News from within CAC (J-10B and J-20, also Pakistan related)

[Zabaniyah]

Hi! I am not expert in Jet fighter shits but I have read a bit about F-16s, JF-17s and J10s.

To me this thread looks like a punch to Pakistanis from Chinese ...... and the posts look like Pakistanis are trying to punch back Chinese (Referred to internet fans, not to Military ****) = bit like flame war between Pakistanis and Chinese fans because of jealousy. (Note to Indian: You guys can warm yourself as long Chinese and Pakistanis throw negative posts on each other and the flame continues ) lols but sorry I don't mean offences to any party.

To Chinese and Pakistanis who start bashing each other for J10As and J10Bs in this forum, (to me it looks like bashing), what the hell you guys know about inside and outside of Aircraft, developments, joint projects blah blah. Internet, media etc only provide us those informations which are mostly bullshits ..... things like specifications about military equipments are mostly incorrect and now way in hell you guys know most of the equipment's capabilities, specifications etc. If reliable and true informations are revealed on internet, media, shits etc then why agencies take risk of spying when they are available of internet etc.

I couldn't bother to write more of my bullshits.....

???????????????

 

[SQ8]

So one Incident of a May 2 changes the definition of an "ally" in one stroke .........If I am not wrong there was also one thread running on possible further acquisition of F-16 block 52 by PAF.......did some one forget to tell them about May 2 Incident.......why buy F-16 why not buy J-10A simply......
.....If only you could really tell the color of the grass on the otherside of the wall.......that It was really J-10A which was looked into from the beginning with some modifications as the Chinese here are claiming or J-10B was the choice which cannot be available before 2014......or its not J-10A/B......but F-16 which is being looked into.......all messed up....."ally-foe-foe-ally"........ There might also be J-XX procurement on track...... the biggest problem I see here with Pakistani Members is that they really count the chickens and start partying even before they hatch.

I could show you a mirror on a certain place called BR.
Instead out there they consider their chicken way more than a chicken.. and there aint no chicken like that in the whole world.

Im not sure WHOM you are quoting.. but here on this thread..
It has been the J-10B.. as stated by those with the blue streak.. they generally are on target.. which is WHY they have a blue color.
The J-10A was considered back in 2005.. then the Chinese came up with the J10B.. which is why the program was delayed..
Now after may 2.. we realize things aren't peachy with the red white and blue's.. so we ask for a fast track program.

The only difference being that those in blue.. or huitong... or anybody else cant bring their source with the credentials and have them record the statement on video.
Although Im sure some skeptics will still bring in excuses to doubt even that.

 

[flyinghawkwings]

it was pakistan sir and j-10b will be secure in pakistan too i really don't see difference between pak-china in this level .there may be some other issue but J-10A i don't think so .

you're delusional. the source is from someone who works in CAC. As if getting a J10A is some kind of punishment. You guys are ridiculous!

 

[S10]

Here is a further update, much more important to Pakistan than J-10. This time is about Pakistan and next generation fighter aircraft.

When asked whether there will be a "stealthy JF-17", huzhigeng basically said no and a new plane will take its place:

成都有个外销的准四代。。。编号是2X。。。XIAO BA和第三世界有需求。。。当然611还指望能从空军那里分些单子。。和35差不多一样大。。。方案已经让XIAO BA看了。。。

"CAC has an export version of pre-4th gen (5th in American/Russian standards), designated as J-2X. Pakistan and third world countries may have the requirement, as well as PLAAF. It's roughly the same size as F-35. The proposal has been presented to Pakistan already."

Link: ´ó¼Ò˵˵£¬Éò·ÉËÄ´úÓüÓÀ³ÌؽøÆøµÀ£¬ÊÇÎÞÄεÄÍ×Ð*»¹ÊÇÐÔ¸ñµÄ±*¾ß£¿£¿£¿ - µÚ8Ò³ - ¿Õ¾ü°æ - ³¬¼¶´ó±¾Óª¾üÊÂÂÛ̳

Now the reason he said "pre-4th" gen is because to qualify for 4th gen, China use the 4S standard. Supercruise, Stealth, Supermanoevurability and Sensor Fusion are the 4S criteria. Because of that criteria, F-35 is not considered a true 4th (5th) gen in China as it cannot supercruise, and is not thought to be as very manoevurable either (compared to other 4th gen). So this version Pakistan is getting presented will not meet all of the "4S" standard.

