New Armored Ambulance For Chinese PLA

[jhungary]

Amored Ambulance may be luxury assets in an army like VPA
Dust off mission maybe too luxury in an army like PLA

So there's potential demand for Amored Ambulance vehicle.

My opinion, they are suitable to UN mission,

lol, no.......

Armoured Ambulance means an Armoured Vehicle specialised design to transport patient, they would have to be reformatted the interior to accept Litter (Stretchered) patient. And there would have to be designed to withstand roll-over, and also there MAY be lifesaving equipment on board.

Problem with these, is that, being an Armoured Vehicle, there are already no place to operate on a patient, yet it would have done absolutely nothing on any T-1 or Cat A casualty. Which mean you can stick an IV and a Medic in it, and that's about it, and if the patient will bleed to death, then they will, as you cannot do operation, or even simple medical procedure inside a cramped cabin.

Then there are T2, T3 or Cat B and C casualty. As they are already stabled, that mean they do not need any on-route care, then the reason will come back to if they do not need medical care on route, then why bother making a Ambulance on it and it? Simply using a standard BMP-1 or M113 for it, then you can transport your troop in it too, why waste money and time and resource to make a specified vehicle for it?

The question is, this is not a luxury, it is about operational parameter. I know not many country can afford a dedicated CSAR and TRAP unit, but still, that does not mean they would waste money to convert a standard Armoured Vehicle like BMP-1 into Armoured Ambulance? Why not simply use a BMP-1 instead? As you are not gonna save T-1 anyway with it.

That is my argument

 

[BoQ77]

So my idea like this

normal APC with first aid kit. That's enough.
This below is more important

and this is response to that

Are you kidding?? If he needs first aid that's the job of the platoons paramedic or whoever is trained to give first aid within the platoon,he won't need to get out far to have that very basic medical attention.A military field ambulance carries much more life saving equipment than a first aid kit.Those equipment can be considered heavy to be carried by a front line infantry paramedic.Like oxygen units,defibrillators etc.
And every medevac operation depends on the situation.You have to respond how the situation demand from you.There is highly trained peoples to design and determine the way of a medevac. Deployment of medevac platforms very much depends on those situation and circumstances.
It's the matter of a persons life,its not something you just say "meh just send in an APC with first aid kit".

 

[kungfugymnast]

First of all, the movie Black Hawk Down IS NOT ABOUT CASEVAC, and the US Special Force have a ground component. Col McKnight Column of Humvee and truck were running around the crash site all the time during the so called "Rescue".

The whole Ranger Regiment were lift out of Bakara market, not just the wounded. That is why we need the UN armoured (And to be fair, most of them are from the US 10th Mountain Div anyway with 16 Condor APC and 4 M-48 tank from Malaysia and Pakistan out of the 100 vehicle convoy). It is impossible to airlift out all the soldier by air. Even the ground convoy is not enough to plug ALL the ranger out and some of the ranger have to run the "Mogadishu Mile"

Mogadishu Mile - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And what you don't see from the movie is that the seriously wounded soldier were airlifted by AH-6 Little Bird and Black Hawk instead of Ground Armoured Vehicle. The one that was evacuated by Ground vehicle were the one that got hit on the leg or arms which were deemed "Stabled Casualty" Other T-1 or Cat A were picked up by AH-6 early on in the battle.

If you remember about the movie, you see in the movie when Sgt Eversmman Platoon first arrive on the first crash scene, the AH-6 crew were pulling one of the serious injured delta out from their helicopter, which the man later died on operation table.

Not to mention you have avoid all my question and instead ring out a war fought 22 years ago and measure it to the modern Casevac and Medevac requirement.

Again, if you have a sucking chest wound and can't stop bleeding, maybe you will want to stay in your armoured ambulance, everyone else would have wanted a Helicopter Dustoff.



Again some BS from you.

You do know SA-6 was advanced during 1990s right, when I talk about advance, it's not about now, some 20 years later, the war is not fought now, it was fought in 1990s.

One of the requirement of the war for anyone side is to neutralise enemy Air Defence, just because the US flew successful SEAD mission does not mean Iraq and Serbia Air Defence is crap. You do know they did bring down some of our aircraft, right? the Serbia down 2 F-16 and 1 F-117 and the Iraqi down a few F-16 and F-18.

Once again, you just show how little you know about Military.

