New JF-17 Squadron to be raised

[CriticalThought]

wrong all reports...albeit no offical source suggests that ws 13 is 100kn power engine and so is the rd 93 ma

please update yourself
AESA radars are getting better and better, so far reports suggest that rd 93 baseline engine can support AESA,
remember rd 93 has about 10% more thrust than gef-404 anyway

rd 93 and rd 93ma is much mature engine, that is the reason to stick with it


i am comparing ge f404 to rd 93.... comparing a recent sale of 100 engines to india @ around 9 million
assuming overhaul time and maintenance is twice as costly...
rd 93 will still be cheaper

The F404 that India is buying is a top notch engine that benefits from the latest technology available in 2017. From Wikipedia, some of the maintenance features are:

It requires less than two shop visits per 1,000 flight hours and averages 6,500 hours between in-flight events. It also demonstrates high responsiveness to control inputs, spooling from idle to full afterburner in 4 seconds. The engine contains an in-flight engine condition monitoring system (IECMS) that monitors for critical malfunctions and keeps track of parts lifetimes.

That idle to full afterburner in 4 seconds means an absolute superiority when recovering from tight turns, evasive manoeuvers, etc.

Also, GE is testing its latest Carbon Matrix Composite technology on the F404, and it makes a lot of sense that India will be benefiting from it having paid such a high price.

Finally, in recent years, GE has been on the forefront of using IoT for engine maintenance. Their engines have a virtual counterpart that goes through exactly the same wear and tear as the actual engine, allowing them to predict failures and perform maintenance as and when needed. So yes, the higher price is quite justified for a modern engine.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

wrong all reports...albeit no offical source suggests that ws 13 is 100kn power engine and so is the rd 93 ma

please update yourself
AESA radars are getting better and better, so far reports suggest that rd 93 baseline engine can support AESA,
remember rd 93 has about 10% more thrust than gef-404 anyway

rd 93 and rd 93ma is much mature engine, that is the reason to stick with it


i am comparing ge f404 to rd 93.... comparing a recent sale of 100 engines to india @ around 9 million
assuming overhaul time and maintenance is twice as costly...
rd 93 will still be cheaper

Opinions not supported by any source, and contradicted by all official sources have very little value.
An AESA without enough power will not have better range than a legacy radar.

 

[HRK]

i am comparing ge f404 to rd 93.... comparing a recent sale of 100 engines to india @ around 9 million
assuming overhaul time and maintenance is twice as costly...
rd 93 will still be cheaper

RD-93 was purchased by Pakistan for $4.1 million

 

[araz]

the incentive would be there if PAF thinks rd 93 is lacking, which i think is not,


hypothetically IF PAF believed that rd -93 is lacking in power for block 3 requirement, they would have found that back in 2014-2015 during technical study phase and would have already approached Chinese or Russian to get their engine ready by 2018-2020, interesting that is the time around which we heard about rd 93ma for the first time

i believe a 100+ order is an incentive even in case of lacking competition, especially when this is not a purely new engine

chinese have made astonishing improvement of late, i will not be surprised if even ws 13 is ready....
though i think PAF will go fro rd 93ma if needed and i hope it should be ready if needed by 2018-20...
if indeginization is the future push, it will not be bad idea to go for more local production on ws 13 and use similar advance version or same engine for project azm

RD93 is fine for block 2 but if you want an AESA, increased hard points and a less smoky engine you will have to ask for the MA. The russians have already tweeked the RD series for us, and the evidence is in the lesser smoke in late second generation planes, but we do need a better engine, more thrust, possibly more power with a longer life. I suspect PAF will push for the 93MA or failing that try to wrestle some advantage by trying the WS13. However I dont see the 13s in their current iteration making it into the JFT. Perhaps FC1 once it has stabilized could be an option. But it is not ready for mass production as yet. Heck even WS10 is having problems with reliability.
A

 

[razgriz19]

but its cheaper as well, its simply a design philosophy..i am no expert, not even novice...

soviet mass production vs western more reliable longer life products

You're right. Soviet relied on mass productions as to always keep their production line warm so they're wouldn't have to deal with re-starting production issue if a conflict arises. However, Pakistan doesn't have the same expenditure as the soviets did and that's what my concern is

wrong all reports...albeit no offical source suggests that ws 13 is 100kn power engine and so is the rd 93 ma

please update yourself
AESA radars are getting better and better, so far reports suggest that rd 93 baseline engine can support AESA,
remember rd 93 has about 10% more thrust than gef-404 anyway

rd 93 and rd 93ma is much mature engine, that is the reason to stick with it


i am comparing ge f404 to rd 93.... comparing a recent sale of 100 engines to india @ around 9 million
assuming overhaul time and maintenance is twice as costly...
rd 93 will still be cheaper

And what do you think the aircraft would be using when its original engine is down for overhaul?
That's right you would need more spare engines to re-equip the aircraft. PAF would need to buy more engines to support the fleet. Whichever way you look at it, downtime is costly in terms of money as well as national security as you would have more AOG.

 

[CriticalThought]

You're right. Soviet relied on mass productions as to always keep their production line warm so they're wouldn't have to deal with re-starting production issue if a conflict arises. However, Pakistan doesn't have the same expenditure as the soviets did and that's what my concern is



And what do you think the aircraft would be using when its original engine is down for overhaul?
That's right you would need more spare engines to re-equip the aircraft. PAF would need to buy more engines to support the fleet. Whichever way you look at it, downtime is costly in terms of money as well as national security as you would have more AOG.

It doesn't make sense to compare a 1970s approach to current state of affairs. With RD-93 we are stuck in the 1970s.

 

[khanasifm]

When can we expect the re eqpt ceremony ?? Feb /March like Last few years

 

[alimobin memon]

It doesn't make sense to compare a 1970s approach to current state of affairs. With RD-93 we are stuck in the 1970s.

its RD93 is not a base model from 70's and if it was outdated or so Pakistan Air force would have opt for other options.

 

[SherDil]

Just a nice shot of a JF-17 over Masroor.

View attachment 444405

It's PAF base Faisal, Not Masroor

 

[CriticalThought]

its RD93 is not a base model from 70's and if it was outdated or so Pakistan Air force would have opt for other options.

There were no other options available.

Some improvements have been made over the 70s base model, but they still don't bring it into the 21st century. The MA version has more modern specs. Let's see if Block 3 will have it or not.

 

[Hammad ur Rehman]

Currently PAF has 19 combat squadrons, ideally it should have 24 so this new 28th sq is good news.

 

[Windjammer]

My guess is this is run up to the raising of new JF-17 unit which reportedly will be stationed at Samungli.

 

[AMG_12]

View attachment 447416

My guess is this is run up to the raising of new JF-17 unit which reportedly will be stationed at Samungli.

Is the new squadron being relocated to PAF Peshawar?

 

[Windjammer]

Is the new squadron being relocated to PAF Peshawar?

No I read new squadron will be based in Samungli.

 

[AMG_12]

No I read new squadron will be based in Samungli.

Why's there a mention of Peshawar in the image you posted in #84?