only 643 Billion Dollars is setting China's Economy apart from overtaking the US now

[Genesis]

You accuse PeterC of mischaracterizing China, but you are guilty of the same. Your description of the US and Canada is misinformed.

I'm in Canada right now, and I was in the states, not 3 month ago. Nothing is true everywhere, nothing is true for everyone. I think 10+ years in Canada and States qualifies me to say a few things about it?

 

[LeveragedBuyout]

I'm in Canada right now, and I was in the states, not 3 month ago. Nothing is true everywhere, nothing is true for everyone. I think 10+ years in Canada and States qualifies me to say a few things about it?

Then I have to ask: how did you conclude that no one drinks tap water in North America, or that our water must be boiled before consumption? That is false (unless you are speaking of drinking from a stream or river, in which case it's irrelevant, since all water from rivers or streams, no matter the country, should be treated before consumption).

Perhaps you should change your location flag to Canada to avoid future misunderstandings.

 

[tranquilium]

Also keep in mind the country the US knocked off the #1 spot over 100 years ago was China.

We'd still be #1 right now if we wanted...however manufacturing had such a devastating effect on our environment we had to offshore it (mostly to China). The cost outweighed the benefits.

Want low price goods and a clean environment..isn't going to happen if manufactured in the US.

I do believe we have discussed this issue a lot of times already. US investment is mostly in Canada, Mexico, than Europe. While US and China do trade quite a bit due to sheer size of both economies, their ties really isn't all that strong. There are also a large number of policies and regulation prevent US companies from off-shoring their factories to China.

 

[TaiShang]

We'd still be #1 right now if we wanted...however manufacturing had such a devastating effect on our environment we had to offshore it (mostly to China). The cost outweighed the benefits.

I guess it was more for a concern about costs than environment that the US manufacturing was outsourced to a great deal. The US had it share in terms of killing off certain species and polluting air, land and water -- until it was no longer cost-effective and technology and capital accumulation allowed high-end industry to stay in the US whereas medium-end, polluting industries left the country.

There is almost no reason to not believe that China will not take a similar path

So if you live somewhere where you have to boil your water (or use bottled), question the safety of your food due to some kind of contamination, live in some apartment with smoggy air, and wonder if you can pay the bills...I wouldn't call that much progress.

Indeed, in every states I lived in the US, people abstained from drinking tap water. I did not see people boil the water (probably the poor who are unable to buy bottled water do so), but they either purchased or, for those like me working in an office, the water came through a water dispenser.

The US is certainly ahead of China in terms of cleaner manufacturing, but, this does not mean that China will never get there. It is only a matter of scale of economy and time. If nothing else, pragmatist and materialist concern will dictate that. I did not notice the US doing anything out of high moral ideas. Do not anticipate China to refer to some Absolute Spirit or something. When China changes, it will be due to hard cold pragmatist calculations.

 

[OCguy]

So do I get in line for bread now, or will you let me know at least?

 

[tranquilium]

You accuse PeterC of mischaracterizing China, but you are guilty of the same. Your description of the US and Canada is misinformed.

Eh, I have drunk tap water in Canada before, but only in certain areas. For example, in the Toronto, I need to boil the water, but in Waterloo (a university town), the water quality is good enough to drink from the tap.

I do believe what what Genesis is trying to convene is that using boiling tap water as "environment concern" is plain silly. Boiling water is a good habit no matter where you are living.

 

[LeveragedBuyout]

I guess it was more for a concern about costs than environment that the US manufacturing was outsourced to a great deal. The US had it share in terms of killing off certain species and polluting air, land and water -- until it was no longer cost-effective and technology and capital accumulation allowed high-end industry to stay in the US whereas medium-end, polluting industries left the country.

There is almost no reason to not believe that China will not take a similar path



Indeed, in every states I lived in the US, people abstained from drinking tap water. I did not see people boil the water (probably the poor who are unable to buy bottled water do so), but they either purchased or, for those like me working in an office, the water came through a water dispenser.

Refraining from drinking tap water isn't the same as saying tap water isn't safe or potable. It's a consumer preference, like a preference for diamonds over cubic zirconia.

I am deeply troubled that you and Genesis, despite having lived in North America, believe that tap water needs to be boiled before it is consumed. Who told you that, or where did you learn that?

 

[OCguy]

Refraining from drinking tap water isn't the same as saying tap water isn't safe or potable. It's a consumer preference, like a preference for diamonds over cubic zirconia.

I am deeply troubled that you and Genesis, despite having lived in North America, believe that tap water needs to be boiled before it is consumed. Who told you that, or where did you learn that?

I wouldn't go down that road with members of questionable anecdotes such as the tap water nonsense.

In addition, even if what was stated was true, that Americans purchased bottled water, that speaks more to the resources and ability to spend discretionary income on something that they could safely obtain much cheaper.