Why did you bring in that movie that didn't follow exactly the incident? Your American propaganda film too ashamed to show the actual story, it's just an entertainment movie, not exactly following the true storyline. Veered off course. Uhm.. the real incident, you have seriously wounded had to endure the pain riding on vehicles because the choppers mostly couldn't land or avoid the high risk landing sites. If your delta force had armored ambulance IFV in the humvee convoy, things would be better. That's the main purpose of armored ambulance, following the armored column to war.

You should know that russian avionics from 70's was inferior compared to Americans. Their avionics only starting to keep pace in 80's and only comparable to American in 90's. Which is why you see the mig23, mig27, r23, r40, sa6, sa8, sa9 were short lived and replaced by sa11, sa13, sa15, 2s6, sa10 in 80's. SA-6 gainful was best in 70's but when there's improved RWR in f15c, f16c, f/a-18c in 80's, the SA-6 became less effective pushing the Russians to develop SA-11 gadfly along with 2s6 Tunguska and SA15 gauntlet for short range protection.

Iraq was heavily in debt during late 80's after exhausted from war with Iran and oil price depreciation. It could not afford to purchase mig29B, only had the export version with poor bvr mig29A. Su27 was not for export until 1991 with su27sk. Desert storm, iraq was attacked by several countries to be exact. Everyone went there for black gold bounty.

Put aside desert storm, the 2003 iraqi freedom invasion, America imposed arms embargo after 1991 desert storm onwards preventing Iraq from trading fuel for weapons and development with Russia and China. Why is that, care to explain?

 

[gambit]

Not to mention you have avoid all my question and instead ring out a war fought 22 years ago and measure it to the modern Casevac and Medevac requirement.

Once again, you just show how little you know about Military.

Pretty much that is how these guys 'debate', using the word very generously. When it is exposed that they know next to nothing about the technicalities of the subject, they scrambled to redirect to political or other tangential issues.

 

[kungfugymnast]

Pretty much that is how these guys 'debate', using the word very generously. When it is exposed that they know next to nothing about the technicalities of the subject, they scrambled to redirect to political or other tangential issues.

What scramble? Nobody's diverting topic, it's still on track on how armored ambulance is deployed. I've stated from beginning that it would follow armored column into warzone.

And then you Americans out of no where kept saying PLA would call the armored ambulance from all the way from base to battlezone to fetch wounded and back. You got serious interpretation problem there.

As for Iraq, both of you are reluctant to explain why impose arms embargo preventing it from rebuilding its country and military. Just admit that you Americans don't dare to fight fair and square.

 

[jhungary]

Why did you bring in that movie that didn't follow exactly the incident? Your American propaganda film too ashamed to show the actual story, it's just an entertainment movie, not exactly following the true storyline. Veered off course. Uhm.. the real incident, you have seriously wounded had to endure the pain riding on vehicles because the choppers mostly couldn't land or avoid the high risk landing sites. If your delta force had armored ambulance IFV in the humvee convoy, things would be better. That's the main purpose of armored ambulance, following the armored column to war.

You are a strange fella, on one hand, you keep referring the movie as an "American Propaganda Film" and on the other hand, you keep reference to this supposedly Discredited film by you, as you called it "American Propaganda"

And no, IN THE REAL BATTLE, those Delta whom was seriously wounded was evacuated off by both AH-6 Little Bird and Blackhawk, Daniel Bosch, a Delta Operator were extracted by AH-6 in the first crash site before the ranger secure it and at lease 2 other landing were done by other Night Stalker before the Durant Blackhawk was downed. And no, as I said, the UN Ground Column were made to evacuate the WHOLE regiment, something Air-exfil could not do even for an unmolested LZ. As the matter of fact, EVEN THE UN CONVOY FAILED TO EXTRACT ALL GROUND COMPONENT, because some Ranger and Delta were running the Mogadishu Mile that day.

You should know that russian avionics from 70's was inferior compared to Americans. Their avionics only starting to keep pace in 80's and only comparable to American in 90's. Which is why you see the mig23, mig27, r23, r40, sa6, sa8, sa9 were short lived and replaced by sa11, sa13, sa15, 2s6, sa10 in 80's. SA-6 gainful was best in 70's but when there's improved RWR in f15c, f16c, f/a-18c in 80's, the SA-6 became less effective pushing the Russians to develop SA-11 gadfly along with 2s6 Tunguska and SA15 gauntlet for short range protection.

LOL........

