New Armored Ambulance For Chinese PLA

[BoQ77]

I did read books written by unbiased Vietnamese and Americans published during 1990. Also, i refer news from Vietnamese who lived near the border and saw the war with French, Americans and China, they got lots of great stories to tell especially those who fought. Vietnamese forces kept moving and shifting after every battle so that US bombers that came in retaliation ended up bombing wrong sites. The underground tunnel network, NVA and Vietcong created fake bait as diversion. Say my kitchen is at the east, my exhaust chimney flow out few km to the west. US troops attacked west decoy, vietnamese troops will sneak to US troops rear and side then started shooting.

underground tunnel has nothing to do with NVA while chimney story is about them. Not only APC but also tanks are difficult to operate in Vietnam. So that "helicopter"
My grandpa is a senior colonel, while my father is a major, my mother is captain.
So hope that I could share the real experience to you.
My father joined the army in 1964 and ever been in SVN and Laos battlefield, he also deal with air defense and POW/MIA

 

[kungfugymnast]

underground tunnel has nothing to do with NVA while chimney story is about them. Not only APC but also tanks are difficult to operate in Vietnam. So that "helicopter"
My grandpa is a senior colonel, while my father is a major, my mother is captain.
So hope that I could share the real experience to you.
My father joined the army in 1964 and ever been in SVN and Laos battlefield, he also deal with air defense and POW/MIA

Good, that is why you like military and know much about military. They fought hard to free the people and get the country back from invaders. You should treasure it by developing it into modern nation. Put aside hatred and focus on knowledge, economy and science.

 

[BoQ77]

Good, that is why you like military and know much about military. They fought hard to free the people and get the country back from invaders. You should treasure it by developing it into modern nation. Put aside hatred and focus on knowledge, economy and science.

I must admit I expressed hatred against hawkism guys who never feel Sorry for mistakes. same like what you guys feel about Imperial Japanese Army in the past.
But I feel good with members like you.

Good, that is why you like military and know much about military. They fought hard to free the people and get the country back from invaders. You should treasure it by developing it into modern nation. Put aside hatred and focus on knowledge, economy and science.

I must admit I expressed hatred against hawkism guys who never feel Sorry for mistakes. same like what you guys feel about Imperial Japanese Army in the past.
But I feel good with members like you.

 

[kungfugymnast]

I must admit I expressed hatred against hawkism guys who never feel Sorry for mistakes. same like what you guys feel about Imperial Japanese Army in the past.
But I feel good with members like you.



I must admit I expressed hatred against hawkism guys who never feel Sorry for mistakes. same like what you guys feel about Imperial Japanese Army in the past.
But I feel good with members like you.

There are small numbers of Chinese who are still backwards and outdated over ego brainwashed by Mao's ridiculous propaganda. They just didn't bother to check facts or chose not to believe. Just counter them with facts and they'll be left speechless.

 

[jhungary]

Most MERT in today military focus on Casevac instead of Medevac. The golden hour rule virtually make the Land Base ambulance unit redundant. While the battle field expanded often into 65km to 100km from main base. Which mean travel by land would only be reserved to T-3 or some T-2 Case. Which means they were reserved for soldier that weren't critically hurt and can evacuate them up to 6 hours of injury.

Hence brought to a good question, why would armoured ambulance still exist?

 

[kungfugymnast]

Most MERT in today military focus on Casevac instead of Medevac. The golden hour rule virtually make the Land Base ambulance unit redundant. While the battle field expanded often into 65km to 100km from main base. Which mean travel by land would only be reserved to T-3 or some T-2 Case. Which means they were reserved for soldier that weren't critically hurt and can evacuate them up to 6 hours of injury.

Hence brought to a good question, why would armoured ambulance still exist?

THis has been explained again and again. Your ground forces have armored ambulance still in active service. Go check blackhawk down during Somalia conflict. Why most of the wounded special forces were taken home in Humvees, St Ives trucks, IFVs and APCs instead of the dozens of empty blackhawks, eh? The blackhawks mostly either flew to high altitude and fled the area quickly. That's because of heavy enemy ground fire, that's why. LZ is too hot, at least you now know why.

You wouldn't want to ride a vulnerable chopper when there are rpgs, manpads, AAAs and SAMs nearby.

 

[jhungary]

THis has been explained again and again. Your ground forces have armored ambulance still in active service. Go check blackhawk down during Somalia conflict. Why most of the wounded special forces were taken home in Humvees, St Ives trucks, IFVs and APCs instead of the dozens of empty blackhawks, eh? The blackhawks mostly either flew to high altitude and fled the area quickly. That's because of heavy enemy ground fire, that's why. LZ is too hot, at least you now know why.

