Naswar Corner

[p(-)0ENiX]

Khuda Hafiz everyone!

 

[Ticker]

Huh?

What does "theek a parhawa" mean?

As far as I am concerned; I won every argument I have ever been in even if my information was complete crap.

Kabhi kabhi jeetnay ke liye haarna bhi parrta hai.

Aur haar ke jeetna aur aagay barrhna - ismein koi buraii nahin ....

Ha ve a nice day.....

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

Huh?

What does "theek a parhawa" mean?

it mean " ok brother"

parhawa mean brother

 

[Armstrong]

Watch your mouth! It is you that is pulling crap out of your arse! I didn't mock you in my previous posts, & if you are not going to be respectful, I assure you I can be just as disrespectful. If you do not like having discussions with me, then avoid responding to my posts, it's as simple as that.

Apologies ! Had I knew you were that sensitive about my 'loose talk' I wouldn't have commented like that ! But I ain't gonna kiss you if that what it takes to make up for it !

I thought you took offense & so I apologized otherwise I don't see any reason to get your nickers in a twist over.

If no sense of unity or belonging exists on the basis of culture & heritage, it would be ignored by most individuals in an instant. Why would a person care for his heritage if his only identity is Islam or being a Muslim? Aren't there Pakistani pan-Islamists that are deluded in to believing that they at some point ruled Spain? Why do you think they are so deluded? It's because in their minds, the only identity they believe they have is Islam, thus; they believe it's acceptable to claim things that had nothing to do with them. If they had valued both heritage & religion, it would have been obvious to them that while they should take pride in their religion, it does not require claiming someone else's heritage & disregarding your own. You did not create your heritage, culture, or language. Heritage, bloodline, languages are created by God or nature, whatever you choose to believe in. There are man made languages like Esperanto, but I assure you that none of our languages happen to be artificial. In fact doesn't God say that He divided us in to groups, nations, & tribes, & that our different languages are a sign from Him? Are you saying that these divisions that He created were in fact created by us? Isn't that shirk?

Thats probably the biggest pile of...! Nevermind *Ahhh..phir ronna shuru ho jai ga*

*Prim & Proper Mode On*

Where, pray tell me, did I allude to an individual, lets call him 'A', being only identified in religious overtones & that all of it should come at the expense of his cultural & linguistic identities ? Pray tell me, where did I mention that we should claim someone else's heritage & disregard our own ?

Did God write the first known literary piece on Punjabi Prose, or the one on Kurdish Poetry ? Surely he was the author - nay the ghost writer, behind Firdowsei's Shahnameh ! No..then where did all of these things come from ? Answer - We made them ! We wrote them ! Punjabi wasn't inspired by God & neither was Hebrew, German or Surinamese. They are modes of communication that were born out of centuries of 'human interactions' ! And because anything 'artificial' is human, I see no reason why not to label it as such. Yes...we created the Punjabi Language & I don't shy away from that or would be apologetic for that ! And just as one feels a sense of affinity towards something you create whether it be a doodle that looks to you like a work of art or a piece Mississippi Mud Pie that literally tastes like mud, I feel a sense of affinity towards my language (and it doesn't taste like mud...Punjabi is beautiful). And while we're at it, even though I'm not a religious man, I feel compelled to point out that there are people at Raiwand's Annual Ijtima *Your textbook Pan-Islamic Molvis* who deliver whole sermons in Punjabi. That we by & large don't prance up & down the streets dressed up like Arabs or greeting all & sundry by uttering 'Ahlan Wasahlan' ! When those some people talk about owning up to the triumphs of Muslims whether it be the Kingdom of Andalusia or whether it be on the plains of Qadsiya do so simply because they feel a bond with them, a bond that transcends race, religion & culture. It doesn't make us Arabs because we don't see Tariq bin Zayad or Khalid bin Waleed as Arab Generals but as Muslims Generals ! Does that imply that they were all wearing 'shalwar kameezes' with polished 'peshawari chappals' & singing the National Anthem all the while looking up to the Pakistani Flag ? No...& only a fool would connect dots as such ! All it means is that whether they were Arabs, Iranians, Germans, Maoris, its a non-issue for us ! Its their exploits as Muslims & in the name Islam that matter. And besides where does one draw the line while we're at it ? We can claim 'Khalid bin Waleed' as Our Hero but not Sher Shah Suri ? Why...? Did Ibn Waleed have a matching pair of horns to him that Sher didn't ? And evens still why claim Ibn Waleed as one of your own ? Why not just stick to the Prophet (PBUH) & disregard all the rest ? Umar bin Khattab was an Arab after all...he sure as hell didn't speak Pashto or Sindhi just like 'Omar Mukhtar the Libyan Freedom Fighter' ! Why not exclude him from the list as well ? Heck why stick to the Prophet (PBUH) when we know for a fact that he wasn't from Lahore but rather from Mecca & to add insult to injury we ended up embracing his faith...an Arab faith ! Good Lord...how shameless could we be ?