Again, you have totally ignore my point and rant on something you know nothing of. It does not matter if Russian Avionic is inferior than American Avionic (Which is actually debatable), the question is, their premier missile were used against the American and they are of proper defence. So what it was "inferior" even if it was true, is the seeker and warhead on a SA-6 a dud?

The reason the Russian system was behind the American one is not because the Russia system is crap, it's the American system were more advanced, that does not mean the Russian System is totally dud.

AK-47 were also said to be inferior in design than M-16 or M-4 Series rifle, does it mean AK-47 is any less lethal?

You are funny to assume that.

Iraq was heavily in debt during late 80's after exhausted from war with Iran and oil price depreciation. It could not afford to purchase mig29B, only had the export version with poor bvr mig29A. Su27 was not for export until 1991 with su27sk. Desert storm, iraq was attacked by several countries to be exact. Everyone went there for black gold bounty.

Put aside desert storm, the 2003 iraqi freedom invasion, America imposed arms embargo after 1991 desert storm onwards preventing Iraq from trading fuel for weapons and development with Russia and China. Why is that, care to explain?

How did Arms embargo by US affect Iraq buying arms from Russia and China? It's the same as Iran being sanctioned by the US and UN, does it bother the Russia from selling their tech to Iranian?

Arms Embargoes is one of the way to win a war, and war never fought fair, just because ore advanced, that does not mean we don't want our war to finish quick. So by your standard, since we are years ahead than Iraq, so it wouldn't hurt to let them develop their own military so we have a better challenge? What kind of Moron will think like that?

Nobody, not America, not Britain, not China will fight fair and square given if they had a chance. Or why do you think the reason behind all these "Chinese invention" that comes out of the internet directly? They want to fight fair and square so they copy other people stuff? Or you do believe some movie when somebody holding a gun at you and they will drop it simply because you said "Drop the gun and have a fair fight"? LOL, I am pretty sure I would have just shoot you and laugh at you.

Pretty much that is how these guys 'debate', using the word very generously. When it is exposed that they know next to nothing about the technicalities of the subject, they scrambled to redirect to political or other tangential issues.

lol.....I enjoy the man interesting interpretation of "Armoured Ambulance" and how it should use for Casevac. So their soldier can bled to death in a relatively safe and comfortable ride from the front line.

Maybe if he had two 556 bullet hole in his chest, he would prefer an ground ambulance which can do no more than 55Km/h, I am pretty sure 99/100 soldier would choose to evacuated by a helicopter in this case.

And you know he is shit when you see even the PDF Chinese brigade don't bother to thank him either. Meaning he is subpar even in PDF Brigade ranking.

What scramble? Nobody's diverting topic, it's still on track on how armored ambulance is deployed. I've stated from beginning that it would follow armored column into warzone.

And then you Americans out of no where kept saying PLA would call the armored ambulance from all the way from base to battlezone to fetch wounded and back. You got serious interpretation problem there.

As for Iraq, both of you are reluctant to explain why impose arms embargo preventing it from rebuilding its country and military. Just admit that you Americans don't dare to fight fair and square.

lol, you think the Iraqi fought fair in Iraq?

Man, YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT IRAQ. I laugh at your ignorance.

 

[SecularNationalist]

It,s just a copy of soviet armored vehicles.

 

[gambit]

You are a strange fella,...

He is just an immature kid.

The reason the Russian system was behind the American one is not because the Russia system is crap, it's the American system were more advanced, that does not mean the Russian System is totally dud.

I think you just blew his mind.

I dare say you are the first one -- besides me -- on this forum to know the difference between crap and functional. In engineering, this is what often confuses first yr students. They seems to believe that between two products that intentionally have the same purpose but one is technologically superior to the other, that other must be 'crap'. Real engineering know that is not true. The Ford Model T and the Rolls Royce Ghost are both functional vehicles, but just because the Ghost is more luxurious and technologically more advanced, that does not take away the FUNCTIONALITY of the Model T.

I have examined Soviet avionics of the Cold War era and while it is technologically inferior to Western counterparts, the Soviets gear got the job done. If it works, it is not 'crap'. I may use the word 'crap' to cast a negative comparison light of Soviet/Russian products against Western products, but that does not mean I believe the Soviet/Russian gear do not function as intended by their designers.

Mr. Fu is simply out of his league.

How did Arms embargo by US affect Iraq buying arms from Russia and China? It's the same as Iran being sanctioned by the US and UN, does it bother the Russia from selling their tech to Iranian?

