Naval guards: India moves to downgrade diplomatic ties with Italy

[Srinivas]

I was relaying the online comments in Italy.

The Italian move has huge public support locally and the belief is that the marines should never have been in Indian custody in the first place; that they were somehow deceived/tricked off their ship.

Then why they have deceived GOI with their trickery, they should have stood trail and proved their innocence instead of doing mischief.

Now the Italian Govt. has to answer the public why they left the Ambassador(or an Italian citizen if he will be replaced) for the sake of "Killer Marines" .

 

[ashokdeiva]

the sad thing is , even SC is involved in this game. I cannot undestand why a court will allow them to travel to italy to cast vote when they could have done it here.

I am slowlly loosing faith in the Judicial system aswel. These days we can buy judgement

 

[janon]

India is too partial in handling the events that happen at Sea. one one hand they go to the extent of restricting the Italian Envoy from moving out of the country on 2 fisher men who got killed on the wester border, on the other hand they do not take any action on the 600 INDIAN fisher men so far killed by the SL navy on the Estern side of the nation.

False equivalence. The restrictions on the ambassador is not because two Italians killed two of our fishermen, but because the ambassador used his position to help them escape justice. If the Sri Lankan ambassador actively aided in the escape of two people from Indian custody, that too by misusing diplomatic trust, then the repercussions on him and sri lanka would have been a lot worse.

So this is an apples to oranges comparison.

 

[ashokdeiva]

False equivalence. The restrictions on the ambassador is not because two Italians killed two of our fishermen, but because the ambassador used his position to help them escape justice. If the Sri Lankan ambassador actively aided in the escape of two people from Indian custody, that too by misusing diplomatic trust, then the repercussions on him and sri lanka would have been a lot worse.

So this is an apples to oranges comparison.

I am talking about the killing of fisher men on either side of INDIA and INDIA not taking action on one side to charge the SL navy with killing and you are diverting the issue I raised.
where are you from, from Kerala? if so what is your take on INDIAN stand on the 600 fisher men killed on the TN side by foreign forces.
I am not talking about the action on the ambasodor alone, I am talking on the course of action INDIA on a whole handles with it comes to the same issue on two different places

 

[Developereo]

Then why they have deceived GOI with their trickery, they should have stood trail and proved their innocence instead of doing mischief.

Since they view the GoI as the hostage taker, allowing a trial would be like letting the hostage taker rape the hostages.

Now the Italian Govt. has to answer the public why they left the Ambassador(or an Italian citizen if he will be replaced) for the sake of "Killer Marines" .

Yes, that is now the new dilemma. From the frying pan into the fire!

 

[rockstarIN]

Couldn't agree more. Big, big blunder.

If there is any election in Kerala nowadays, even a bye election..all those sitting in the center could get the heat.

 

[Srinivas]

Since they view the GoI as the hostage taker, allowing a trial would be like letting the hostage taker rape the hostages.

They flip flopped their stance since the arrest of their marines , Fact is they have killed an innocent fishermen,whether they have killed in international waters or in Indian territory is to be known after trial.
Your post is biased and showing that you have no trust in Indian law so don't bother about this issue.

 

[janon]

Since they view the GoI as the hostage taker, allowing a trial would be like letting the hostage taker rape the hostages.

Without commenting on their view of India being hostage takers (ie, for the sake of argument if I don't dispute that), the next part of the reasoning does not follow logically. The "hostage takers" are only judging their actions, not punishing them directly. So it is not akin to raping the "hostages".

Also, hostage takers do not usually let their victims question and challenge the hostage takers' authority to do so. The courts allowed to let them argue their position that India did not have jurisdiction, and were behaving like "hostage takers". If they had won the argument, the supreme court would have ordered their release. So at this point, I cannot even see how they are justified in their view of India being akin to a hostage taker.

 

[errant]

They flip flopped their stance since the arrest of their marines , Fact is they have killed an innocent fishermen,whether they have killed in international waters or in Indian territory is to be known after trial.
Your post is biased and showing that you have no trust in Indian law so don't bother about this issue.

If the fishermen were killed in international waters, then it is outside the jurisdiction of India.
On the other hand the US makes and changes rules, international or otherwise, as it goes along its merry way, totally oblivious to international treaties and obligations. Perhaps India is taking its cue from the States.