Another bit of info regarding J-10B

Someone said to huzhigeng J-10B uses Russian PESA in a heated exchange (implying CAC sucks):

我们空军现在和以用只会用AESA。还PESA呢。毛子的垃圾货。我们从来没有过。我们中国的全是AESA。。10B还PESA。。。可能吗？看来你什么也不懂呀。到时候来打你的脸。。看着吧.

Our air force only operated AESA in the past and present. PESA is Russian garbage we will not give consideration to. China is only interested in AESA, so it is impossible for J-10B to be equipped for PESA. Looks like you know nothing. Just wait, I will be back to mock you when it's announced.

http://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=1132765&page=3#pid29289263

 

[ziaulislam]

i think its a j-10 a but with avionics upgrades...
it possible that second batch of aircrafts could be j-10bs

frankly there isnt much differnce between them..it could be something in between j-10 and j-10b..
whatever PAf asked for was done..we should keep that fact in mind..along that we may get them on soft loan.

 

[ziaulislam]

Here is a further update, much more important to Pakistan than J-10. This time is about Pakistan and next generation fighter aircraft.

When asked whether there will be a "stealthy JF-17", huzhigeng basically said no and a new plane will take its place:

"CAC has an export version of pre-4th gen (5th in American/Russian standards), designated as J-2X. Pakistan and third world countries may have the requirement, as well as PLAAF. It's roughly the same size as F-35. The proposal has been presented to Pakistan already."

Link: ´ó¼Ò˵˵£¬Éò·ÉËÄ´úÓüÓÀ³ÌؽøÆøµÀ£¬ÊÇÎÞÄεÄÍ×Ð*»¹ÊÇÐÔ¸ñµÄ±*¾ß£¿£¿£¿ - µÚ8Ò³ - ¿Õ¾ü°æ - ³¬¼¶´ó±¾Óª¾üÊÂÂÛ̳

Now the reason he said "pre-4th" gen is because to qualify for 4th gen, China use the 4S standard. Supercruise, Stealth, Supermanoevurability and Sensor Fusion are the 4S criteria. Because of that criteria, F-35 is not considered a true 4th (5th) gen in China as it cannot supercruise, and is not thought to be as very manoevurable either (compared to other 4th gen). So this version Pakistan is getting presented will not meet all of the "4S" standard.

if possible pakistan should take active part in it, to improve its capabilities..especially if PLAAF doesnt need it.

 

[mymeaningislion]

Hi! I am not expert in Jet fighter shits but I have read a bit about F-16s, JF-17s and J10s.

To me this thread looks like a punch to Pakistanis from Chinese ...... and the posts look like Pakistanis are trying to punch back Chinese (Referred to internet fans, not to Military ****) = bit like flame war between Pakistanis and Chinese fans because of jealousy. (Note to Indian: You guys can warm yourself as long Chinese and Pakistanis throw negative posts on each other and the flame continues ) lols but sorry I don't mean offences to any party.

To Chinese and Pakistanis who start bashing each other for J10As and J10Bs in this forum, (to me it looks like bashing), what the hell you guys know about inside and outside of Aircraft, developments, joint projects blah blah. Internet, media etc only provide us those informations which are mostly bullshits ..... things like specifications about military equipments are mostly incorrect and now way in hell you guys know most of the equipment's capabilities, specifications etc. If reliable and true informations are revealed on internet, media, shits etc then why agencies take risk of spying when they are available of internet etc.

I couldn't bother to write more of my bullshits.....

you know your place on the forum so don't make it worse

 

[krash]

Not too surprising.

Even if they are allies, the producer country normally does not export the best variant of a model to it's ally. This similarly applies to the USA and Russia and goes on even now.

If the Pakistanis do want the J-10B, they'd have to wait for a while. It's not like China is going to export J-10Bs before they themselves field it fully operational.

