Nomination of DG ISI is my authority: PM Imran Khan says in cabinet meeting today

[Norwegian]

There is no problem with the current system, hence there is no need for a solution.

Strange. You don't see a problem with the current setup? Is it constitutional? If army generals want to run Pakistan, they should obtain legal constitutional cover for that. Things will go much smoothly this way. By having a façade of democracy, civilian-military relations would always remain in an a limbo, regardless of how good boot polish civilians are selected by the military regime.

Back then, the constitution didn't matter, you walk in and suspend it.

I think it did matter. All army coups started with boot polish judges taking unconstitutional oaths under the illegal dictator. Then a rigged election took place giving the usurper democratic cover for his illegal actions. Then a rigged parliament passed laws legalizing the illegal coup, backed by the illegal judges. A few years later; rinse, repeat.

 

[ziaulislam]

Still you want to vote PMLN? After all their hypocrisies and lies have been exposed?

My leader inshallah

Leader of my sons

And leader of my grandsons

Love you.

 

[Sal12]

Current situation.
View attachment 784329

You are working overtime today. Make sure you are paid good.

 

[TigerOfMysore]

Though I agree with IK's request to make the final decision, I have one observation. Civilians need to leave the ISI alone especially in areas related to IS,ES and Tech. The Political wing of the ISI I am not too big a fan of but if people knew the dirt that exists within the political circles you'd gag. This dirt in the political circle make critical politicians very vulnerable to foreign influence. Some even actively seek this influence. ISI Pol wing needs to keep an eye on this, and that is their primary function. Now sometimes they get carried away which they should not. Instead what the Civilians need to do is improve on the one crappy Intel Org that has a huge legal mandate and that is IB. They have made IB totally useless, thanks for the civilian approach and corruption. So before they point fingers at ISI - let them try to fix IB and make is a great Internal Intel org. When they have done that and shown maturity that they can continue to allow an org like IB to operate and maintain a high standard, then only then, are they mature enough institutionally to look at some meaningful oversight. Till then please be on your own way.

 

[Invictus01]

My leader inshallah
View attachment 784370
Leader of my sons
View attachment 784371
And leader of my grandsons
View attachment 784372
Love you.

Bro I firmly believe that the sole brain cell left functioning in your thick skull has officially died
It is precisely because of people like you that we shouldn't be allowed to vote.... not for the next 20 years atleast

 

[Norwegian]

My leader inshallah
View attachment 784370
Leader of my sons
View attachment 784371
And leader of my grandsons
View attachment 784372
Love you.

Bro I firmly believe that the sole brain cell left functioning in your thick skull has officially died
It is precisely because of people like you that we shouldn't be allowed to vote.... not for the next 20 years atleast

Bro he is just being sarcastic

 

[Waterboy]

IK goes, he wont go quietly, he won't even go as meekly as NS and others, he'll do them reputational damage as he is still a popular populist leader.

He will do that eventually whether he goes on his own or thrown out. The guy is know for his uturns. Everyone in the end turns against the army.

 

[TigerOfMysore]

Bro I firmly believe that the sole brain cell left functioning in your thick skull has officially died
It is precisely because of people like you that we shouldn't be allowed to vote.... not for the next 20 years atleast

Please tell me he is not serious and is joking with these pics. If serious neutering is a better option for the world at large.

 

[Norwegian]

He will do that eventually whether he goes o his own or thrown out. The guys is know for his uturns. Everyone in the end turns against the army.

Imagine Imran Khan joining hands with Nawaz Sharif / Maryam Nawaz and Zardari / Bilawal against the establishment. It will be the end of everything. Therefore establishment should remain in its limits as Imran is completely unpredictable. He won't hesitate to start a war against establishment if pushed to the limit.

 

[Silverblaze]

I think it did matter. All army coups started with boot polish judges taking unconstitutional oaths under the illegal dictator. Then a rigged election took place giving the usurper democratic cover for his illegal actions. Then a rigged parliament passed laws legalizing the illegal coup, backed by the illegal judges. A few years later; rinse, repeat.

You are reading too much into this. Pakistani leadership like I said is very petty from the start. The language they use is Me, I and only I and Me. No respect for institutions.

Every military coup or dismissal by the civil govts is based on personal likes and dislikes. From Ghulam Muhammad and Iskander Mirza to Nawaz Sharif same story. Judges and other qawals like the bureaucracy become tools. These fights are not at all based on ideologies or principles just these personal clashes.

Long story short, this is the reason why we lost srinagar, east pakistan, other princely states and cannot even raise 50 billion dollars to run the country and might go for the 24th time to IMF. People get angry but if you read history, it is obvious.

 

[Jango]

This is a huge lacuna in our law, just like how one got exposed during the COAS extension, hopefully this one does too.

