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No, Mughals didn't loot India. They made us rich

By secular rationalist, I mean people who think that Scientific Method is the only valid way of obtaining knowledge about the world

What? You clearly don't understand what secularism is.

Also

Ibn al-Haytham: The Muslim Scientist Who Birthed the Scientific Method
http://www.realclearscience.com/blo...entist_who_birthed_the_scientific_method.html

So yeah, debunked.

post Ibn-Rushd Arabian Empire/Andalucia make a NASA like organization?

Of course, why not?

that we were stumbling in the dark for over 2000 years after Aristotle,

????

Wrong

Surgery

Around the year 1,000, the celebrated doctor Al Zahrawi published a 1,500 page illustrated encyclopedia of surgery that was used in Europe as a medical reference for the next 500 years. Among his many inventions, Zahrawi discovered the use of dissolving cat gut to stitch wounds -- beforehand a second surgery had to be performed to remove sutures. He also reportedly performed the first caesarean operation and created the first pair of forceps.

Coffee

Now the Western world's drink du jour, coffee was first brewed in Yemen around the 9th century. In its earliest days, coffee helped Sufis stay up during late nights of devotion. Later brought to Cairo by a group of students, the coffee buzz soon caught on around the empire. By the 13th century it reached Turkey, but not until the 16th century did the beans start boiling in Europe, brought to Italy by a Venetian trader.


University

In 859 a young princess named Fatima al-Firhi founded the first degree-granting university in Fez, Morocco. Her sister Miriam founded an adjacent mosque and together the complex became the al-Qarawiyyin Mosque and University. Still operating almost 1,200 years later, Hassani says he hopes the center will remind people that learning is at the core of the Islamic tradition and that the story of the al-Firhi sisters will inspire young Muslim women around the world today.


Algebra

The word algebra comes from the title of a Persian mathematician's famous 9th century treatise "Kitab al-Jabr Wa l-Mugabala" which translates roughly as "The Book of Reasoning and Balancing." Built on the roots of Greek and Hindu systems, the new algebraic order was a unifying system for rational numbers, irrational numbers and geometrical magnitudes. The same mathematician, Al-Khwarizmi, was also the first to introduce the concept of raising a number to a power.


Optics

"Many of the most important advances in the study of optics come from the Muslim world," says Hassani. Around the year 1000 Ibn al-Haitham proved that humans see objects by light reflecting off of them and entering the eye, dismissing Euclid and Ptolemy's theories that light was emitted from the eye itself. This great Muslim physicist also discovered the camera obscura phenomenon, which explains how the eye sees images upright due to the connection between the optic nerve and the brain.

Music

Muslim musicians have had a profound impact on Europe, dating back to Charlemagne tried to compete with the music of Baghdad and Cordoba, according to Hassani. Among many instruments that arrived in Europe through the Middle East are the lute and the rahab, an ancestor of the violin. Modern musical scales are also said to derive from the Arabic alphabet.

Toothbrush

According to Hassani, the Prophet Mohammed popularized the use of the first toothbrush in around 600. Using a twig from the Meswak tree, he cleaned his teeth and freshened his breath. Substances similar to Meswak are used in modern toothpaste.



The crank

Many of the basics of modern automatics were first put to use in the Muslim world, including the revolutionary crank-connecting rod system. By converting rotary motion to linear motion, the crank enables the lifting of heavy objects with relative ease. This technology, discovered by Al-Jazari in the 12th century, exploded across the globe, leading to everything from the bicycle to the internal combustion engine.


Hospitals

"Hospitals as we know them today, with wards and teaching centers, come from 9th century Egypt," explained Hassani. The first such medical center was the Ahmad ibn Tulun Hospital, founded in 872 in Cairo. Tulun hospital provided free care for anyone who needed it -- a policy based on the Muslim tradition of caring for all who are sick. From Cairo, such hospitals spread around the Muslim world.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/01/29/muslim.inventions/index.html

200 years to get out of the Solar System is because religious, magical, supernatural thinking was holding us back

Yeah no, we first reached the moon on July 20, 1969. That was 48 years ago, Tech takes a long time to develop. Nothing was holding us back, it takes time to evolve.
 
