sense, then you must be correct IAF is indeed doomed.

As far as the edge is concerned, it wont be Rafale, just as it never was the M2K in the past.

You people seriously lose the ability to comprehend? What we have been trying to say is that India cannot influence the french without getting shot in the foot itself. France, if they want, can sell equipment to BOTH India and Pakistan. Just like they have done in the past. The only leverage India has against is that they will cancel or reduce the deal. Well, do you really think India would do that? Because then you are devoid of a MRCA and puts your M2k upgrades in jeopardy. While France needs those billions and in no way is it willing to let that go away in favor of lesser, hundred of millions, India needs the planes too. What's the alternative? Typhoon? India would have to redo the whole process again, setting back by 2-3 years. If France sells to both India and Pakistan, France comes out on top, since they can use one situation to the advantage of the other. Either it's you and me getting nothing, or you and me getting what we want. M2Ks would be expensive even if they come second hand. Pakistan already has no restrictions on the purchase of F-16 BLK52s, so if it gets the cash, it can order or buy used F-16s and MLU them. The point is, PAF will get whatever it wants to maintain the balance.

 

[Kompromat]

You are right but in long term they are not good option as France will not sell us spares due to Rafale deal with India and only handful of M2Ks were sold around the world when compared to F-16s so not easy to get spares like we get for M-3s or M-5s. Also it will not be a easy job to upgrade them as OEM will not be supporting us.



JF-17 will become on par of block-52s or even supersede if proper upgrades continues so no need for those M2K9s or old F-16s.

Who says that France won't sell spares?

 

[Echo_419]

You are right but in long term they are not good option as France will not sell us spares due to Rafale deal with India and only handful of M2Ks were sold around the world when compared to F-16s so not easy to get spares like we get for M-3s or M-5s. Also it will not be a easy job to upgrade them as OEM will not be supporting us.



JF-17 will become on par of block-52s or even supersede if proper upgrades continues so no need for those M2K9s or old F-16s.

You mean to say in 3 years JF-17s latest Version will beat F-16's latest version

 

[Basel]

You people seriously lose the ability to comprehend? What we have been trying to say is that India cannot influence the french without getting shot in the foot itself

Man are living in fools heaven?? do you know French refuse to provide already discussed avionics package of JF-17s due to Indian MMRCA tender and they will continue to do that as India have tried to pursue every weapons seller not to sell weapons to Pakistan.

Who says that France won't sell spares?

French will not sell anything if India keep doing good business with them as India have successfully blocked JF-17s avionics deal previously.

You mean to say in 3 years JF-17s latest Version will beat F-16's latest version

Not latest version of F-16s, but Pakistani Block-50/52s even today they have weapons which F-16s can't carry, and Chinese AESA is also getting ready, which will make it most potent plane in PAF.

PAF should have asked govt. to pursue KSA to broker / finance deal with their Salex for advance AESA with TOT for JF-17s.

 

[Echo_419]

Man are living in fools heaven?? do you know French refuse to provide already discussed avionics package of JF-17s due to Indian MMRCA tender and they will continue to do that as India have tried to pursue every weapons seller not to sell weapons to Pakistan.



French will not sell anything if India keep doing good business with them as India have successfully blocked JF-17s avionics deal previously.



Not latest version of F-16s, but Pakistani Block-50/52s even today they have weapons which F-16s can't carry, and Chinese AESA is also getting ready, which will make it most potent plane in PAF.

Well PAF has really managed themselves good with what little money they have specially when compared to their Indian Counterparts

 

[Basel]

For any war (God forbid) before 2017 between India & Pakistan M2K9s can play major role in defending air space, attacking IN's CBG, providing CAP & Escort to strike package and specially night / stand off strike capability with black shaheen and adding some number of 4th gen planes with we have in little, but after 2017, JF-17 have matured and stealth option for PAF may have been on the horizon although may not be available till 2022.

 

[Kompromat]

What is the 'evidence' that the French refused to sell avionics due to India?

 

[Basel]

What is the 'evidence' that the French refused to sell avionics due to India?

I think it was discussed on PDF.

 

[Kompromat]

I think it was discussed on PDF.

Everything discussed here isn't a 'fact'.

 

[Basel]

Everything discussed here isn't a 'fact'.

That is the fact if not then why PAF have not purchased any thing from France since then?? they have not gone French way for any stuff since then.

Instead PAF preferred to go Brazil for missiles instead of France.

 

[Echo_419]

For any war (God forbid) before 2017 between India & Pakistan M2K9s can play major role in defending air space, attacking IN's CBG, providing CAP & Escort to strike package and specially night / stand off strike capability with black shaheen and adding some number of 4th gen planes with we have in little, but after 2017, JF-17 have matured and stealth option for PAF may have been on the horizon although may not be available till 2022.

There won't be a war btw India & Pakistan,India is to busy with economic growth specially after the advent of the new govt & PK is busy on her Western Front & Nawaz looks serious about the economy at most a short Border war can happen in J&K.

 

[Basel]

There won't be a war btw India & Pakistan,India is to busy with economic growth specially after the advent of the new govt & PK is busy on her Western Front & Nawaz looks serious about the economy at most a short Border war can happen in J&K.

Problem in India & Pakistan relations is that they can go from becoming so friendly to very hostile in fraction of time due to any incident.

 

[acetophenol]

Others did not performed as expected. Even IAF was not satisfied.

No,Others did good too.

 

[Kompromat]

We just purchased light attack helicopters from france.

@Basel