We never had to see these lacunas before because no PM actually asserted their authority on the process.

The Defence Ministry sends a summary to the PM, the PM decides, and we are done with it. But then another case is that the DG ISI is a serving army officer, so he comes under the authority of the COAS, not the PM. Seeing the loophole here?

Anyways, IK is in the right here, no matter how hard PML or PPP try to twist it.

 

[Norwegian]

We never had to see these lacunas before because no PM actually asserted their authority on the process.

In your face Patwaris!
@FOOLS_NIGHTMARE @muhammadhafeezmalik

The Defence Ministry sends a summary to the PM, the PM decides, and we are done with it. But then another case is that the DG ISI is a serving army officer, so he comes under the authority of the COAS, not the PM. Seeing the loophole here?

Yes, the main problem I see here is that DG ISI comes from the military but reports directly to PM. Does it make any sense? For the boss of all spies in the country, it is imperative that he has trust of the person he is reporting, in this case PM of Pakistan. If PM is satisfied with the current DG ISI, it is his authority to let him stay a bit longer than what is the norm in military institution he comes from. If GHQ intervenes here in PM's decision, then obviously it could complicate civil-military relations as it is happening at the moment.

 

[R Wing]

I think we are parsing hair now. First ongoing projects get far less up stream scrutiny than new projects. Ongoing projects can easily be dropped into a fog if required. Second there is one thing to give funding needs and broad program parameters, and another to be read in. It is the later which is sensitive that is kept highly compartmentalized. DGs have the right to probe into anything. But those that do and do at a greater than normal detail raise suspicion. This is the nature of all good intel outfits. And naturally the institution then reacts and we have the info avoidance part that kicks in, in an effort to bide time. Some DGs are more disruptive than others. Good ones keep at broad strokes and let the institution operate freely. ISI is too critical for Pakistan's National Security, for 3 year stints to cause trouble. My reason for writing this and above comments is to say that DGs come and go, the institution is here to stay and will. So all this hoopla about a DG should be taken with a deep breath. That is all.

Also let me tell you one other thing. Not all generals are the same. There are Generals of the Pak Army that are part of the institution. Even after retirement the institution aligns them into their mindshare and keeps them close. Others they just cut and let go.

I'm really enjoying engaging with you. I think we both know what we're talking about and the matter of contention is more to do with opinion than anything substantive.

I totally agree about your "read in" points --- I think I mentioned that from my very first comment, and echoed it in my own.

I am actually against the micromanagement of 2-star DGs by the 3-star DG and the 1-star DDGs by the 2-star DGs, etc. The top man should focus on strategy, the 2-stars on entrusting and building their teams to conceive and execute ops to fulfill that strategy and the others on tactical details that can enable such ops (which can enable the policy). The issue is that higher ups have tactical temptations!

Absolutely agree with generals and (especially) 1-stars being kept onboard even when not formally re-employed. Many (for being too outspoken) are unfortunately discarded and not properly valued but (thankfully, as you've mentioned) others are kept for 'consulting.'

 

[Kharral]

Aik Brahman NY kaha hy December tak Faiz rhna chahiay warna tum bay Faizy ho jao gy, that's the problem,

That Brahman must be a member of the Dalla Dynasty.

 

[R Wing]

This is a huge lacuna in our law, just like how one got exposed during the COAS extension, hopefully this one does too.

We never had to see these lacunas before because no PM actually asserted their authority on the process.

The Defence Ministry sends a summary to the PM, the PM decides, and we are done with it. But then another case is that the DG ISI is a serving army officer, so he comes under the authority of the COAS, not the PM. Seeing the loophole here?

Anyways, IK is in the right here, no matter how hard PML or PPP try to twist it.

In your face Patwaris!
@FOOLS_NIGHTMARE @muhammadhafeezmalik

Yes, the main problem I see here is that DG ISI comes from the military leadership but reports to PM. Does it make any sense? For the boss of all spies in the country, it is imperative that he has trust of the person he is reporting, in this case PM of Pakistan. If PM is satisfied with the current DG ISI, it is his authority to let him stay a bit longer than what is the norm in military institution he comes form. If GHQ intervenes here in PM's decision, then obviously it could complicate civil-military relations as it is happening currently.

The main issue is that we haven't had proper organizational reform to meet emerging challenges. The PM should have no say in any armed forces appointment other than the service chiefs (constitutional change required). The DG ISI, like the DG SPD and DG MO, etc., should be an internal appointment by a GHQ board.

This whole DG ISI reports to the PM nonsense should also (constitutionally) end. It makes for an incredible confusing structure. The PM has under him the IB, FIA, etc., and should develop those to his desired capacity (the necessary process of restructuring the entire IC is a post for another thread, so I won't get into that here.)