He is not the first nor will be the last not to have research what is an embargo then make a fool out of himself in trying to excuse Iraq, Iran, or any country under targeted sanctions/embargoes. He simply does not know that essentially, ANYONE can ignore US sanction/embargo plans.

Man, YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT IRAQ. I laugh at your ignorance.

As we laugh, his fellow Chinese cringes.

 

[jhungary]

He is just an immature kid.

Well, I think he is beyond immature.

Anyone who believe a marine can earn $11,000 a month fighting in Iraq belong to the looney bin.

I think you just blew his mind.

I dare say you are the first one -- besides me -- on this forum to know the difference between crap and functional. In engineering, this is what often confuses first yr students. They seems to believe that between two products that intentionally have the same purpose but one is technologically superior to the other, that other must be 'crap'. Real engineering know that is not true. The Ford Model T and the Rolls Royce Ghost are both functional vehicles, but just because the Ghost is more luxurious and technologically more advanced, that does not take away the FUNCTIONALITY of the Model T.

I have examined Soviet avionics of the Cold War era and while it is technologically inferior to Western counterparts, the Soviets gear got the job done. If it works, it is not 'crap'. I may use the word 'crap' to cast a negative comparison light of Soviet/Russian products against Western products, but that does not mean I believe the Soviet/Russian gear do not function as intended by their designers.

Mr. Fu is simply out of his league.

Not my first time looking at people like this....

Just something is inferior, that does not mean they cannot work what they are supposed to do. You will still die if you got hit by an inferior missile or bullet...That's the whole point...

He is not the first nor will be the last not to have research what is an embargo then make a fool out of himself in trying to excuse Iraq, Iran, or any country under targeted sanctions/embargoes. He simply does not know that essentially, ANYONE can ignore US sanction/embargo plans.

Meh, even US company ignore Sanction in Iran, Coca Cola earn about 600 millions USD a year during sanction....And they were under UN sanction, not US sanction....

His mind is blown, you cannot measure it against a normal human brain. You can see how he contradict himself the whole post. On one point he argue the version in the movie Black Hawk Down support his argument, then immediately class it as "Propaganda" and then he said we start blasting the ambulance about how it travel to and from base to front line. While I was talking about the speed.

As we laugh, his fellow Chinese cringes.

The sad thing is, I believe even @Beast called him delusional

 

[kungfugymnast]

You are a strange fella, on one hand, you keep referring the movie as an "American Propaganda Film" and on the other hand, you keep reference to this supposedly Discredited film by you, as you called it "American Propaganda"

And no, IN THE REAL BATTLE, those Delta whom was seriously wounded was evacuated off by both AH-6 Little Bird and Blackhawk, Daniel Bosch, a Delta Operator were extracted by AH-6 in the first crash site before the ranger secure it and at lease 2 other landing were done by other Night Stalker before the Durant Blackhawk was downed. And no, as I said, the UN Ground Column were made to evacuate the WHOLE regiment, something Air-exfil could not do even for an unmolested LZ. As the matter of fact, EVEN THE UN CONVOY FAILED TO EXTRACT ALL GROUND COMPONENT, because some Ranger and Delta were running the Mogadishu Mile that day.



LOL........

Again, you have totally ignore my point and rant on something you know nothing of. It does not matter if Russian Avionic is inferior than American Avionic (Which is actually debatable), the question is, their premier missile were used against the American and they are of proper defence. So what it was "inferior" even if it was true, is the seeker and warhead on a SA-6 a dud?

The reason the Russian system was behind the American one is not because the Russia system is crap, it's the American system were more advanced, that does not mean the Russian System is totally dud.

AK-47 were also said to be inferior in design than M-16 or M-4 Series rifle, does it mean AK-47 is any less lethal?

You are funny to assume that.



How did Arms embargo by US affect Iraq buying arms from Russia and China? It's the same as Iran being sanctioned by the US and UN, does it bother the Russia from selling their tech to Iranian?

Arms Embargoes is one of the way to win a war, and war never fought fair, just because ore advanced, that does not mean we don't want our war to finish quick. So by your standard, since we are years ahead than Iraq, so it wouldn't hurt to let them develop their own military so we have a better challenge? What kind of Moron will think like that?

Nobody, not America, not Britain, not China will fight fair and square given if they had a chance. Or why do you think the reason behind all these "Chinese invention" that comes out of the internet directly? They want to fight fair and square so they copy other people stuff? Or you do believe some movie when somebody holding a gun at you and they will drop it simply because you said "Drop the gun and have a fair fight"? LOL, I am pretty sure I would have just shoot you and laugh at you.



lol.....I enjoy the man interesting interpretation of "Armoured Ambulance" and how it should use for Casevac. So their soldier can bled to death in a relatively safe and comfortable ride from the front line.

