No J-10B for PAF | A.C Khalid, calls for a focus on 5th generation platform instead.

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

We should not even get any planes at all (skip F16) lets just get the NASA space shuttle. Skip the 5th generation lets go directly to 6th Generation

 

[monitor]

A bird in hand is worth 2 in Bush .. is the saying !!!

36 J10B , in hand is better then "fictional 5th generation" plane that we will not even get close to till 2040

Very disappointed with the news

Change this AC Khalid guy , and lets bring someone who wants to increase our air power

Really I mean its not like we have option of 100 F16 or 30 F-35 being offered to us , and his comments about not needing J10B is not appropriate , sorry I waited 4 years for J10B , since it was announced and I do not like this AC Khalid fella due to this decision

Your enemy is getting fifth generation fighter by 2020~ so you can"t wait for 2040 for ''fictional fifth generation fighter '' which already flying though would take time getting ready .
your F-16 fleet is now stand at 76 can easily made 100 plus with cheap second hand F-16 with MLU along with some more new fighter which will give you a proven platform .
you waited 4 years for a 4.5+ fighter so wait few more year to get a whole new generation of fighter and mature your own baby with more feature to counter the current threat .

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well . we can boost J10B quickly from 36 planes to 90 planes in 2 years what are chances of us getting F16 , in such high numbers ?

Complete short sightedness from Mr Khalid , F16 , all there is in world , time to move on and diversify

JF17 Thunder + J10B + F16

And retire other planes that are older in due course

 

[小懒丶]

F-16太贵了..

F-16 is too expensive..isn't it?

 

[M Babarkhan afridi]

We shall focus on five generation fighter and helecopters

 

[Viper0011.]

Well . we can boost J10B quickly from 36 planes to 90 planes in 2 years what are chances of us getting F16 , in such high numbers ?

Complete short sightedness from Mr Khalid , F16 , all there is in world , time to move on and diversify

Actually, they have a well thought out plan. The only caveat is what if there was a war with India until the plan completes (which I don't think there will be anyways).
The JFT although lifts smaller payload than J-10, has the same (made smaller) tech like the J-10. So you are spending so much money to just get a bigger size plane to lift heavier payloads.
However, if the economy grows at 4% stead (granted this political drama ends and IK can go home), after 3 years, the economy would've grown 12%, means at the LEAST an additional 1-2 Billion USD easily available for the air force for R&D / new projects. So knowing this, I'd expect either a JV for a medium 5th Gen semi-stealth platform or infusion of money into the J-31 platform. OR, use the same project, increase airframes size similar to J-10, make it stealthier and continue on. The machinery being used for the JFT can be reconfigured to build a larger airframe.
So you'll go from JFT block I and II to may be block III being a larger plane (similar to F-16 Block 52 or 60 which is a newer plane for all intensive purposes) or even introduce a JFS (Joint Fighter Stealth) project? But there is clear rational behind it and its smarter. The PAF wants to procure PAkFa's answers in numbers starting in the next 5 years. Well thought ou

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I think the J10B is a plan that is more stronger in Air-Air combat , its more agile due to its design and can carry a larger load of Air-Air Missiles load

This can certainly mean that it can offer a good Air Superiority role from Pakistan's prespective.

We could boost the numbers from 36 Planes to 150 planes with China and have full authority to modify the planes with new components

So J10B could be a great asset to our forces.

Pakistani Forces should be in much better shape with 75 F16 C/D and 75 J10B , as Air Superiority roles and 180 JF17 Thunders for 3 Roles Air-Ground-Sea

With gradual Phase out of Mirage

We don't have a need to consider Stealth presently , our focus should be to reinforce our Main Airforce fleet with most updates planes


Reference: Wikipedia
J-10B: An upgraded variant of the J-10 with new technologies.[46] Numerous images of a new J-10 variant have surfaced, showing a prototype J-10 modified with increased radar absorbent material, next generation of integrated EW suite, increased composites which reduces the weight by one ton, new generation avionics, MAW, a diverterless supersonic inlet (DSI), an infra-red search and track (IRST) sensor, modified vertical stabiliser and wings, ventral fins, housings fitted under the wings, upgraded WS-10B engine, next generation of solid-state integrated electronics, and a modified nose with an AESA radar.[47][48] It had its first flight in December 2008. Full Production of J-10B had started with first J-10B appearing on production line on July 2013

