New Chinese stealth fighter heightens dilemma for Indian Navy

[帅的一匹]

Old news, don't derail the thread please.

 

[sancho]

　India could play similiar tricks like china. Want earn money,transfer your tech at first.

That's what we already do with our licence production and JV policies, only that we have better techs on offer and get more ToT. The problem is, that we don't use this advantage to the max and some of my fellow country men think we should do it like your country does with indigenous developments, but these are the same people that cry out when they see you copying foreign design, because they don't understand that one can't have it all. Developing indigenous stuff, with the same level of experience, know how and innovation as Russia, Europe and the US do!

They had decades to earn these things, China started 10 years back and spended big efforts to catch up with them and India starts now to do the same now. Both of our countries will catch up and possibly even surpass them someday, but it will take time and a lot of money too.

 

[trident2010]

As far as Indian armed force is concerned, the main issue regarding China is the Quantity not Quality. Qualitatively Chinese produce defence systems are at least generation behind its European/US/Russian counterparts and if we see the top fighters available in PLAF and IAF, IAF is qualitatively far superior and therefore until china reaches at par with the west/Russia our only concern is its numerical superiority. To counter this numerical superiority, India have to get the state of the art defence systems and make training and strategy cutting edge. Also, we have to develop a ultra modern defence eco system to utilise each component efficiently just as US do.

 

[oct605032048]

How many LCA does India have?!!

Chinese should feel shame of india's achievement for e.g


HAL completed design studies in 1975, It came from the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) programme, which began in the 1980s to replace India's aging MiG-21 fighters. Later, the LCA was officially named "Tejas"


1975 -LCA
1976 -LCA
1977 -LCA
1978 -LCA
1979 -LCA
1980 -LCA
1981 -LCA
1982 -LCA
1983 -LCA
1984 -LCA
1985 -LCA
1986 -LCA
1987 -LCA
1988 -LCA
1989 -LCA
1990 -LCA
1991 -LCA
1992 -LCA
1993 -LCA
1994 -LCA
1995 -LCA
1996 -LCA
1997 -LCA
1998 -LCA
1999 -LCA
2000 -LCA
2001 -LCA
2002 -LCA
2003 -LCA
2004 -LCA
2005 -LCA
2006 -LCA
2007 -LCA
2008 -LCA
2009 -LCA
2010 -LCA
2011 -LCA
2012 -LCA

This is hilarious.

 

[sancho]

Qualitatively Chinese produce defence systems are at least generation behind

I would say a half generation, if you compare J10 with Eurocanards for example, but Chinese are fast in catching up, while the financial problems in Russia and the west will limit them from improving themself, so China will be on par with them sooner or later, I guess at the end of the decade at.

 

[帅的一匹]

As far as Indian armed force is concerned, the main issue regarding China is the Quantity not Quality. Qualitatively Chinese produce defence systems are at least generation behind its European/US/Russian counterparts and if we see the top fighters available in PLAF and IAF, IAF is qualitatively far superior and therefore until china reaches at par with the west/Russia our only concern is its numerical superiority. To counter this numerical superiority, India have to get the state of the art defence systems and make training and strategy cutting edge. Also, we have to develop a ultra modern defence eco system to utilise each component efficiently just as US do.

Some old school idea about china 20years ago.....

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

Russian and European 4.5 gen fighters already showing these capabilities and both also have shown their capabilities with stealth design as well.
China on the otherside has still to prove that is even close to these countries in most of these fields let alone the US. Taking US and Russian stealth designs and mixing them is one point, developing an own stealth design another. The Eurocanards are supermaneuverable, offers supercruise capabilities and NG avionics, Chinese 4th gen fighters don't.
China has a good pace, but will still need time to reach the same level and that is something that many people forget.

Beside Russian Pak/Fa to be claimed as 5 gen, Euro-canards fighters such Rafale and typhoon are only two 'S'--> super maneuvrability and super-electronic but sorry to say this, its still not considered as super cruise nor real stealth...of course that doesn't mean they can't come up with 5 gen fighter, the question is with current financial situation...can't they afford?

As for China, I mentioned before that we don't care how many 'S' we could achieve, we just moved forward...as long as the J-20 and J-31 design specifications meet the PLAAF requirements...and much better than what we have in inventory such J-10 and J-11.

 

[sancho]

Beside Russian Pak/Fa to be claimed as 5 gen, Euro-canards fighters such Rafale and typhoon are only two 'S'--> super maneuvrability and super-electronic but sorry to say this, its still not considered as super cruise nor real stealth...of course that doesn't mean they can't come up with 5 gen fighter, the question is with current financial situation...can't they afford?

That's not correct, all three Eurocanards (Gripen NG, Rafale and EF) have proved supercruise, just like Su 35 and the Europeans have developed several stealth designs, but not in a joint development, only in smaller country developments and for UCAVs mainly. If they would join and would have higher budgets, they would easily be able to develop a stealth fighter.