You see..there is no end to that ! There is no cut-off...! If we can say that a Muslim became God's Last Prophet & spread his message & it was his companions, Muslims again, who spread the message then we sure as hell can say that in Haroon Al Rasheed we found a Good Muslim King & we're proud of him or that Omar Mukhtar was a Muslim who fought for the freedom of his people - the Muslims.

This doesn't...doesn't...doesn't...okay one for the road - DOESN'T imply that we can't see that Haroon Al Rasheed was an Arab, that Mukhtar was a Libyan Bedouin or that Abu Bakr bin Sideeq was an Arab....all it means is that those people could be Sudanese for all we care - they were Muslims & they were good...hence why their deeds are dear to us.


Furthermore, this doesn't....doooooooeeesn't mean that we stop being Punjabis or Pashtuns or Baloch or any of our existing ethnicities ! Or that suddenly because I respect, admire & identify strongly with Omar Mukhtar...my mother tongue automatically changes to Berber or Arabic or that I'd want it to ! Thats a non issue...it didn't arise...we're not even thinking along those line !

Didn't you misconstrue me when you failed to realize that I am not against religious nationalism except that it should exist alongside other forms of nationalism? By the way, I don't know if you remember it, but I recall you claiming in a post that wasn't directed at me that Kashmiris & Punjabis are "races" apart. That made it obvious that you had misconception regarding the 2 terms. In fact, take a look at your post below.

Do you actually believe that we invented identities around races? Some people in the west believe that race is a social construct, but they foolishly reject the differences that exist among them.

I wasn't even arguing along the lines for that is a non-issue ! We don't stop being Punjabis or Pashtuns or anything of the sort but the Aryan babble ain't gonna, for one, trickle down to the common man & for another, its still empirically unsubstantiated. So what 'other forms of nationalism' do I prescribe to ? We're only left with the 'ethno-linguistic' kind & that is a recipe for disaster ! For Nationalism inherently entails that a nation can only be formed if you exalt one aspect of it to such a position of reverence that people are willing to let go of their differences keeping that in mind, how do you propose we form a Pashtun Nation, a Punjabi Nation, a Sindhi Nation & still avoid the feuds, the inter-ethnic rivalries that would rip the country apart ? The answer that Pakistan came up with & I agree with is - You give them an overarching identity that lets them be Pashtuns & Punjabis but gives them something greater to find unity in - Islam ! We are One nation because despite the multitude of languages or blood lines that we may speak & have respectively - We're all Muslims ! How does that do away with our ethnic or linguistic identities ? Whence has a Punjabi stopped speaking the language or a Pashtun forgotten how Pashto sounded like ! So..those other forms of nationalism are a non-issue for us & a recipe for disaster because what is stopping a Lar Pashtun from saying 'Hey...what about the Bar Pashtun - Speaks the same language, has the same culture & even looks similar - Why shouldn't we be One Country instead ?' Or a Baloch from saying - 'Irani Sistan Balochistan has the same Baloch as we do...lets ditch Pakistan & lets go for that' ! Or a Punjabi to say - Yeah whatever happened in '47 sucked but we speak the same language, have the same culture...lets go for an Independent United Punjab ! We had a gift from God in the Urdu language - a more or less non-partisan lingua franca of Pakistan & we fought for our Independence under the banner of Islam transcending both Ethnicity & Linguistics & later Provincialism ! Why the hell do you want to make it more complicated when we have no need to 'reinvent' our identity ! Our failure lies in Governance not in Ideology.

I don't think you should be giving out personal information in a public forum at all. I don't care if you do or do not act like you have a rod up your arse. The rest of us do not act like that even though we are proud of our identities. Go & discuss your sexual fetishes with someone else.

Oh come on that was just mean !

Looks like the rod won't do it...what you need is a plunger !

Patriotism refers to love for one's country. As long as you want whatever is best for your country alone, you can easily be classified as a patriot. Nationalism isn't blind patriotism, there is nothing wrong with being nationalistic. The problem here is your misconception of the term nationalism. I am nationalistic, I don't view myself as being superior to anyone by race, language, etc. There are a variety of different forms of nationalism, & they don't necessarily involve feelings of racial supremacy. Don't you know that Pan-Islamism is essentially Islamic nationalism or what can be more generally described as religious nationalism? Does that mean that a pan-Islamist feels superior to followers of other faiths? Going by your logic, wouldn't religious nationalism also give rise to different conflicts & rivalries of their own? By the way, feelings of superiority exist in all human beings. For example; most people are attracted to women of their own races. The reason for that is simple, they believe that their women's attributes are superior to those of women from other races. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, & it can not be classified as racism. Nazi Germany despised the Jews for a variety of reasons, but they are not the subject of our discussion. In any case, nationalism is not equal to Nazism.