Maximum Take off weight (42,500 lb) (More missiles and bombs)
Mach 2.2 at altitude (Perhaps undisclosed)
Hardpoints: 11 in total (3 extra air-air missiles?)



vs JF17 Thunder
Hardpoints: 7
Max. takeoff weight: 12,383 kg (27,300 lb)
Hardpoints: 7

5 J10B could be in air with 55 missiles loaded vs 35 Missile on 5 JF17 Thunders so , as you can see the J10B could be in air longer taking on enemy fighters much longer with out needing to reload


Plues AESA is already being integrated in J10B , which makes it tier 1 craft for Air to Air missions


The thunder is great for Pakistani Airforce , but we should have 2 platforms that we can increase in capacity with out restrictions

We could get TOT for J10B in future which is not possible for F16 C/D platform which is its limitation that we can't increase its capabilities beyond a limited level

 

[Zarvan]

Well . we can boost J10B quickly from 36 planes to 90 planes in 2 years what are chances of us getting F16 , in such high numbers ?

Complete short sightedness from Mr Khalid , F16 , all there is in world , time to move on and diversify

JF17 Thunder + J10B + F16

And retire other planes that are older in due course

I agree but China is now testing J-10c and we should get at least 72 J-10 C and other jets and try to increase number off F-16

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

The F16 platform is dieing out there are some enhancements on the platform which make it relevant but these technologies are not available to us so it presents a long term risk

But sure if you can negotiate a TOT for F16 C/D level , with licence production of AESA sure its a wonderful platform, F16 is a great plane for its time and some upgrades are nice but we don't get the top of line upgrades in time most of time

But that will not happen so in that case the J10B plateform is a better alternative

It offers good payload , more Air-Air engagement capabilities and we have no upper limit on number of jets we can purchase

The JF17 Thunder , meanwhile evolves into block 2 / Block 3 to offer more solid support role with Multi Role focus


Otherwise if we can get a deal like F-16IN , which was offered to India and get that , then yes lets keep adding more F16 till numbers hit 200

 

[The SC]

Chinese J-31 stealth fighter for global market, Pakistan likely customer

Two weeks after China’s new J-31 stealth fighter made its debut flight on Oct 31, it will be officially acknowledged with a mock-up of the aircraft in Airshow China, the Beijing-endorsed air show that opens in Zhuhai, China on Tuesday. With China’s official media reporting that the J-31 will be sold to overseas customers, Indian analysts say that the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) might be one of the earliest customers of the J-31.
The English-language newspaper Global Times, which is owned by the Communist Party of China (CPC) cites Bai Wei, former editor of the Aviation World Monthly as saying, “Currently the only fifth generation fighter available for sale is the F-35 by the US. The ‘J-31’ will offer an alternative for non-traditional allies of the US.”
The leakage of photos of the J-31 debut flight, which analysts regard as deliberate, had triggered speculation that the People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) had built that aircraft for the international market, creating a rival for Lockheed Martin’s long delayed F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. Aviation experts assess that the J-31 would also need 7-10 years to enter operational service
Indian analysts, including Pushpindar Singh of the Society for Aerospace Studies, point out that the PAF’s preference for Chinese fighter aircraft make it likely that it would acquire the J-31 as soon as the fighter is ready for operational service.
“Already, the backbone of the PAF is made up of Chinese fighters like the JF-17 Thunder, the J-10 and the F-7. It is close to certain that Pakistan would also opt for at least two squadrons of the J-31, given that the US is unlikely to allow it into the F-35 partnership,” says Pushpindar Singh.
Indian analysts believe the PAF will emerge as a 23-squadron air force by 2020, with its backbone consisting of 12-13 squadrons of the JF-17 light fighter. While the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex and the Chengdu Aircraft Industries Corporation (CAC) have ostensibly developed the JF-17 jointly, analysts believe that most of the development was done by CAC. The PAF already operates four squadrons of the JF-17, which is part-built in Pakistan and China.
In 2020, the PAF would also have four squadrons of Lockheed Martin F-16s, two squadrons of the J-10 from CAC, and three squadrons of older Chinese F-7TGs.
The close relationship between the PLAAF and the PAF is evident from the presence at the Zhuhai Air Show of three PAF JF-17 fighters, which will be flying displays during the show.
Meanwhile, the Indian Air Force (IAF) is currently down to 34 squadrons, with which it must defend both the Pakistan and the China borders. By 2017, the fourteen IAF squadrons that fly MiG-21 and MiG-27 fighters would also have been disbanded, and replaced by just 4 new squadrons of Sukhoi-30MKI fighters.
“With the procurement of the Dassault Rafale fighter also running late, the IAF will be facing what can only be described as a crisis in 2017,” says Pushpindar Singh.