You wouldn't want to ride a vulnerable chopper when there are rpgs, manpads, AAAs and SAMs nearby.

First, Black Hawk down is a movie that made in 2001, but it was about the war we fought in 1996. HARDLY RECENT as of 2015. As I said, ground base patient transport are now limited to Casevac, there are no Armoured Ambulance involved. Mostly just use armoured transport to carry T-2 and T-3 out as if they were unwounded.

Do you even know how Casevac and Medevac has changed since 2000? Actually, do you even know what is Casevac and what is Medevac?

 

[kungfugymnast]

First, Black Hawk down is a movie that made in 2001, but it was about the war we fought in 1996. HARDLY RECENT as of 2015. As I said, ground base patient transport are now limited to Casevac, there are no Armoured Ambulance involved. Mostly just use armoured transport to carry T-2 and T-3 out as if they were unwounded.

Do you even know how Casevac and Medevac has changed since 2000? Actually, do you even know what is Casevac and what is Medevac?

Why would i bother with your American military naming policy? We only care which technology is good and we'll attempt to replicate, that's all. To make money, we sell. Currently, your wounded troops are either lifted out or ferried out with minimum comfort, sometimes non at all where they had to endure the pain and discomfort all the way out. China now starting to care for the soldiers so they came up with comfort and safety. Even you would want to ride in china armored ambulance.

 

[jhungary]

Why would i bother with your American military naming policy? We only care which technology is good and we'll attempt to replicate, that's all. To make money, we sell. Currently, your wounded troops are either lifted out or ferried out with minimum comfort, sometimes non at all where they had to endure the pain and discomfort all the way out. China now starting to care for the soldiers so they came up with comfort and safety. Even you would want to ride in china armored ambulance.

First of all, this is NOT AN AMERICAN MILITARY NAMING POLICY.

Casevac and Medevac is an international terminology determined by the International Red Cross, basically determined how your wounded is going to lift out, it does not matter if the wounded is an American, Brits, Chinese or Australian, the system are the same in each country in the world. Unless your country don't want to save their wounded, then that's another story.

The Casevac determined T-1 (Priority-1) patient which on route care are not as much important than on site care. To any T-1, they need to be transfer to a Fully Equipped Hospital within 1 hour (60 minutes) or their chance of survival are less than 0. For them, comfort and safety is not as important than to get to the hospital on time. You can enjoy your armoured protection and safe ride, but all the while you are bleeding to death, You do know even the fastest of tank can only do 5o km/h, so unless China planning on fighting a war with hospital litter every 50 Km, no, I do not want to get in those armoured ambulance, I want to go to the hospital and into operation room as quickly as possible.

but for T-2 and T-3, those who can wait, what is the point of getting on a armoured ambulance? Where A.) You can wait. B.) you can just send any old armoured vehicle and take them out anyway. The need to a specially designed Ambulance is wasted.

Battlefield evacuation is not a simple requirement, it's not just safe and comfort will be enough, imagine you have a 4 inch hole on your chest and had a sucking chest wound, unless you can perform lifesaving operation on that armoured ambulance, you would want to go to a fully equipped hospital as soon as you can.

 

[kungfugymnast]

First of all, this is NOT AN AMERICAN MILITARY NAMING POLICY.

Casevac and Medevac is an international terminology determined by the International Red Cross, basically determined how your wounded is going to lift out, it does not matter if the wounded is an American, Brits, Chinese or Australian, the system are the same in each country in the world. Unless your country don't want to save their wounded, then that's another story.

The Casevac determined T-1 (Priority-1) patient which on route care are not as much important than on site care. To any T-1, they need to be transfer to a Fully Equipped Hospital within 1 hour (60 minutes) or their chance of survival are less than 0. For them, comfort and safety is not as important than to get to the hospital on time. You can enjoy your armoured protection and safe ride, but all the while you are bleeding to death, You do know even the fastest of tank can only do 5o km/h, so unless China planning on fighting a war with hospital litter every 50 Km, no, I do not want to get in those armoured ambulance, I want to go to the hospital and into operation room as quickly as possible.

but for T-2 and T-3, those who can wait, what is the point of getting on a armoured ambulance? Where A.) You can wait. B.) you can just send any old armoured vehicle and take them out anyway. The need to a specially designed Ambulance is wasted.

