Nomination of DG ISI is my authority: PM Imran Khan says in cabinet meeting today

[HammerHead081]

Still you want to vote PMLN? After all their hypocrisies and lies have been exposed?

Just saying after a long time seeing a political party actually trying to expose this military and getting awam to talk about the puppet master who is controlling everyone in the back. The ISI and military has too much power and they are too involved in politics.

 

[Jungibaaz]

So you are basically saying that our military acts as the jury? Who gave them the authority to? With your shitty logic it also means that if a corrupt leadership comes on top of army then a good government won't survive as they won't let it.

No prime minister has ever survived the army, that's why none of them has ever completed a full term. I had high hopes for IK completing his term, we're more uncertain now.

 

[Norwegian]

No prime minister has ever survived the army, that's why none of them has ever completed a full term. I had high hopes for IK completing his term, we're more uncertain now.

So if PM Imran Khan completes 5 year term despite this conflict, it means he is a patriot unlike those PMs before him?

 

[HammerHead081]

No prime minister has ever survived the army, that's why none of them has ever completed a full term. I had high hopes for IK completing his term, we're more uncertain now.

Well, that is actually one of the fundamental issues with Pakistan. Its military not sticking to borders and meddling with politics. Sad sad state of affairs.

No wonder India went extremely aggressive against us as soon as Nawaz Sharif was ousted since they knew that IK has been selected by the army and now it has full control.

So if PM Imran Khan completes 5 year term despite this conflict, it means he is a patriot unlike those PMs before him?

He will definitely complete the term but he won't be selected again. At this moment, dono COAS and DG ISI haan mein haan milae gei just to make IK feel important but still go with their decision after manipulating him. Next elections IK will won't become the next PM.

 

[koolio]

Military tried to go over PM's head and again tried to undermine civilian government by making the decision of changing ISI head amongst themselves.

Doing the announcement of change before even the PM signed the papers. Its so pathetic in Pakistan what army is doing.

Its not the Army's fault, if the status quo parties were not corrupt in the first place, the Army would not have intervened so deep in Pakistani politics.

 

[VCheng]

Remember, remember, the twelfth of October.
History doesn't repeat, but it rhymes.
etc.

Some may prefer "jab geedar kee maut ati hey ..... ".



(and before anybody takes offence, PMIK himself used this idiom: Jab Geedar Ki Maut Aati Hai Tu Wo Shehr Ki Taraf Bhagta Hai - Imran Khan on Khawaja Asif's Tweet)

 

[HammerHead081]

Its not the Army's fault, if the status quo parties where not corrupt in the first place, the Army would not have intervened so deep in Pakistani politics.

Pakistan never reached political maturity when army continued to meddle in its political affairs since its inception. No leaders were made, everyone was selected one way or another. The whole democratic system is a sham controlled by a dictatorship.

 

[Jungibaaz]

So if PM Imran Khan completes 5 year term despite this conflict, it means he is a patriot unlike those PMs before him?

It's not easy to connect those two things. One is a possibility, the other is a value judgement.

If Imran Khan doesn't complete his full term, then it will be because the same history has repeated itself. Differences eventually develop between civilian PMs and GHQ, and it's usually the PM who ends up not completing their full term.

The only time in modern history that these differences didn't lead to the army overthrowing , or later destabilising the government, was the case of COAS Jahangir Karamat. Nawaz picked a fight with him on really pathetic grounds in my view, and he made the COAS resign. The COAS at that time could have chosen the coup route, but he quietly bowed out. Ironically, one year later the ex-COAS's replacement then removed NS from power via coup.

 

[VCheng]

Pakistan never reached political maturity when army continued to meddle in its political affairs since its inception. No leaders were made, everyone was selected one way or another. The whole democratic system is a sham controlled by a dictatorship.

Past, Present, and Future.

Claims of any meaningful change are FALSE.

 

[Jungibaaz]

Well, that is actually one of the fundamental issues with Pakistan. Its military not sticking to borders and meddling with politics. Sad sad state of affairs.

No wonder India went extremely aggressive against us as soon as Nawaz Sharif was ousted since they knew that IK has been selected by the army and now it has full control.

He will definitely complete the term but he won't be selected again. At this moment, dono COAS and DG ISI haan mein haan milae gei just to make IK feel important but still go with their decision after manipulating him. Next elections IK will won't become the next PM.

I think India's hostility is largely their own making, whatever happens in Pakistan, that country has been flirting with fascism since 2013. Even though Nawaz took a very personal route to try and mend fences with India, I'm not sure how much of a difference IK taking over made. Since 2018, we've had multiple offers and overtures to India to begin a dialogue, we had ceasefires and Kartarpur related efforts.

Pakistan never reached political maturity when army continued to meddle in its political affairs since its inception. No leaders were made, everyone was selected one way or another. The whole democratic system is a sham controlled by a dictatorship.

100%

 

[Norwegian]

Past, Present, and Future.
Claims of any meaningful change are FALSE.

Could Pakistan army get some kind of constitutional cover for its constant meddling in civilian matters? If it cannot, then civil-military relations would remain a mess.

 

[VCheng]

Pakistan army could get some kind of constitutional cover for its constant meddling in civilian matters? If it cannot, then civil-military relations would remain a mess.

Why? Keeping a civilian façade provides a convenient scapegoat when needed, and placates the global community. Very useful: Blame the bloody civilians for failures, praise the brave faujis for saving the country, always.


(Edit: I actually wrote an article on PDF on this very topic years ago, back when I cared.)

 

[Norwegian]

Pakistan never reached political maturity when army continued to meddle in its political affairs since its inception. No leaders were made, everyone was selected one way or another. The whole democratic system is a sham controlled by a dictatorship.

Maybe it is because Pakistan army doesn't trust civilian leaderships competence to run State of Pakistan? Judging from history, both civilian and army run govts have been a constant failure for Pakistan.

Why? Keeping a civilian façade provides a convenient scapegoat when needed, and placates the global community. Very useful: Blame the bloody civilians for failures, praise the brave faujis for saving the country, always.

So the solution to this problem is that civilians stop boot polishing and boycott all political setups run by the army generals?
تالی دونوں ہاتھوں سے بجتی ہے

 

[VCheng]

So the solution to this problem is that civilians stop boot polishing and boycott all political setups run by the army generals?

We seek solutions only for those issues which are regarded as problems. There is no problem with the current system, hence there is no need for a solution.

 

[Jungibaaz]

Could Pakistan army get some kind of constitutional cover for its constant meddling in civilian matters? If it cannot, then civil-military relations would remain a mess.

The cover is not necessary, they will never openly interfere. Gone are the days that they could march into power, seize PTV etc. Back then, the constitution didn't matter, you walk in and suspend it.

As for the cover, who needs that when you get others to do your work for you? The government itself, bureaucracy, the media, even the courts can be enticed, strong-armed, or manipulated.

If the army wanted to overthrow IK, it would be pretty easy, no need to do anything that might expose themselves. A few phone calls to their stooges within the PTI ranks, to the PMLQ and MQM, and the government would fall via parliament pretty easily. What prevents them is two things... the first is that they have no alternative to IK, in the past they picked favourites between BB and NS, remove one, install the other, today it's either NS (unthinkable), or PPP (too weak). The second problem is the backlash, if IK goes, he wont go quietly, he won't even go as meekly as NS and others, he'll do them reputational damage as he is still a popular populist leader.