Maybe if he had two 556 bullet hole in his chest, he would prefer an ground ambulance which can do no more than 55Km/h, I am pretty sure 99/100 soldier would choose to evacuated by a helicopter in this case.

And you know he is shit when you see even the PDF Chinese brigade don't bother to thank him either. Meaning he is subpar even in PDF Brigade ranking.



lol, you think the Iraqi fought fair in Iraq?

Man, YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT IRAQ. I laugh at your ignorance.

Ever since black hawk down movie, people would refer somalia war as black hawk down. We're referring facts, not movie. Stop referring the wounded soldier evacuated with ah6. There are several who were seriously wounded but have to rode home in humvee, st ives trucks and later multinational forces vehicles. PLA evaluated several battles and find it useful to have armored ambulance following tanks and vehicles to warzone. Doesn't mean pla doesn't use choppers to evacuate wounded. Get your facts right.

As for war never fair, this is main reason why China and Russia must strengthen their naval fleet with carriers that could operate large numbers of fighters. Should a country is being attacked by Americans in unfair arms embargo, china and russia could do business selling weapons and supplies giving that country a chance to fight back.

 

[acetophenol]

Chinese Armored Ambulance (Image:China Military Online)

The Chinese People’s Liberation Army (PLA) General Armaments Department (GAD) has approved a new generation amphibious armored ambulance.

The indigenously made ambulance can act as a small emergency room and can effectively enhance the defensive and traffic capabilities of the medical crew in combat rescue operations, China Military reported Thursday.

The new amphibious armored ambulance can quickly transport the casualties under complicated weather conditions in complex terrains at sea and on land. In amphibious landing operations, the ambulance can accompany the combat troops to carry out medical support tasks.

Inside the amphibious armored ambulance, monitors, ventilators, infusion pumps and various types of drugs and equipment necessary for the treatment of the wounded are available.

The damping structure and cushion in the built-in bunk stretcher bed and seats for the wounded have been transformed to avoid secondary damage caused by bumps; at the same time, noise reduction and human design features in interior, climate control and lighting in the entire ambulance cabin can create a suitable environment to rescue the wounded.

Researchers said that this amphibious armored ambulance can transport up to eight wounded in addition to the medical crew. The loading and unloading of all the wounded can be completed within two minutes as a result of the specially-designed bunk stretcher bed and ambulance doors.

Zhou Lin, director of the Institute of Field Operation Surgery of the PLA Third Military Medical University, is responsible for the research and development of the new ambulance.

New Armored Ambulance For Chinese PLA

Is it based on BMP platform? Looks similar to India' BMP based ambulance

 

[jhungary]

Ever since black hawk down movie, people would refer somalia war as black hawk down. We're referring facts, not movie. Stop referring the wounded soldier evacuated with ah6. There are several who were seriously wounded but have to rode home in humvee, st ives trucks and later multinational forces vehicles.

I was not referring to the movie from the Get Go, you are. If you remember what I said correctly, I said the movie account is not accurate and the battle itself happened 22 years ago, hardly represent the modern Casevac and Medevac

I simply point out the fact that MOST T-1 casualty were brought out by Dust off

I know for a fact US Armed force will not evacuate Seriously Wounded soldier in Humvee, that's SOP and that why in the movie, Pvt Jamie Smith died.

PLA evaluated several battles and find it useful to have armored ambulance following tanks and vehicles to warzone. Doesn't mean pla doesn't use choppers to evacuate wounded. Get your facts right.

Dude, I NEVER SAID ANYTHING regarding PLA evac chopper, I simply say under the current medical procedure, the role of Armoured Ambulance is redundant, did I say anything about PLA chopper? Please do not try to put word on my mouth.

As for war never fair, this is main reason why China and Russia must strengthen their naval fleet with carriers that could operate large numbers of fighters. Should a country is being attacked by Americans in unfair arms embargo, china and russia could do business selling weapons and supplies giving that country a chance to fight back.

lol, I don't care what China and Russia do, but if you think Russia will cooperate with China after the Chinese steal the Su-27 design and turn them into J-11, then I think you are stupider than Putin.