 

[trident2010]

Some old school idea about china 20years ago.....

If you can prove it otherwise I am all ears. It is good to produce all the equipments indigenously however how it compares with the state of the art is other thing to consider. Everyone knows that China is playing catching up game in terms of hi-tech defence systems. One simply cannot replace trillions of dollars of R&D and decades of research effort with copying the final product. Cheap made in China products are good for western companies to make profit as they do all R&D at their countries and China just produce them. So until China stop copying and producing cheap stuff, and come up with innovative new systems, it will always play the catch up game.

 

[kkacer]

If you can prove it otherwise I am all ears. It is good to produce all the equipments indigenously however how it compares with the state of the art is other thing to consider. Everyone knows that China is playing catching up game in terms of hi-tech defence systems. One simply cannot replace trillions of dollars of R&D and decades of research effort with copying the final product. Cheap made in China products are good for western companies to make profit as they do all R&D at their countries and China just produce them. So until China stop copying and producing cheap stuff, and come up with innovative new systems, it will always play the catch up game.

don't live in your old world

Chinese innovation takes country to top of world patent lists

11, Nov 2012

According to a recently-updated report by Thomson Reuters into innovation in Asia, by the end of 2011 China had overtaken every other country in the world in the number of invention patents it files each year. This landmark event occurred a year earlier than Thomson Reuters had previously predicted in its 2008 report into Chinese patent filings.

‘Patents are very tangible measures of innovation,’ said Bob Stembridge, customer relations manager of Thomson Reuters and author of the company’s report into patenting in China. ‘The country is transforming from "made in China" to "designed in China".

Chinese innovation takes country to top of patent lists - PATENTS - Research Information

 

[sexy gun]

Indian Navy is in a dilemma... wether to label them as junk or to laugh at these people !!!

 

[djsjs]

As far as Indian armed force is concerned, the main issue regarding China is the Quantity not Quality. Qualitatively Chinese produce defence systems are at least generation behind its European/US/Russian counterparts and if we see the top fighters available in PLAF and IAF, IAF is qualitatively far superior and therefore until china reaches at par with the west/Russia our only concern is its numerical superiority. To counter this numerical superiority, India have to get the state of the art defence systems and make training and strategy cutting edge. Also, we have to develop a ultra modern defence eco system to utilise each component efficiently just as US do.

good viewpoint!Our government should hire you as a lobbyist to tell the US and some other countries that China is in the age of cold steel！If you are successful in persuading them to reduce military spending to a very low level，we would turn you into Bill Gates.

 

[BlueDot_in_Space]

- inducting and operating Mig 29K in different roles will give IN experience, because these fighters are ready developed and available now, not in 6 years or so
- developing an N-LCA tech demonstrator (the first 6 N-LCA prototypes based on the LCA MK1), gives Indian industry experience in navalising a fighter for carrier operations, not developing a full fledged combat varient, with bigger numbers, that's just a waste of time and money

inducting Mig29k will give IN experience in operating a naval fighter not building a naval fighter. They will always be dependent on russia for that. Converting a fighter for carrier operation is itself a steep learning curve. And once you are capable of that, you can easily build a capable carrier fighter. AMCA can be navalised based on the experience of Naval LCA. LCA is more than a capable fighter in light category. AMCA will be more than a capable fighter in medium category. India has not been building fighters for the last 100 years, It has just started 2 decades back, and that too without much support from the users.

jointly develop FGFA will give Indian industry the experience to develop a stealth fighter, not developing LCA

Yeah sure, Russians are idiots that will pass their knowledge in designing stealth frames to you. The so called joint development is nothing but india providing money. HAL will atmost do what they have been doing with su30mki, i.e. install ownmission computers and avionics.

 

[Zabaniyah]

He is right.Rafale locked even f-22

Chinese surely have quantity edge over india but not quality.
You ppl can surely copy the air frames but not other than this as u proved earlier

Fanboys have no limit

 

[BlueDot_in_Space]

Beside Russian Pak/Fa to be claimed as 5 gen, Euro-canards fighters such Rafale and typhoon are only two 'S'--> super maneuvrability and super-electronic but sorry to say this, its still not considered as super cruise nor real stealth...of course that doesn't mean they can't come up with 5 gen fighter, the question is with current financial situation...can't they afford?

As for China, I mentioned before that we don't care how many 'S' we could achieve, we just moved forward...as long as the J-20 and J-31 design specifications meet the PLAAF requirements...and much better than what we have in inventory such J-10 and J-11.

To be frank their is nothing like true stealth, its west propaganda. There is Low observable stealth or LO stealth and Moderately observable stealth or MO stealth. Flying wings fall in LO stealth and YF22/23 fall in MO stealth.