Naval guards: India moves to downgrade diplomatic ties with Italy

[Screambowl]

Any compensation from Italy side killing innocent fishmen?

they were giving it long time back.. no idea how much

 

[EXPERIMENT]

Koovie, That is what the Indians and the Italians disagree on, what was the location of the incident. The Indians said it was in the Indian water, the Italians said it was in international water. This has to be sorted out.

If indeed it happened in the Indian water, the marines are still not murderers. There is no indication that these two had the notion to kill the fishermen when the Italians got up that morning.

You have no idea on this case yet you want to vomit all over this thread. What are your intentions?

There is no disagreement on location. The ship has gps and logs etc. these were seized even though the ship attempted to erase data( that proves guilt in my opinion) Both the Kerala High Court and Supreme Court have declared that the ship was in Indian waters at the time of the shooting.

Looking at the pictures of the fishing boat. Near impossible to be mistaken for a Pirate ship. It was white and blue for gods sake, nor does it have the speed which piracy requires. As far as I am concerned a couple of bored guys doing some target practise on open seas thinking they will get away with it easy.

The Manmohan government has been trying to spin a release under the nose of the Indian public. A treaty being signed now of all times that lets Italians leave scot free after conviction.

This is High Treason against the Indian constitution and public. How this unfolds is a good test for the Indian Public and I hope Justice is served in Indian Jail. If the spin succeeds the media moves on and the public forgets. I will then reconsider if I will continue to invest in my country India.

 

[janon]

First question is why were they allowed to leave to vote. Its all seem to be part of some badly scripted bollywood movie.

Because the government of Italy gave what was considered to be a solemn, written undertaking through its embassy to the supreme court of India that they would return. The Italian ambassador himself gave a signed affidavit in the supreme court, acting as surety for their bail (which is why that dude won't see Italy for some time now). Nobody expects a country to violate such governmental agreements, especially not a country with which we have had nothing but friendly relations all this while.

 

[faithfulguy]

No but they fired at the fishermen with full knowledge of the consequences of their actions, without trying to ascertain, weather infact these were pirates or not!!
And on top of it after giving word to the ministry of external affairs, the Italians betrayed us and the Marines are still not back!!

And they will not be back. India will down grade relations and make some token gestures. After a while, India will need Italy again for something and the Indian government will forget about this whole episode.

 

[Secur]

I would like to know from any knowledgeable Indian member if there's provision in your law to send the foreign prisoners to their country for voting and other national/religious festivals ... Because this is the first time anything like that has happened ...

 

[Secur]

Because the government of Italy gave what was considered to be a solemn, written undertaking through its embassy to the supreme court of India that they would return.

Really ? Isn't it then a violation of accepted International norms ? I thought there was some money involved as bail or anything ...

Whats the story with the Italian ambassador ? I couldn't understand it , why are the airports asked not to let him go ? Surely , he cant be detained ...

 

[IND151]

Meanwhile, all the exit points, including airports across the country have been alerted to prevent Italian ambassador Daniele Mancini from leaving the country. The decision was taken by the Union home ministry a day after the Supreme Court restrained the Italian ambassador from leaving India without its permission, official sources said.

Good. very good

EU has refused to comment or interfere in what it feels is a bilateral matter between India and Italy - strictly "no comments" from the EU on the notice served to the Italian ambassador who has been told not to leave the country till March 19th.

Perhaps recently India was secretly trying to check whether EU will support Italy actively or not, and then It planed and executed moves mentioned in OP

 

[sarthak]

And they will not be back. India will down grade relations and make some token gestures. After a while, India will need Italy again for something and the Indian government will forget about this whole episode.

Not really , I guess most Indians can do without luxury leather shoes and expensive wine. Italian apparel stores are quite expensive for an average Indian and the clothes they have make you look quite gay to be honest . Women here have become quite fond of Gucci handpurses to show how much cash they have , but I guess they'll move to another company if they agree to sell these purses at an even higher price , so they can show off even more. Pasta can be locally made and so can Pizza.
Besides that , nothing of importance comes from Italy. Whatever Italy does , other EU countries ( germany , france etc) are much better at it. So yeah , we really don't need much from Italy.
The only thing of importance that we used to purchase from them were some defense products. For that , we have Israel ,russia , US, France , other EU companies and indigenous companies.

 

[janon]

I would like to know from any knowledgeable Indian member if there's provision in your law to send the foreign prisoners to their country for voting and other national/religious festivals ... Because this is the first time anything like that has happened ...

There is no such provision for PRISONERS. But these were undertrials, and not convicted. They were still presumed innocent, pending trial, as per the Indian norm. Undertrials have every right to take bail, unless they are deemed a flight risk. Sending undertrials to a foreign country was perhaps a first - but then we probably have never had such a situation arise before.

When they were undergoing trial, they were not even under arrest in a prison, but for most of the time, they were housed in comfy guest houses, paid for by their govt. We were giving them every leniency possible, considering they murdered two of our nationals. They were even allowed to argue against the Supreme court having jurisdiction, and if their legal team could have proved that, they wouldn't even have been tried in India anymore. Only their travel was restricted, they were leading a pretty comortable life, except for a few days they spent in prison.