@EgyptianAmerican It is debatable whether the Scientific Method started with Haytham or even with Roger Bacon...That would mean , the development of the scientific method was from Aristotle to Newton a time of 1900 years...and the time from Industrial Revolution till now is barely 250 years...It is better to see the formation of Scientific Method as the time between Galileo and Newton..between 1589 and 1687----98 years

98 years to construct the Scientific Method......and 400 years of inventions using the Scientific Method
I do believe Scientific Achievements by Human Beings will peter out in the next 50-150 years
Only hope is that General AI will take up the baton from then on

and I knew that you would bring up Arab-Persian achievements as some sort of Boosterism


Fact is life in 1000 AD Baghdad was not that different than 350 BC Athens..while Life right now in any advanced city in the world is a few orders of magnitude different than what it was 300 years back

people had on average the same IQ back in 350 BCE as they have now......it is religious superstition that held us back ...else we would have the Internet by year 1000 AD..and by now we would have been colonizing galaxies


Why were people so stupid back then inspite of having roughly the same genetic IQ? cuz of magical and supernatural thinking


Do you believe Jesus went to heaven from earth? Do you believe a certain Prophet split the moon..Do you believe a certain somebody went to space/heaven on a winged white horse?
Do you believe Prophets can break the Laws of Physics if they want to?
 
It is debatable whether the Scientific Method started with Haytham

No, it isn't.

.That would mean , the development of the scientific method was from Aristotle to Newton a time of 1900 years...and the time from Industrial Revolution till now is barely 250 years...It is better to see the formation of Scientific Method as the time between Galileo and Newton..between 1589 and 187----98 years

Yeah, No.

I knew that you would bring up Arab-Persian achievements as some sort of Boosterism

No

You are making a claim without any evidence. I am refuting that claim with evidence. That is how arguments/debates work.

.it is religious superstition that held us back ...else we would have the Internet by year 1000 AD.

Most definitely not. At this point, you are living in some sort of fantasy land.

roughly the same genetic IQ?

There is no such thing as "genetic IQ". You are not born with intelligence if we were then we would have come out of the womb knowing quantum physics.

So far despite you claiming all these things, I have yet to see a single piece of evidence supporting any of your claims.

So much for "Secular rationalist" thought whatever the f*ck that means.
 
Go to the Wikipedia page of The History of The Scientific Method

Epicurus and Aristotle are listed there before Haytham


More important Life was more or less the same between 350 BC and 900 ADa--the Golden Age of Arab Empire


Life is totally different between 1700 AD and 2017 AD

The people who brought on the most change between 1700 AD and 2017 AD were whites
 
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"He has been described as the founding father of secular thought in Western Europe and “one of the spiritual fathers of Europe."

Not by or of INDIANS and certainly not the Hindus :cheesy:

So its not the world by any stretch of imagination.


Founding father of Atheism and Skepticism in India is the dood who composed the Nasadiya Sukta...Dirghatamas? My Hero...and of course there is Charvaka and Lokayata
 
Go to the Wikipedia page of The History of The Scientific Method

Epicurus and Aristotle are listed there before Haytham


More important Life was more or less the same between 350 BC and 900 ADa--the Golden Age of Arab Empire


Life is totally different between 1700 AD and 2017 AD

The people who brought on the most change between 1700 AD and 2017 AD were whites

At this point you are simply in denial. You're wrong, suck it up and move on. That's what science is about ironically.

Not by or of INDIANS and certainly not the Hindus :cheesy:

Well historians have called him that and I'm afraid that trumps your bullshit views. Facts over emotions, a Muslim was the father of Secularism and the father of the scientific method suck it up and move on.

Also I couldn't care less about what a bunch of filthy animals in Hindustan think about such a immensely important figure in history. Not everything revolves around India so screw off and stop living in your fantasy world.
 
@sankranti sorry..we have to agree to disagree...explosive shells were nver made in India...and the 18th century Western Enlightenent is its own thing..I can make the argument that seeds of atheism was already there in Rig Veda and India had a full fledged atheist school of thought..But the hordes of stupid theists overwhelmed budding rationality in India...even if India did sporadic science and mathematics, there was never a massive qualitative leap in civilization the way we have seen in the West over last 200 years...from the horse to the edges of the Solar System and beyond......

Muslims still believe in the pegasus,Hindus still believe in the supernormal powers of Yogis...Atheists on the other hand believe in nothing without overwhelming scientific evidence

And yes it is very rational to wipe out your enemy and his lineage before he can do the same to you..more power to the people who think like that...If India had more of them, Maratha Empire would have been constructed in the 13th century itself

1. I never claimed explosive shells were invented in India. It was invented by the Swiss.

2. Western civilization needed an "enlightenment" since they were living in the dark ages. Indians were already enlightened when western civilization was non existent.

3. India was full of Republics who chose their leaders more than 2,500 years back. India had atheist's as an accepted form of Hindu philosophy when the whole world was killing each other in the name of religion.