Battlefield evacuation is not a simple requirement, it's not just safe and comfort will be enough, imagine you have a 4 inch hole on your chest and had a sucking chest wound, unless you can perform lifesaving operation on that armoured ambulance, you would want to go to a fully equipped hospital as soon as you can.

Whatever jargon you're posting, the point in terms of war casualties is simple. Armored ambulance would be at middle or rear lines escorting battalions into warzone ready to save any wounded and ferry to safety while treating or stopping wounds. Choppers will be used when the area is clear for landing.

If your country thinks its military already so advanced assuming all upcoming war where enemy forces are far inferior until there's no need for war ambulance is up to you.

Please tell your leaders not to imposed arms embargo on countries that they attack next time. Several countries need to make money by selling them weapons and supplies. Since America assumed Russian, Chinese weapons are inferior, why starve the targeted country without giving it fair fight to fend for itself?

 

[jhungary]

Whatever jargon you're posting, the point in terms of war casualties is simple. Armored ambulance would be at middle or rear lines escorting battalions into warzone ready to save any wounded and ferry to safety while treating or stopping wounds. Choppers will be used when the area is clear for landing.

lol. With these 2 post, it only show how you don't understand Casualty Evacuation works..

First of all, Helicopter does not need a secure patch to do evacuation, that's where CSAR and TRAP is for.

Modern Medicine dictate that if a wounded is losing blood and the wound cannot be closed (T-1), That mean whatever you do in the field would not help the patient, that patient will then need to be transport to a fully equipped combat hospital within 1 hour time. That's when you would lose almost all your blood before your lose consciousness.

There are only 4 Classification on casualty ever used to categorize/tirage the patient.

T-1 Emergency, Life Threatening Injury (Bleeding, Open Wound)
T-2 Emergency, Non-Life Threatening Injury (Not Bleeding Closed Wounded)
T-3 Non-Emergency, Litter Patient (Walking Wounded)
T-4 Expectant (Dead/Beyond Helping)

In today world, unless you don't care if your patient are going to bled to death, Ground Transport are reserved for T-2/T-3/T-4 only, because you would have 2-6 hours limit to transport your patient before they, bled to death. T-1 have around 45 minutes to 1 hour before they are bled to death. So, unless your armoured ambulance can fly, or you litter your combat hospital every 50KM, by the time your T-1 Patient safely and comfortable arrived to your hospital, he would have been bled out and died already.

For T-2/T-3/T-4, where time is not a factor here, then you could simply exfil them with any and every way you can, thus rendering the whole Armoured Ambulance concept redundant.

If your country thinks its military already so advanced assuming all upcoming war where enemy forces are far inferior until there's no need for war ambulance is up to you.

It's not because we think we are advance, but this is because we care about our patient, any country that care about their patient would have use dustoff, it's like saying you can use broadband internet but you still prefer 56k dial up.

Please tell your leaders not to imposed arms embargo on countries that they attack next time. Several countries need to make money by selling them weapons and supplies. Since America assumed Russian, Chinese weapons are inferior, why starve the targeted country without giving it fair fight to fend for itself?

Again, you are talking crap. Do you know from Vietnam war onward, which when American start extensively use of helicopter, all of the American enemies since then are basically master in ground/air defence

Vietnam and Iraq both have state of the arts Anti-Air radar and SAM system, Yugoslavia were basically Russian playground and littered with Russian made advance SAM. And Afghanistan AA system are trained and equipped with none other than the CIA themselves.

To say this is not a fair fight mean you KNOW NOTHING ABOUT MODERN BATTLEFIELD.

Have you actually been on the front line on both receiving end and giving end before? I had.

 

[BoQ77]

This is a Dust Off @kungfugymnast

Vietnam War is undeclared war of American.
American use helicopters the most for that

About Dustoff / Medevac
The Vietnam War posed a unique logistical challenge to the military leaders. The war was fought in triple canopy jungle terrain and bad weather, there were constant guerilla attacks and the front line changed from day to day. Often vehicles traveling on the roads were subject to landmines, ambushes and poor road conditions, and some of the areas where heavy fighting took place were so remote there were no roads. All of these factors posed one major problem for the military. How do they transport the wounded safely and in a timely manner to the aid stations and hospitals for proper medical care? The Army’s medical branch decided to revisit an idea that came about in the Korean War – a helicopter ambulance corps. An idea that was implemented with so much success in Vietnam that in most cases a wounded soldier would be in a hospital receiving medical care within 35 minutes of being wounded.