The most high profile constitutional layer in the country (an ex solicitor general of India) was defending them, and there is every chance that they may have been let go, if they underwent trial (or given a token, lenient sentence), because of the question of jurisdiction.

That's when they decided to "do a bunk", assisted by no less than their ambassador himself.

 

[halfilhal]

Not really , I guess most Indians can do without luxury leather shoes and expensive wine. Italian apparel stores are quite expensive for an average Indian and the clothes they have make you look quite gay to be honest . Women here have become quite fond of Gucci handpurses to show how much cash they have , but I guess they'll move to another company if they agree to sell these purses at an even higher price , so they can show off even more. Pasta can be locally made and so can Pizza.
Besides that , nothing of importance comes from Italy. Whatever Italy does , other EU countries ( germany , france etc) are much better at it. So yeah , we really don't need much from Italy.
The only thing of importance that we used to purchase from them were some defense products. For that , we have Israel ,russia , US, France , other EU companies and indigenous companies.

This is a country we are talking about here, not your next door neighbor.

 

[mehboobkz]

There is no such provision for PRISONERS. But these were undertrials, and not convicted. They were still presumed innocent, pending trial, as per the Indian norm. Undertrials have every right to take bail, unless they are deemed a flight risk. Sending undertrials to a foreign country was perhaps a first - but then we probably have never had such a situation arise before.

When they were undergoing trial, they were not even under arrest in a prison, but for most of the time, they were housed in comfy guest houses, paid for by their govt. We were giving them every leniency possible, considering they murdered two of our nationals. They were even allowed to argue against the Supreme court having jurisdiction, and if their legal team could have proved that, they wouldn't even have been tried in India anymore. Only their travel was restricted, they were leading a pretty comortable life, except for a few days they spent in prison.

The most high profile constitutional layer in the country (an ex solicitor general of India) was defending them, and there is every chance that they may have been let go, if they underwent trial (or given a token, lenient sentence), because of the question of jurisdiction.

That's when they decided to "do a bunk", assisted by no less than their ambassador himself.

There is only one buzz word, one key word here if Indian people connect the dots;
SONIA

 

[janon]

Really ? Isn't it then a violation of accepted International norms ? I thought there was some money involved as bail or anything ...

Whats the story with the Italian ambassador ? I couldn't understand it , why are the airports asked not to let him go ? Surely , he cant be detained ...

Yes, it is a flagrant violation of all diplomatic behavior, and an outrage on the laws of statecraft. Why do you think Indians are so angry? Such an act would have been unthinkable between India and Pakistan, if either country deliberately fails to honor signed affidavits with each other's embassies. Now who would expect such an act from Italy on India, two countries that have only had friendly relations with each other?

The Italian ambassador acted as the personal guarantee of bail for these two. That is, he submitted in writing to the Supreme Court of India that he assures them of the safe return of these two shooters, and that he will be responsible of seeing that through. Which means, should he fail to return them as promised, he would be arrested and the shooters be brought back. But now that they are not coming back, he has decided to claim diplomatic immunity from being arrested or prosecuted by Indian authorities or courts. So the supreme court's position now is that he implicitly gave up his diplomatic immunity when he signed that affidavit, and submitted himself to the jurisdiction of the court, and therefore he can be arrested if necessary. Which is why the airports are asked not to let him through. Sure, arresting an ambassador may be unprecedented in diplomatic history, but then why should India play by these diplomatic niceties, when Italy didn't? Also, Italy has itself broken diplomatic norm and laws by failing to honor written commitments, so they have no right to be surprised at novel tactics by India too. They are not the USA, that they can get away with outrageous floutations of law; And India is too big for them to take for granted. Not in this day and age.

P.S: Also, the present government of India would be happy to go to any length because they simply cannot afford to be charged with being too soft on Italy, of all nations. That's the last thing they want with elections to come in a year or so, what with the huge perception of the GoI being an Italian government in disguise, or whatnot, due to the party president's national origin. Which, if you didn't know, is a political HOT POTATO in India.

 

[livingdead]

There is only one buzz word, one key word here if Indian people connect the dots;
SONIA

I dont think she has any hand in this. I suspect that GoI wanted them free anyway, just could not do because it became big political issue in kerala.
All this posturing is to save sonia though, because people will point fingers at her.

 

[mehboobkz]

I dont think she has any hand in this. I suspect that GoI wanted them free anyway, just could not do because it became big political issue in kerala.
All this posturing is to save sonia though, because people will point fingers at her.

First time bail of 1.2 million USD when they went for Christmas holidays, but this time, no bail, just plain piece of paper undertaking?

something is cooking...

 

[illusion8]

Not really , I guess most Indians can do without luxury leather shoes and expensive wine. Italian apparel stores are quite expensive for an average Indian and the clothes they have make you look quite gay to be honest . Women here have become quite fond of Gucci handpurses to show how much cash they have , but I guess they'll move to another company if they agree to sell these purses at an even higher price , so they can show off even more. Pasta can be locally made and so can Pizza.
Besides that , nothing of importance comes from Italy. Whatever Italy does , other EU countries ( germany , france etc) are much better at it. So yeah , we really don't need much from Italy.
The only thing of importance that we used to purchase from them were some defense products. For that , we have Israel ,russia , US, France , other EU companies and indigenous companies.

I would have avoided buying the Genuine Italian sofa if the marines had run away before....