Chinese Navy can never have the same power than US Navy, Chinese Navy do not have influence overseas, while the US Navy is an International Navy. If there were war between US and China tomorrow, the only port open to China outside Chinese Soil is some Africa port and Pakistan, but the USN would have a world reach. Not to mention for Chinese Navy to go across the Pacific, they will need to pass thru Pearl Harbour, which IS AMERICAN SOIL. You can of course build 100 Aircraft carrier that carry 10,000 Aircraft, but where are you going to put the carrier when you only have 2 deep sea ports?

You would be dreaming to think PLAN would somehow edged the USN in Number and Quality on weapon platform.

And there are reason why those country rather submitted to the US then getting Chinese Weapon, nobody stop Saddam Hussein to get Chinese weapon, no one is stopping the Taliban from getting Chinese Weapon, care to think why they rather lose to US in an unfair fight then use Chinese weapon??

As usual, you argue your point like a 12 years old girl.

 

[kungfugymnast]

He is just an immature kid.


I think you just blew his mind.

I dare say you are the first one -- besides me -- on this forum to know the difference between crap and functional. In engineering, this is what often confuses first yr students. They seems to believe that between two products that intentionally have the same purpose but one is technologically superior to the other, that other must be 'crap'. Real engineering know that is not true. The Ford Model T and the Rolls Royce Ghost are both functional vehicles, but just because the Ghost is more luxurious and technologically more advanced, that does not take away the FUNCTIONALITY of the Model T.

I have examined Soviet avionics of the Cold War era and while it is technologically inferior to Western counterparts, the Soviets gear got the job done. If it works, it is not 'crap'. I may use the word 'crap' to cast a negative comparison light of Soviet/Russian products against Western products, but that does not mean I believe the Soviet/Russian gear do not function as intended by their designers.

Mr. Fu is simply out of his league.


He is not the first nor will be the last not to have research what is an embargo then make a fool out of himself in trying to excuse Iraq, Iran, or any country under targeted sanctions/embargoes. He simply does not know that essentially, ANYONE can ignore US sanction/embargo plans.


As we laugh, his fellow Chinese cringes.

Do you see russian radar guided AA-7 Apex carried by mig23 air to air missiles work against US f15 during the war in 70's after vietnam? They don't seems to work yet mig23s gotten into dogfight having to acquire lock from the rear using IR guided missiles. Your F15a would begin launching AIM-7 and with some success splashing migs from 20 miles away. Soviet weapons would rely on quantity, slipping to your rear or lure your fighters into SAMs and AAAs to fight.

Russian avionics only get on par with Americans in the 90's enough to challenge your fighters and choppers but not the mbts.

Say if Russia ignored your warning and sent their fleet to escort precious fresh weapons and supplies cargo to Iraq in late 90's selling them the su27sm, mig33, su30mk with full armaments packages, a50 awacs, 2s6, sa17, s300, sa15 , mi28 havoc with armaments package and complete ground forces t90, bmp3, btr90, 2s19, bm30, etc. You think America would dare to fight?

I was not referring to the movie from the Get Go, you are. If you remember what I said correctly, I said the movie account is not accurate and the battle itself happened 22 years ago, hardly represent the modern Casevac and Medevac

I simply point out the fact that MOST T-1 casualty were brought out by Dust off

I know for a fact US Armed force will not evacuate Seriously Wounded soldier in Humvee, that's SOP and that why in the movie, Pvt Jamie Smith died.



Dude, I NEVER SAID ANYTHING regarding PLA evac chopper, I simply say under the current medical procedure, the role of Armoured Ambulance is redundant, did I say anything about PLA chopper? Please do not try to put word on my mouth.



lol, I don't care what China and Russia do, but if you think Russia will cooperate with China after the Chinese steal the Su-27 design and turn them into J-11, then I think you are stupider than Putin.

Chinese Navy can never have the same power than US Navy, Chinese Navy do not have influence overseas, while the US Navy is an International Navy. If there were war between US and China tomorrow, the only port open to China outside Chinese Soil is some Africa port and Pakistan, but the USN would have a world reach. Not to mention for Chinese Navy to go across the Pacific, they will need to pass thru Pearl Harbour, which IS AMERICAN SOIL. You can of course build 100 Aircraft carrier that carry 10,000 Aircraft, but where are you going to put the carrier when you only have 2 deep sea ports?

You would be dreaming to think PLAN would somehow edged the USN in Number and Quality on weapon platform.

