New Chinese stealth fighter heightens dilemma for Indian Navy

[rcrmj]

china is all noise but empty vessel !!

LCA, Arjun, INSAS, moon landing, IT powerhouse``````who is the empty vessel```i'd say the primitive society India

 

[arp2041]

Abing, 200+?? that no. is really huge, yes China want to just reverse engineer the machine but if they desperately want the ac i don't think there is any problem since they have got the necessary thing to buy them off the shelf - MONEY, since if i am not wrong then currently sukhoi 30mki turns out to be the best plane of the region & they have no answer for it, this has been proved by the RuAF themselves going for MKI instead of MKK. Also can any leverage of India over Russia work to make this deal a non-starter?? since India being the largest buyer of Russian weaponry & is the assured importer for same in years to come.

 

[rcrmj]

Well it's pretty simple if it is the case that China is looking to buy SU-35s then it just confirms what I have been saying all along. The Chinese aerospace industery is just not up to the same level as the West and Russia. Now the J-20/31 might look all nice and stealthy but what really gives a 5th gen fighter an edge is avionics,sensor fusion,EW suite,engines and weapons package. China is dearly lacking in all these areas. Russia and the West are far,FAR ahead in all these areas so the idea of a Su-35 purchase for China would be to buy one of the most capable fighters on the market right now to strip down and reverse engineer. The Su-35 would come with some good sensors and a very good engine. Now others like say the French, are ahead of Russia in the avionics/sensor arena eg the SPECTRA suite is the most capable such system on the planet by all accounts, but the French just aren't willing to sell such equipment to the Chinese nor are most of the world due to China's complete disregard of IP laws. As such China is turning to Russia. The fact is China can't play catch up in complete isolation in the span of jusrt over a decade so it does need outside help but this help is not forthcoming. Not to mention that whilst Russia has some great tech in some areas it too is lacking notably avionics and sensors-this is why India has gone with Western (Israeli/French) tech on their MKIs not to mention Indian tech and will do so even on the 5th gen fighters from Russia. But Russia is the only viable player out their even considering sales to China. As such China has dug itself into quite a whole and this is where India actually stands in a better position- yes India is currently lagging in indigenous production of defence equipment but the thing is that it is still freinds with everyone and all the major defence companies in the world are entering into JVs left right and centre not to mention TOT is coming in for almost every major defence purchases these days. India is going to be able to take expertise from those on the cutting edge whilst China continues to struggle in isolation. It is for this exact reason that China is going to have an incredibly tough time getting a grip on ACC operations and my guess is it is going to lose A LOT of lives and machines unfortunately. What they are attempting to do has never been done before ie get a handle on the basics of ACC operations with supersonic high-performance jets. All other ACC powers started out with props and sub-sonic a/c.

Having said that I still think the chances of Russia selling a full spec SU-35 to China is remote. Russia has been burned by this before (SU-33/30). Why would Russia want to sell China a product that they will strip down, reverse engineer, give it a new designation and then market themselves as an "indigenous" product cutting into Russia's export sales? If the Russians are not even willing to sell China Mig-29Ks for their ACCs because of fear of IP infringement why would they sell Su-35s? It makes no sense and it seems to be a lot of hot air IMHO. Russia stands to lose more than it gains.


All the best to China though-it is going to need it.


@arp2041 - no problem bro, if you need help just ask!

A BS article by some random russian delegations and you believe China is buying Su-35? Chinese officials have denied it many times that its not gonna happen, the reason J-11B, J-15 and J-16 are with Chinese radar, avionics and engines are because Russians are outdated not even with their latest stuff

just for the record this kind of BS news showed every single time when Zhuhai show staged, 2006,2008, 2010, 2012 and it will be more.

dont you remember the cases of AC arrestors, Su-33 and aditional russian engines this and that? they all proved to be no more than a means of russian advertising techniques to get indians itchy on its pocket

 

[Abingdonboy]

Abing, 200+?? that no. is really huge, yes China want to just reverse engineer the machine but if they desperately want the ac i don't think there is any problem since they have got the necessary thing to buy them off the shelf - MONEY, since if i am not wrong then currently sukhoi 30mki turns out to be the best plane of the region & they have no answer for it, this has been proved by the RuAF themselves going for MKI instead of MKK. Also can any leverage of India over Russia work to make this deal a non-starter?? since India being the largest buyer of Russian weaponry & is the assured importer for same in years to come.

Mate it is simple logic- deal will only happen if the Chinese buy a substantial number of SU-35s to offset any potential loss in sales revenue for Russia if/when China reverse engineers it and tries to sell it off as their own "indigenous" product. The Russians must have calculated the potential market for SU-35s around the world and whilst it is an excellent plane the international market doesn't look great for them so say they have calculated a number- x, as the total they can hope to sell to other nations. They would want China to buy x+whatever to satisfy their own concerns. Other wise why should Russia hurt itself? And the idea of the Russians accepting a "guarantee" from China, that simply isn't good enough. The Chinese are very shady when it comes to this stuff-remember their "new" ACC was meant to become a floating casino! The Russians will only respond to concrete orders.


Yes China has the money but is Russia foolish enough to sacrifice long term revenue for short term gains? I think not.


And wrt India leveraging its position- that is complety up to the Indian and Russian bureaucrats to sort out. International diplomacy is not my area of expertise but objectively one would think that India was in a position to red flag this sale. But we can't read the minds of the Russians. Once again it is a question of whether they are willing to sacrifice their long term success for short term gains.

A BS article by some random russian delegations and you believe China is buying Su-35? Chinese officials have denied it many times that its not gonna happen, the reason J-11B, J-15 and J-16 are with Chinese radar, avionics and engines are because Russians are outdated not even with their latest stuff

just for the record this kind of BS news showed every single time when Zhuhai show staged, 2006,2008, 2010, 2012 and it will be more.

dont you remember the cases of AC arrestors, Su-33 and aditional russian engines this and that? they all proved to be no more than a means of russian advertising techniques to get indians itchy on its pocket

Mate, I have to agree- this article is too far fetched.

However my hypothesis still stands.