India would do well not to follow the US.
India should not hold the Italian ambassador hostage and should downgrade the level of diplomatic relations to reflect their displeasure with Italy.

Do not behave like a banana republic.

 

[Bang Galore]

India should not hold the Italian ambassador hostage and should downgrade the level of diplomatic relations to reflect their displeasure with Italy.

That is the problem. The Italian ambassador was stupid enough to get involved with the Supreme Court. The SC operates independent of the GoI & if we go by past precedence, takes a very dim view of any act that might demean the court. That the ambassador did & was foolish enough to stay & be in the firing line of the SC.

 

[janon]

If the fishermen were killed in international waters, then it is outside the jurisdiction of India. On the other hand the US makes and changes rules, international or otherwise, as it goes along its merry way, totally oblivious to international treaties and obligations. Perhaps India is taking its cue from the States.

India would do well not to follow the US.
India should not hold the Italian ambassador hostage and should downgrade the level of diplomatic relations to reflect their displeasure with Italy.

Do not behave like a banana republic.

Whether or not it was within the jurisdiction of India was for both sides to argue and prove in court. Indian authorities claim that it happened well within India's contiguous zone. If that was false, the Italians could have easily proved it in court, and they would have been freed.

We won't be holding the ambassador hostage. If he fails to honor the written and signed affidavit he submitted to the supreme court, then he will be ARRESTED, which is not the same as a hostage taking. And later on even if we manage to capture the fugitives, it is not like the ambassador will be returned. He will have to be in prison regardless of the fate of the marines. So it is not a prisoner swap deal.

That the ambassador did & was foolish enough to stay & be in the firing line of the SC.

That is thee part that I don't understand. Why did the ambassador not leave when he had the chance, before the SC ordered measures to prevent him from going back? Or even better, why did he not leave India just before announcing that the marines wont return? Why did he stay on in India and create a possibility for him to be arrested?

 

[Developereo]

They flip flopped their stance since the arrest of their marines

As far as I know, their stance has been consistent: that the incident occurred in international waters and the marines should be tried in Italy, not India.

Without commenting on their view of India being hostage takers (ie, for the sake of argument if I don't dispute that), the next part of the reasoning does not follow logically. The "hostage takers" are only judging their actions, not punishing them directly. So it is not akin to raping the "hostages".

From their viewpoint, the trial itself is akin to rape because the hostages are being forced to undergo an ordeal which they shouldn't have to. And perhaps they view the legal process in this case as tainted by Indian public opinion.

It's an emotional issue, same as in India, so logic is not the driver here.

Whether or not it was within the jurisdiction of India was for both sides to argue and prove in court.

Chicken and egg. The whole debate is "which court"?

The Italians would argue that the Indian prosecutors should prove to an Italian court that the case should be moved to India.

 

[Markus]

The Italian ambassador gave in writing to the Supreme court that the marines will return.

Legally speaking, now he should be arrested for contempt of court. I don't know if diplomatic immunity can save him.

 

[fast]

That is the problem. The Italian ambassador was stupid enough to get involved with the Supreme Court. The SC operates independent of the GoI & if we go by past precedence, takes a very dim view of any act that might demean the court. That the ambassador did & was foolish enough to stay & be in the firing line of the SC.

Who care about your supreme court. If you disregard the diplomatic immunity and hold the Italian diplomat hostage, we NATO will nuke you back to stone age. There will be no supreme court in India.

 

[janon]

The Italian ambassador gave in writing to the Supreme court that the marines will return.

Legally speaking, now he should be arrested for contempt of court. I don't know if diplomatic immunity can save him.

Apparently not. Their own lawyer (who was representing the marines) has said that they should be arrested. The SC lawyers are building the case that he submitted to the jurisdiction of the court, and therefore is liable for prosecution. He gave up his immunity when he dealt with the Supreme court.

Who care about your supreme court. If you disregard the diplomatic immunity and hold the Italian diplomat hostage, we NATO will nuke you back to stone age. There will be no supreme court in India.

Ha ha ha! Currently it is YOUR country that is being bombed and missiled and rocketed everyday by USA.

Nope; NATO will do nothing, because Italy ain't that important. Its ambassador to India, even less so.