 

[kungfugymnast]

This is a Dust Off @kungfugymnast


About Dustoff / Medevac
The Vietnam War posed a unique logistical challenge to the military leaders. The war was fought in triple canopy jungle terrain and bad weather, there were constant guerilla attacks and the front line changed from day to day. Often vehicles traveling on the roads were subject to landmines, ambushes and poor road conditions, and some of the areas where heavy fighting took place were so remote there were no roads. All of these factors posed one major problem for the military. How do they transport the wounded safely and in a timely manner to the aid stations and hospitals for proper medical care? The Army’s medical branch decided to revisit an idea that came about in the Korean War – a helicopter ambulance corps. An idea that was implemented with so much success in Vietnam that in most cases a wounded soldier would be in a hospital receiving medical care within 35 minutes of being wounded.

Terrain not accessible by ground vehicles would need chopper ofcourse. Armored ambulance usually follows tanks and mechanized infantry units behind.

lol. With these 2 post, it only show how you don't understand Casualty Evacuation works..

First of all, Helicopter does not need a secure patch to do evacuation, that's where CSAR and TRAP is for.

Modern Medicine dictate that if a wounded is losing blood and the wound cannot be closed (T-1), That mean whatever you do in the field would not help the patient, that patient will then need to be transport to a fully equipped combat hospital within 1 hour time. That's when you would lose almost all your blood before your lose consciousness.

There are only 4 Classification on casualty ever used to categorize/tirage the patient.

T-1 Emergency, Life Threatening Injury (Bleeding, Open Wound)
T-2 Emergency, Non-Life Threatening Injury (Not Bleeding Closed Wounded)
T-3 Non-Emergency, Litter Patient (Walking Wounded)
T-4 Expectant (Dead/Beyond Helping)

In today world, unless you don't care if your patient are going to bled to death, Ground Transport are reserved for T-2/T-3/T-4 only, because you would have 2-6 hours limit to transport your patient before they, bled to death. T-1 have around 45 minutes to 1 hour before they are bled to death. So, unless your armoured ambulance can fly, or you litter your combat hospital every 50KM, by the time your T-1 Patient safely and comfortable arrived to your hospital, he would have been bled out and died already.

For T-2/T-3/T-4, where time is not a factor here, then you could simply exfil them with any and every way you can, thus rendering the whole Armoured Ambulance concept redundant.



It's not because we think we are advance, but this is because we care about our patient, any country that care about their patient would have use dustoff, it's like saying you can use broadband internet but you still prefer 56k dial up.



Again, you are talking crap. Do you know from Vietnam war onward, which when American start extensively use of helicopter, all of the American enemies since then are basically master in ground/air defence

Vietnam and Iraq both have state of the arts Anti-Air radar and SAM system, Yugoslavia were basically Russian playground and littered with Russian made advance SAM. And Afghanistan AA system are trained and equipped with none other than the CIA themselves.

To say this is not a fair fight mean you KNOW NOTHING ABOUT MODERN BATTLEFIELD.

Have you actually been on the front line on both receiving end and giving end before? I had.

Somalia war (black hawk down), your arrogant US special forces said they don't need the low tech UN forces assistance and could defeat Aidid forces alone. But then you blackhawks was shot down with your special forces trapped or pinned down. With much hesitation, your fob commander asked for multinational forces help. So why can't your blackhawks perform dust off, eh? Few of the soldiers died of bleeding due to artery punctured. UN forces came and fought off the somali fighters. Your injured were transported out finally on ifv and apc instead of dustoff. When they all got home, your American officers began yelling at UN forces for not joining the fight earlier. It was you Americans who told the UN to step aside.

Iraq and Serbia didn't have advanced russian sams. You call sa~2 and sa-6 advanced? During serbia and iraqi freedom war, those sams are already far obsolete. Without latest fighters that that time, these SAMs will be easily jammed by ECM aircraft with reduced effectiveness and vulnerable to aircraft flying SEAD and attack helicopters. You already crippled most of their defenses before your ground forces move in

 

[jhungary]

Somalia war (black hawk down), your arrogant US special forces said they don't need the low tech UN forces assistance and could defeat Aidid forces alone. But then you blackhawks was shot down with your special forces trapped or pinned down. With much hesitation, your fob commander asked for multinational forces help. So why can't your blackhawks perform dust off, eh? Few of the soldiers died of bleeding due to artery punctured. UN forces came and fought off the somali fighters. Your injured were transported out finally on ifv and apc instead of dustoff. When they all got home, your American officers began yelling at UN forces for not joining the fight earlier. It was you Americans who told the UN to step aside.

First of all, the movie Black Hawk Down IS NOT ABOUT CASEVAC, and the US Special Force have a ground component. Col McKnight Column of Humvee and truck were running around the crash site all the time during the so called "Rescue".