Unless the producer country was actually developing this new version as per the requests and demands of the consumer country which had already accepted the demand of the producer country to reduce the order of a certain other aircraft so as to be allowed to tinker with the produce in question. Further more Sir.TaimiKhan and Sir. Santro have given pretty plausible explanations.

 

[Dazzler]

After a long day i have something to share, the initial plans were/ are for B but a revised requirement emerged (as Taimi said) so we need a front line MRF urgently although with our specified changes in it. No word on radar variant but it is not the KLJ-10, rather something better, asked by PAF. IRST is there, old EW is replaced with more advanced one, cockpit similar to JFT so is HUD. Will update more in coming days. One thing to remember is FC-20 is not out, rather pushed down abit.

 

[SQ8]

After a long day i have something to share, the initial plans were/ are for B but a revised requirement emerged (as Taimi said) so we need a front line MRF urgently although with our specified changes in it. No word on radar variant but it is not the KLJ-10, rather something better, asked by PAF. IRST is there, old EW is replaced with more advanced one, cockpit similar to JFT so is HUD. Will update more in coming days. One thing to remember is FC-20 is not out, rather pushed down abit.

Just as I said.

 

[Dazzler]

This is why i read your posts with huge interest

 

[graphican]

Nabil,

If everything is that of JFT, then are engines and more fuel capacity the only two edges which J-10A would have over JFT ? Don't we have F-16s for that specification already?

 

[pshamim]

J-10A and J-10B are not two different aircrafts. J-10B is an upgraded version of the J-10A. It has different avionics, different engine intake, and different radar. Say like F-16A and F-16C.
Huzhigeng may be correct but PAF will not be getting exactly the same version of J-10 that PLAAF is flying now.

I think that this is more a speculation than an actual fact, unless Pakistan is going for the older versions (Per Huzhigeng) for financial reasons.

I will watch before determine what the facts are.

 

[Akasa]

J-10A and J-10B are not two different aircrafts. J-10B is an upgraded version of the J-10A. It has different avionics, different engine intake, and different radar. Say like F-16A and F-16C.
Huzhigeng may be correct but PAF will not be getting exactly the same version of J-10 that PLAAF is flying now.

I think that this is more a speculation than an actual fact, unless Pakistan is going for the older versions (Per Huzhigeng) for financial reasons.

I will watch before determine what the facts are.

J-10B is half a generation ahead of the J-10A. It has extensive airframe modifications, AESA radar, DSI, more sensors, greater application of RAM, etc.

 

[notorious_eagle]

After a long day i have something to share, the initial plans were/ are for B but a revised requirement emerged (as Taimi said) so we need a front line MRF urgently although with our specified changes in it. No word on radar variant but it is not the KLJ-10, rather something better, asked by PAF. IRST is there, old EW is replaced with more advanced one, cockpit similar to JFT so is HUD. Will update more in coming days. One thing to remember is FC-20 is not out, rather pushed down abit.

Sir from what i have heard from some very reliable inside sources; FC20 has not been pushed down, it is still slated to join PAF during the 2014-2015 time frame which was originally envisioned. Due to an immediate need for a high tech fighter to keep up with the developing threats, J10A is being acquired to fullfill that gap. PAF envisioned in the past that they could fill this void with the release of additional used F16's from the US, but seeing how things stand with the US at current, PAF is putting its contingency plan into action. Also i agree, i heard the same thing that our J10A will not be the same as the Chinese one which are currently in use. There will be improved avionics and radar that will be on board this aircraft.

On a different topic, i still believe that it is not the Air but the threat from Sea that is more dangerous to Pakistan. Flankers and the new MIG29K can simply outfly PAF jets in terms of endurance, PAF desperately needs aircrafts that are high in endurance and can cater to the threat from the sea. Air Warfare in sea is going to be much more different than Air warfare above land, we need fighter aircrafts near the coast that can fly CAP's for prolonged periods and if push comes to shove, can fight off enemy aircrafts from stand off ranges. With the way the IN Aviation is gaining strength and additional SU30MKI's joining IAF, our shorelines are becoming increasingly dangerous from the air. I still believe that PN is well equipped to fight IN's surface and underwater fleet with its dozens of ASM's and other force multipliers in our waters, but its the threat from the Air that is most definitely PN is not designed to fight.