And there are reason why those country rather submitted to the US then getting Chinese Weapon, nobody stop Saddam Hussein to get Chinese weapon, no one is stopping the Taliban from getting Chinese Weapon, care to think why they rather lose to US in an unfair fight then use Chinese weapon??

It's just matter of time. If china wanted to overtake America as world power, China would have to share with Russia. Only then they could become strong where 1 has tech while 1 has wealth.

Fyi, i didn't really bother to memorize the names in black hawk down. Only to check the accuracy of the movie and special effects.

Why would PLAN go to America? The customers are on the west side, not east. For Iran, Iraq, Syria, etc the route is through Azerbaijan passing through land. That was also the route used by Iran to ship the captured abrams, mraps, etc to china and Russia. Later on captured f16 would be shipped to china too. Please get your Pentagon to sell more advanced weapons to Iraq, they'll be great contribution to China and Russia.

 

[jhungary]

Do you see russian radar guided AA-7 Apex carried by mig23 air to air missiles work against US f15 during the war in 70's after vietnam? They don't seems to work yet mig23s gotten into dogfight having to acquire lock from the rear using IR guided missiles. Your F15a would begin launching AIM-7 and with some success splashing migs from 20 miles away. Soviet weapons would rely on quantity, slipping to your rear or lure your fighters into SAMs and AAAs to fight.

Russian avionics only get on par with Americans in the 90's enough to challenge your fighters and choppers but not the mbts.

Say if Russia ignored your warning and sent their fleet to escort precious fresh weapons and supplies cargo to Iraq in late 90's selling them the su27sm, mig33, su30mk with full armaments packages, a50 awacs, 2s6, sa17, s300, sa15 , mi28 havoc with armaments package and complete ground forces t90, bmp3, btr90, 2s19, bm30, etc. You think America would dare to fight?

That is why you are a civvies and we are/were military personnel.

What do you mean "Dare to fight?" Afghan Taliban were years behind US tech and there are no chance virtually for them to win an open conflict, did it mean they should pack up and roll over?

There are no "Dare to fight" in military, you join the course, then you will have to fight, even if you are on the underhand. If you have to fight, you will have to fight, this is not a bar room bawl where you can "Buff" your way out, if life and national security is at stake, you WILL fight with your hand if you have to.

People like you rooting for science and technology, know the absolutely square root of jack shit of people in war. People like us, I have tasted dirt in Iraq, I had try to dig with my hand and teeth to get me deeper into the sand, I have been bombed at by our own Air Force, I have been on the receiving end of Taliban and Iraqi Insurgent Mortar and Rocket Artillery, I had been on the receiving end of our own mortar and artillery, I had been on the receiving end of small fire from JUST ABOUT EVERYBODY.

For us, fighting in a war is about survival, for you, it's a dick measurement, I got bigger gun than you, I got better tank than you. Do you know what it's like to have a 500 pounder explode 600 meters away from you? Come back and talk to me about "Dare to Fight" when you had one.

It's just matter of time. If china wanted to overtake America as world power, China would have to share with Russia. Only then they could become strong where 1 has tech while 1 has wealth.

LOL, ARE YOU REALLY THAT DUMB? I am starting to think you are just playing dumb because even the PDF brigade here won't say something along the line "Share with Russia"

Yeah, you can share with Russia, how about that? Maybe you will cede some of the territories to them, or they will cede some of their territories to you? While you are at it, why not "Share with India" or "Share with Japan" too?

Dude, you do know forming an alliance is not just "Insert Random Country here" right?

I laugh so hard when I read this

Fyi, i didn't really bother to memorize the names in black hawk down. Only to check the accuracy of the movie and special effects.

You do know the only thing about right and realistic about Black Hawk Down is the character name, right? So if you don't bother to remember the character name, why watch the movie in the first place?

Why would PLAN go to America? The customers are on the west side, not east. For Iran, Iraq, Syria, etc the route is through Azerbaijan passing through land. That was also the route used by Iran to ship the captured abrams, mraps, etc to china and Russia. Later on captured f16 would be shipped to china too. Please get your Pentagon to sell more advanced weapons to Iraq, they'll be great contribution to China and Russia.

lol, again, exactly how dumb are you?

What that have to do with Abrams and F-16? Do you even remember the closest allies of China already operate the latest version of F-16? Why would you want to capture one in Iraq and transport them thru Iran and Azerbaijan, but not simply transfer them from Pakistan to China? I mean, Pakistan is your all weather friend, right?

Also, Iran had F-14 for a really long time, does that make any different to China?