The whole Ranger Regiment were lift out of Bakara market, not just the wounded. That is why we need the UN armoured (And to be fair, most of them are from the US 10th Mountain Div anyway with 16 Condor APC and 4 M-48 tank from Malaysia and Pakistan out of the 100 vehicle convoy). It is impossible to airlift out all the soldier by air. Even the ground convoy is not enough to plug ALL the ranger out and some of the ranger have to run the "Mogadishu Mile"

Mogadishu Mile - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And what you don't see from the movie is that the seriously wounded soldier were airlifted by AH-6 Little Bird and Black Hawk instead of Ground Armoured Vehicle. The one that was evacuated by Ground vehicle were the one that got hit on the leg or arms which were deemed "Stabled Casualty" Other T-1 or Cat A were picked up by AH-6 early on in the battle.

If you remember about the movie, you see in the movie when Sgt Eversmman Platoon first arrive on the first crash scene, the AH-6 crew were pulling one of the serious injured delta out from their helicopter, which the man later died on operation table.

Not to mention you have avoid all my question and instead ring out a war fought 22 years ago and measure it to the modern Casevac and Medevac requirement.

Again, if you have a sucking chest wound and can't stop bleeding, maybe you will want to stay in your armoured ambulance, everyone else would have wanted a Helicopter Dustoff.

Iraq and Serbia didn't have advanced russian sams. You call sa~2 and sa-6 advanced? During serbia and iraqi freedom war, those sams are already far obsolete. Without latest fighters that that time, these SAMs will be easily jammed by ECM aircraft with reduced effectiveness and vulnerable to aircraft flying SEAD and attack helicopters. You already crippled most of their defenses before your ground forces move in

Again some BS from you.

You do know SA-6 was advanced during 1990s right, when I talk about advance, it's not about now, some 20 years later, the war is not fought now, it was fought in 1990s.

One of the requirement of the war for anyone side is to neutralise enemy Air Defence, just because the US flew successful SEAD mission does not mean Iraq and Serbia Air Defence is crap. You do know they did bring down some of our aircraft, right? the Serbia down 2 F-16 and 1 F-117 and the Iraqi down a few F-16 and F-18.

Once again, you just show how little you know about Military.

 

[BoQ77]

Amored Ambulance may be luxury assets in an army like VPA
Dust off mission maybe too luxury in an army like PLA

So there's potential demand for Amored Ambulance vehicle.

My opinion, they are suitable to UN mission,

First of all, the movie Black Hawk Down IS NOT ABOUT CASEVAC, and the US Special Force have a ground component. Col McKnight Column of Humvee and truck were running around the crash site all the time during the so called "Rescue".

The whole Ranger Regiment were lift out of Bakara market, not just the wounded. That is why we need the UN armoured (And to be fair, most of them are from the US 10th Mountain Div anyway with 16 Condor APC and 4 M-48 tank from Malaysia and Pakistan out of the 100 vehicle convoy). It is impossible to airlift out all the soldier by air. Even the ground convoy is not enough to plug ALL the ranger out and some of the ranger have to run the "Mogadishu Mile"

Mogadishu Mile - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And what you don't see from the movie is that the seriously wounded soldier were airlifted by AH-6 Little Bird and Black Hawk instead of Ground Armoured Vehicle. The one that was evacuated by Ground vehicle were the one that got hit on the leg or arms which were deemed "Stabled Casualty" Other T-1 or Cat A were picked up by AH-6 early on in the battle.

If you remember about the movie, you see in the movie when Sgt Eversmman Platoon first arrive on the first crash scene, the AH-6 crew were pulling one of the serious injured delta out from their helicopter, which the man later died on operation table.

Not to mention you have avoid all my question and instead ring out a war fought 22 years ago and measure it to the modern Casevac and Medevac requirement.

Again, if you have a sucking chest wound and can't stop bleeding, maybe you will want to stay in your armoured ambulance, everyone else would have wanted a Helicopter Dustoff.



Again some BS from you.

You do know SA-6 was advanced during 1990s right, when I talk about advance, it's not about now, some 20 years later, the war is not fought now, it was fought in 1990s.

One of the requirement of the war for anyone side is to neutralise enemy Air Defence, just because the US flew successful SEAD mission does not mean Iraq and Serbia Air Defence is crap. You do know they did bring down some of our aircraft, right? the Serbia down 2 F-16 and 1 F-117 and the Iraqi down a few F-16 and F-18.

Once again, you just show how little you know about Military.