Airshow China will also feature, for the first time ever, China’s new WZ-10 attack helicopter, which will be capable of flying anti-tank and anti-aircraft missions, fielding a payload of rockets, missiles and a rapid-fire cannon. Like in every China-built fighter aircraft, the five-tonne helicopter will be powered by a foreign engine.
The air show at Zhuhai will also feature a new Chinese long-range ground-to-air missile called the FD-2000.

Broadsword: Chinese J-31 stealth fighter for global market, Pakistan likely customer

 

[Viper0011.]

lol... that is we to us.. We never know GCC feels threatened by IN... We don't have territorial disputes ...

For starters, you should see posts here by your countrymen as to how much they hate Islam, Saudis, etc. Even in discussions now a days, you guys are becoming very assertive. So its natural that the readers from the GCC are aware of the stance and they are getting ready to potentially be at odds at some point. Just like I've noticed it, I am sure others have too. It's not rocket science, you just have to read posts and understand the bottom end mentality....

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I think realistically , we are far away from Stealth platform and its not needed for us immediately we have other national security concerns , 15 F16 flying low to ground can penetrate into India with out being detected if needed and do what is needed to be done and other stuff can be handled by Missiles which we have plenty

Stealth is perhaps not as crucial as to having a platform that has ample missiles on it

 

[Viper0011.]

The F16 platform is dieing out there are some enhancements on the platform which make it relevant but these technologies are not available to us so it presents a long term risk
The JF17 Thunder , meanwhile evolves into block 2 / Block 3 to offer more solid support role with Multi Role focus

I think (and future will tell) the direction for the PAF is -16's in numbers with primary focus being BVR-able and block 40+. Plus, to replace aging Mirages, either -16's or used Mirages from ME countries. JFT of course will finish up to 200-250 and will become the mainstay jet.
Next, hopefully the political turmoil will finish soon, they'll get a few billion for investment and will go for J-31 with some technology build internally. I'd hope that with a few billions, may be a new project as JFT Block III (a new airframe and stealthy one) could be started with similar arrangement like the JFT (part China-Part Pakistan build). That would make a lot of sense. It may not be a twin engined J-31, it may be a single engine cousin of it but still bigger than JFT, offering more payload (like what was going to be offered by J-10 C but add stealth to it and more advance avionics)

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

The stealth platform is not available untill China gets at least 30-100 planes in their inventory and that is realiistically will not happen immediately


J-31 won't be in Pakistani colors at least till 2022-2025

J10B , is good option to have unrestricted capable Air-Air , specific Air-Air role

F16 IN , renamed to F16 PK, model would be good consideration as well provided we get TOT offer. Licence to keep at least 200 planes in inventories and replace older ones with new ones at will to maximum 200 jets


Stealth is far away , we need platform that solidify Air -Air engagements

We need 180-200 planes that need replacement with newer platforms, 36 J10B would have certainly filled some gaps in this area

 

[Lil Mathew]

The stealth platform is not available untill China gets at least 30-100 planes in their inventory and that is realiistically will not happen immediately


J-31 won't be in Pakistani colors at least till 2022-2025

J10B , is good option to have unrestricted capable Air-Air , specific Air-Air role

F16 IN , renamed to F16 PK, model would be good consideration as well provided we get TOT offer. Licence to keep at least 200 planes in inventories and replace older ones with new ones at will to maximum 200 jets


Stealth is far away , we need platform that solidify Air -Air engagements

We need 180-200 planes that need replacement with newer platforms, 36 J10B would have certainly filled some gaps in this area

Air commodore said concentrate on fifth gen means concentrate your resources for fifth gen.. He definitely pointing out the lack of funds available for a new platform now( not only for procurement but also for supporting and maintaining that)..
PAF budget is only $1.5 billion (against IAF's $ 9 billion). Maintaining such a big force with $1.5 billion itself is a miracle as majority of the fleet are ageing (other than jft).. Man power wise also PAF is a big force.. Their wages,training,transportation, stores, wepons etc. itself costs very high per annum..
So with $1.5 billion you can't afford a new platform..
So as fifth gen aircraft is inevitable in next decade, concentrate on that., that time increase def budget 2-3 times (it needs good economic growth for next 5-10 years)..