 

[Azeri440]

Refraining from drinking tap water isn't the same as saying tap water isn't safe or potable. It's a consumer preference, like a preference for diamonds over cubic zirconia.

I am deeply troubled that you and Genesis, despite having lived in North America, believe that tap water needs to be boiled before it is consumed. Who told you that, or where did you learn that?

I agree with you , I visited many Canadian cities and US cities
most of the people I know drink tap water , specially in Canada
I don't know why someone would even bother boiling water in Canada when the quality of water is already so good

 

[LeveragedBuyout]

Eh, I have drunk tap water in Canada before, but only in certain areas. For example, in the Toronto, I need to boil the water, but in Waterloo (a university town), the water quality is good enough to drink from the tap.

I do believe what what Genesis is trying to convene is that using boiling tap water as "environment concern" is plain silly. Boiling water is a good habit no matter where you are living.

If that was what Genesis was trying to communicate, then he misunderstood Peter C's point. People must boil water when state protection of consumers is weak, when manufacturers can pollute the water supply without restraint. (Although boiling water will not be sufficient in such a scenario). In the US, there is residual pollution from previous decades of unrestricted manufacturing, but local governments thus treat the water before it is delivered through pipes to ensure it is safe to drink. This comes from environmental awareness, like imposing the additional costs of "clean coal" technologies to reduce pollution, or regulation to ban lead pipes or lead-based paint.

In other words, a citizenry without a government that has an environmental mindset will have to look out for itself (by boiling water, for example). When the citizenry demands the government address the environmental causes (reducing pollution, cleaning water sources, etc.), it will not have to perform that function itself.

I wouldn't go down that road with members of questionable anecdotes such as the tap water nonsense.

In addition, even if what was stated was true, that Americans purchased bottled water, that speaks more to the resources and ability to spend discretionary income on something that they could safely obtain much cheaper.

Yeah, it's so incorrect that it seems like trolling. Bottled water is processed for taste, not safety.

 

[TaiShang]

Refraining from drinking tap water isn't the same as saying tap water isn't safe or potable. It's a consumer preference, like a preference for diamonds over cubic zirconia.

In certain places, people believe so. Scientific or simply rumor, but, that's the practice. I lived almost three years in a southern state.

I am deeply troubled that you and Genesis, despite having lived in North America, believe that tap water needs to be boiled before it is consumed. Who told you that, or where did you learn that?

You are entitled to your belief. This is not to convert anybody's opinion. I suggest people not to buy your argument and my argument as given truth.

I said I did not see myself people boiling, but, I know there is a general mistrust of tap water, so, people, perhaps out of thicker wallets, buy either water dispensers or bottled- water.

I never drank the tap water in my dorm at the US university and the dorm authorities warned us not to. So, the school provided water-dispensers on each floor. Same used to go in my research office.

In Taiwan, by the way, I know for fact that people do boil it in Taipei if they had to use tap water. In China, similar as in Taipei; it depends.

I guess, it is the same in the US, as well.

 

[LeveragedBuyout]

In certain places, people believe so. Scientific or simply rumor, but, that's the practice. I lived almost three years in a southern state.



You are entitled to your belief. This is not to convert anybody's opinion. I suggest people not to buy your argument and my argument as given truth.

I said I did not see myself people boiling, but, I know there is a general mistrust of tap water, so, people, perhaps out of thicker wallets, buy either water dispensers or bottled- water.

I never drank the tap water in my dorm at the US university and the dorm authorities warned us not to. So, the school provided water-dispensers on each floor. Same used to go in my research office.

In Taiwan, by the way, I know for fact that people do boil it in Taipei if they had to use tap water. In China, similar in Taipei; it depends.

May I ask which states, and in what decade?

 

[TaiShang]

May I ask which states, and in what decade?

I will not say which state, but not in the 1920s. It was from 2008 to 2011 when I was at master's.

 

[LeveragedBuyout]

I will not say which state, but not in the 1920s. It was from 2008 to 2011 when I was master's.

If so, the university administrators were mistaken, or more likely, provided those directives due to legal liability issues. If the water were not safe to drink, it would not have been safe to use to brush one's teeth or use for showers.

I like bottled water, too. But the widespread presence of water dispensers and bottled water does not imply that tap water is unsafe. In towns and cities, tap water is unilaterally safe to drink in the US. In rural areas, where water may be drilled from the water table, it needs to be treated first, but then we might as well be debating the merits of well water, or river water.

 

[TaiShang]

If so, the university administrators were mistaken, or more likely, provided those directives due to legal liability issues. If the water were not safe to drink, it would not have been safe to use to brush one's teeth or use for showers.

I like bottled water, too. But the widespread presence of water dispensers and bottled water does not imply that tap water is unsafe. In towns and cities, tap water is unilaterally safe to drink in the US.

Alright. Good for you.