4. India was under constant invasion and exploitation for the past 1,500 years, so how on earth can one have "leap in civilization" under such circumstances. It is those who invaded and exploited us who "leaped" ahead at our expense.

5. India invented carbon steel, surgery, medicine, architecture, literature, music, dance, drama, gold jewellery, zinc extraction, Diamond polishing (naturally forming hardest substance on earth), copper mining, Astronomy, Calendar and even know the speed of light more than 2000 years back. :cheesy:

6. I fail to see what has belief in Yoga and Yogi is against having a scientific mind. They are not mutually exclusive.

7. We were "Civilized" enough not to see anybody as the "enemy". That is why it never occurred to us to "wipe them out". That is the result of "Islamic and Western civilization and enlightenment" if you even want to call it that.

Founding father of Atheism and Skepticism in India is the dood who composed the Nasadiya Sukta...Dirghatamas? My Hero...and of course there is Charvaka and Lokayata

You are free to consider anybody your hero. There are those who consider Hitler their hero. It really means nothing.
 
India invented carbon steel, surgery, medicine, architecture, literature, music, dance, drama, gold jewellery, zinc extraction, Diamond polishing (naturally forming hardest substance on earth), copper mining, Astronomy, Calendar and even know the speed of light more than 2000 years back. :cheesy:

It's official, your fucking crazy.

Maybe the reason you don't read fantasy is because you are living in your own one.
 
At this point you are simply in denial. You're wrong, suck it up and move on. That's what science is about ironically.



Well historians have called him that and I'm afraid that trumps your bullshit views. Facts over emotions, a Muslim was the father of Secularism and the father of the scientific method suck it up and move on.

Also I couldn't care less about what a bunch of filthy animals in Hindustan think about such a immensely important figure in history. Not everything revolves around India so screw off and stop living in your fantasy world.

India is the birthplace of atheism

Historical records of atheist philosophy span several millennia. Atheistic schools are found in early Indian thought and have existed from the times of the historical Vedic religion.[9]Western atheism has its roots in pre-Socratic Greek philosophy, but did not emerge as a distinct world-view until the late Enlightenment.[10]



@sankranti we are covering a huge range of topics, can we first please agree to talk only about yoga before anything else? I disagree that India was under foreign rule for 1500 years..It was from 1192 -1707 and then from 1818-1947 ...from 1818-1947 whole of India was under foreign occuptaion..during the Islamic occupation substantial parts of India were under independent Hindu rule
 
Well historians have called him that and I'm afraid that trumps your bullshit views. Facts over emotions, a Muslim was the father of Secularism and the father of the scientific method suck it up and move on.

Also I couldn't care less about what a bunch of filthy animals in Hindustan think about such a immensely important figure in history. Not everything revolves around India so screw off and stop living in your fantasy world.

Historians has also called Gandhi the "father of India" :lol: .......... they have also called socrates "father of philosophy" :lol:

All these names mean NOTHING in real life. They are just grandiose title that gets attached to the most convenient man around.

You are even free to consider muslims as the father of gravity. No body gives a $hit.

Like your fantastic claims about inventing numbers or universities or medicine. :lol: ...... all of which can be thrashed, but I just do not care enough to demolish your fantasy.

It's official, your fucking crazy.

Maybe the reason you don't read fantasy is because you are living in your own one.

LOL... ok then.
 
@sankranti we are covering a huge range of topics, can we first please agree to talk only about yoga before anything else? I disagree that India was under foreign rule for 1500 years..It was from 1192 -1707 and then from 1818-1947 ...from 1818-1947 whole of India was under foreign occuptaion..during the Islamic occupation substantial parts of India were under independent Hindu rule

You claim you want to restrict it to "yoga" and then go on to comment on history to showcase "lack of scientific progress".

Decide what you want, you cant have it both ways.
 
You claim you want to restrict it to "yoga" and then go on to comment on history to showcase "lack of scientific progress".

Decide what you want, you cant have it both ways.


Let's put the focus on Yoga...and before that may I ask you what is your worldview?

Do you believe in existence of mind after death. afterlife, rebirth , things such as these?
 
antastic claims about inventing numbers or universities or medicine. :lol: ...... all of which can be thrashed, but I just do not care enough to demolish your fantasy.

They are not claims, they are facts, I even gave you all the evidence. You're wrong, deal with it.

They are not titles, they are facts. To call someone the father is essentially the past way of calling them the inventor or creator or the person who pioneered that field of that thing.

You're wrong, stop with the delusions. It's just embarrassing for both you and your countrymen.
 
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