You have to be stupid to think country we sold weapon to would simply hand over them, maybe you should try and capture an Abrams, F-16 and MRAP yourselves, and see how easy you can do it.

And did you forget about the Chinese so called friend in South America? Or you suggest the Chinese route all the way around the globe to visit place like Bolivia and Venezuela. Are there land route you can go from China to Venezuela without going across the pacific?

 

[kungfugymnast]

That is why you are a civvies and we are/were military personnel.

What do you mean "Dare to fight?" Afghan Taliban were years behind US tech and there are no chance virtually for them to win an open conflict, did it mean they should pack up and roll over?

There are no "Dare to fight" in military, you join the course, then you will have to fight, even if you are on the underhand. If you have to fight, you will have to fight, this is not a bar room bawl where you can "Buff" your way out, if life and national security is at stake, you WILL fight with your hand if you have to.

People like you rooting for science and technology, know the absolutely square root of jack shit of people in war. People like us, I have tasted dirt in Iraq, I had try to dig with my hand and teeth to get me deeper into the sand, I have been bombed at by our own Air Force, I have been on the receiving end of Taliban and Iraqi Insurgent Mortar and Rocket Artillery, I had been on the receiving end of our own mortar and artillery, I had been on the receiving end of small fire from JUST ABOUT EVERYBODY.

For us, fighting in a war is about survival, for you, it's a dick measurement, I got bigger gun than you, I got better tank than you. Do you know what it's like to have a 500 pounder explode 600 meters away from you? Come back and talk to me about "Dare to Fight" when you had one.



LOL, ARE YOU REALLY THAT DUMB? I am starting to think you are just playing dumb because even the PDF brigade here won't say something along the line "Share with Russia"

Yeah, you can share with Russia, how about that? Maybe you will cede some of the territories to them, or they will cede some of their territories to you? While you are at it, why not "Share with India" or "Share with Japan" too?

Dude, you do know forming an alliance is not just "Insert Random Country here" right?

I laugh so hard when I read this



You do know the only thing about right and realistic about Black Hawk Down is the character name, right? So if you don't bother to remember the character name, why watch the movie in the first place?



lol, again, exactly how dumb are you?

What that have to do with Abrams and F-16? Do you even remember the closest allies of China already operate the latest version of F-16? Why would you want to capture one in Iraq and transport them thru Iran and Azerbaijan, but not simply transfer them from Pakistan to China? I mean, Pakistan is your all weather friend, right?

Also, Iran had F-14 for a really long time, does that make any different to China?

You have to be stupid to think country we sold weapon to would simply hand over them, maybe you should try and capture an Abrams, F-16 and MRAP yourselves, and see how easy you can do it.

And did you forget about the Chinese so called friend in South America? Or you suggest the Chinese route all the way around the globe to visit place like Bolivia and Venezuela. Are there land route you can go from China to Venezuela without going across the pacific?

Can't deny that the Talibans and ISIS are more daring to fight to their deaths compared to your troops. Without advanced weapons, your troops would not go into the fight in the first place.

The word dare to fight, Georgia military is best example to describe that word. They fled without putting up a fight when Russian and abkhaz forces invaded Georgia.

Uhm.. Russia is indirectly sharing tech with China for money. In return, Russian get to build up their military and spend some of the cash for R&D. Like the SU-35S sales to China. Share with allies doesn't mean giving own land to ally. UK is closest ally of America, do you see Brits giving their lands to American? They share black gold profit from war in Iraq, that's called US shared with Brits.

Black hawk down movie, the realism i compared was the battle and how it was played in movie compared to real thing. Not the names of casualties.

The latest f16 is the block 60 f-16e/f operated by your allies in middle east. How do you expect china to get that? If insurgents happened to capture f16 block 50/52 and sold to china, the chinese could cannibalize and performed whatever test necessary to reverse engineer. Pakistan f16c, they paid dearly for 1, Chinese have to handle with extra care without breaking 1 beyond ability to put everything back. Besides, China get to buy from insurgents for the f16s at far cheaper price. It's not unexpected if China already obtained the f14A, f4e.

Back to iraq, have you been sleeping lately? Hezbollah been driving MRAPs and operating Abram tanks. You think they didn't send some of these to China for R&D?

Ah, you're referring South America countries that buy arms from China. Sure, China could look for routes to these countries if 1 of them pissed off your country. America doesn't own south america therefore, there's always alternative route via neighboring countries.