No J-10B for PAF | A.C Khalid, calls for a focus on 5th generation platform instead.

[UKBengali]

pakistanis stil hoping china will come to the rescue

modi first overseas trip is china to double trade.

so dont rely on china they did nothing to help in 1999 kargil

China is far more powerful now than it was in 1999.

As China grows to become a superpower it will impose it's will on those who seek to challenge it's dominance on the Asian continent.

 

[aliyusuf]

Just wanted to share ...

H.Khan, a senior member of the PakDef.org forum, has posted the following ...

Some days old news: PAF Air Vice Marshall Sohail Aman, Deputy Chief of Air Staff (Operations) is in the US. Yesterday he visited Davis-Monthan Air Force Base, Arizona. He'll be traveling to LM plant at DFW, also PAF is planning to acquire 17 more Jordanian F-16s and 14 from another source.

PAF and China now in negotiation to co-develop/produce FC-20 at PAC. FC-20 is third version of original J-10A. Chengdu has already told PLAAF that in its present facilities it can't manage the orders that PLAAF has placed. Few factors have stalled FC-20 are financial, WS-10 has not developed into a performance based engine, if the present engine is used then the both China and Pakistan have to conduct negotiations with Russia.

There are three different versions of J-10. J-10A (present production), J-10B (Testing phase) and FC-20.

Since there are production capacity issues with J-10, PLAN has received only enough aircrafts for one regiment and it is pushing to get more J-10 at faster rate which is not possible. PLAN has started to look at FC-1/JF-17 to fill the gap for its needs. If this goes through the order for FC-1/JF-17 would be close to 300 aircrafts. ...

 

[Basel]

@aliyusuf If true then FC-20 may be equal to J-10C or be better variant with AESA radar and customized as per Pakistani requirement, which means boost in capabilities.

 

[Drebin]

@aliyusuf, How old is H'Khan's post? And can any senior member elaborate the significance of PLAN ordering PAC 300 FC-1 and, what would it mean for our Airforce? I mean from financial and business point of view?

 

[aliyusuf]

@aliyusuf, How old is H'Khan's post? And can any senior member elaborate the significance of PLAN ordering PAC 300 FC-1 and, what would it mean for our Airforce? I mean from financial and business point of view?

It was posted yesterday.

For any one who is not aware of H.Khan, he has been a member of the PaKDef forum since 2001 and has over 13000 posts.
He usually has a good percentage of being correct.

 

[LonE_WolF]

@aliyusuf, How old is H'Khan's post? And can any senior member elaborate the significance of PLAN ordering PAC 300 FC-1 and, what would it mean for our Airforce? I mean from financial and business point of view?

Sometime ago president Mamnoon said that China will buy JF17 from Pakistan........ so maybe there is some possibility that what is stated above might be true.....

 

[araz]

@aliyusuf, How old is H'Khan's post? And can any senior member elaborate the significance of PLAN ordering PAC 300 FC-1 and, what would it mean for our Airforce? I mean from financial and business point of view?

As you know PAC has 58% share in the JFT .That means profits will be shared in that order. I think it would be fantastic not only for PAC but also for JFT as it would boost its prospects of export.

 

[Fahad Khan 2]

Sometime ago president Mamnoon said that China will buy JF17 from Pakistan........ so maybe there is some possibility that what is stated above might be true.....

President Mamnoon Hussain has described his visit to China as successful. Pakistani President said that Chinese side has agreed to induct FC-1/JF-17 Thunder fighter jets into its Air Force. This will help in bringing the per unit price down and increase the chances of garbing export orders. He also added that China will continue to cooperate on the JF-17 project.

China has also agreed to extend its cooperation in fighter against terrorism and will supply Pakistan army with helicopters. China and Pakistan will also soon finalize contract to jointly develop and produce submarines for Pakistan Navy.

 

[Drebin]

As you know PAC has 58% sbare I the JFT .That means profits will be shared in that order. I think it would be fantastic not only for PAC but also for JFT as it would boost its prospects of export.

I realize that nothing concrete has been penned down and, what we are discussing is purely "might happen scenerio." But, if you could bear with me a little longer then, could you put a finger on the Block that PLAN will opt for? Or will they upgrade the order as new Blocks are introduced as per PAF's regime/plan? And what do you assume it means for Block-IV and V? After all, 300 aircraft is a hulking order.

Also, as per my calculations, Black-I and Black-II will net $4.5 Billion and $7.5 Billion respectively. Assuming, that's what PLAN orders, what will be net sum that goes to PAC as per 58% formula? Or do you think that, the entire amount will go to PAC as China won't be categorized as an export customer. Thus, no profit sharing formula implies. Or am I wrong?

 

[Chak Bamu]

Let us wait for confirmation. H Khan's quoted post points in many directions all at once.

One must bear in mind that PAF uses these forums to plant stories that could be right or be misleading. Often senior posters know / can guess the matter. So, I can not say which of his assertions are right. Seems to me that PAF interest in more used F-16s is right. FC-20 lead is questionable. I will believe 300 Fc-1 story when I actually see it being inducted in PLAAF. We could see it soon if indeed it is correct.

 

[araz]

I realize that nothing concrete has been penned down and, what we are discussing is purely "might happen scenerio." But, if you could bear with me a little longer then, could you put a finger on the Block that PLAN will opt for? Or will they upgrade the order as new Blocks are introduced as per PAF's regime/plan? And what do you assume it means for Block-IV and V? After all, 300 aircraft is a hulking order.

Also, as per my calculations, Black-I and Black-II will net $4.5 Billion and $7.5 Billion respectively. Assuming, that's what PLAN orders, what will be net sum that goes to PAC as per 58% formula? Or do you think that, the entire amount will go to PAC as China won't be categorized as an export customer. Thus, no profit sharing formula implies. Or am I wrong?

Although the block will depend on PLAAN demands and requirements if a contract gets signed in 2014, deliveries will start from 18- 24 months later. We are looking into block 3 hopefully by that time.So this by sheer logic should be what will be supplied. As to the nitty gritty of who gets what it is difficult to state fact without actually looking at the terms of the contract. Either way profit sharing should be 58- 42. I would be lying if I said I know much more than that. As to numbers, given our productions rates it will take really long to prduce 300 JFTs while fulfilling our orders as well.

Araz

 

[Drebin]

@araz, your assessment makes sense sir and so does @Chak Bamu's. It's simply better to wait and watch instead of analyzing it prior to its occurrence.

And lastly, what's your opinion/thinking on the matter that its the PLAN's intention for induction FC-1 and, not PLAAF? Any particular reasons?

 

[araz]

@araz, your assessment makes sense sir and so does @Chak Bamu's. It's simply better to wait and watch instead of analyzing it prior to its occurrence.

And lastly, what's your opinion/thinking on the matter that its the PLAN's intention for induction FC-1 and, not PLAAF? Any particular reasons?

Shore based fighter with IFR and ASMs. What more can one want.
Araz

 

[Drebin]

Shore based fighter with IFR and ASMs. What more can one want.
Araz

Doesn't J11B or J10 provide the same advantage?

 

[araz]

Doesn't J11B or J10 provide the same advantage?

Both cannot be produced quickly enough. CAC has a backlog of orders for j10s and cant produce enough to fulfill PLAN demands(according to Hkhan of pakdef.info).
Araz