Nationalism is the exaltation of any one attribute of a people, whether it be race, color, language, culture of a common past, & to place it at such a high pedestal that it lets them transcend their infighting & strive for the 'Us' instead of the 'I'. And it does deal in parallels & rivalries for you can only measure up 'who you are' with reference to what 'the other' is or isn't ! An enemy or rather 'the Other' is always needed ! Do grab a copy of the Clash of Civilizations & explore the author's arguments on how throughout history man has sought 'the other' to define himself. Thats where patriotism differs.

And there comes the other side *or rather the previous* of the argument ! History or rather Science tells us that a couple of thousand years ago the people who used to inhabit these lands were neither Pashtuns nor Punjabis, they were something else. Our present day cultures & languages evolved from that into what they are. Heck even the human race itself evolved from the Neanderthal & later the Homo Erectus to what we find ourselves in today ! Even if one doesn't buy into that then one cannot be intellectually challenged enough to also discount that Human Life as we know it progressed from One Origin & it multiplied ! With the passage of time whole civilizations were born & with them their unique languages & cultures who were baked in the fiery pits of 'time'. There is nothing 'immaculate or divine' about them that one cannot ditch them for something else ! And yet there is every reason to feel nice about them, about knowing that your people have inhabited these lands for years & will for years. They have evolved with the passage of time as have their modes of communication & expression. This affinity or even pride is not 'Ethno-Linguistic Nationalism' for we recognize that all of this is 'artificial & we take pride in expressing that' & is in transition to something else. We don't take excessive pride in it & assert that such & such land belongs to the Pashtuns & the Pashtuns alone & that only their posterity may benefit from whatever boons that earth provides us. Or that Non-Punjabis should pack up & leave Punjab for their ancestral homelands or assimilate by learning Punjabi & not have the right to caste vote in Provincial Elections...the Kashmiris can do it from Muzafrabad or any number of polling stations located all over AJK ! Thats 'ethno-linguistic' nationalism - Humm jaisee koi nahin....yeh zameen hamarii hai...yeh shanakhat hamariii hai...either conform or foOk off ! Try listening to the rhetoric of either Jeay Sindh, Pukhtoonkhwa Mili Awami Party or the Baloch Nationalist & then tell what 'ethno-linguistic nationalism' is or isn't.



Patriotism is love for one's land, the people who inhabit that land & who they are !

Actually, most Pakistanis are not proud or even aware of their history, language, culture et cetera at all. They are ruining their national language, & I explained how they are doing that in a previous post of mine. I have been to Pakistan many times, & I really don't think ordinary Pakistanis give a crap about their language at all. They don't even try to speak their language eloquently, what could they possibly know about respect for it? Speaking English is synonymous for being educated for many Pakistanis. What do you think of people that falsely claim Semitic descent? Don't many Balochis claim they originate in Syria? Why do you think they do that? It is because they long for an identity they don't really have. If not that, they feel inferior to Arabs because Prophet Muhammad (may peace be upon him) was an Arab. By claiming Semitic descent, they are essentially trying to eradicate this inferiority complex. Didn't you claim that you believed in the possibility that Kashmiris were Hebrews? Don't you know why that theory was spread about at some point in time? It was done to establish some sense of connection with the Prophets even though genetic, linguistic, & cultural studies generally reject that theory.

You've got to be kidding me ! Pakistanis not taking pride in their language ? Have you ever stepped outside the 'Elite' ! Have you seen how much pride does a Sereiki speaker takes in the language & how much of a joy is it to listen to that language ? Do you know that almost all Pashtun wherever they lie in the social strata make it a point to teach their children Pashto ! I can't recall a single Punjabi Pashtun that I met in real life who didn't know their language albeit in varying degrees.

And besides if languages are intrinsically linked to people at what point in time does a person's inherent right to choose or refuse a language kick in ? Why this compulsion ? If a Pashtun born today can be conscious of the fact that his ancestors, perhaps a 1000 years ago, spoke Turkish, some other dialect of Pashto or a different language altogether then why can he not make this conscious decision to teach his posterity *say* Sereiki as many in Mianwali have ?

Those theories exist for one purpose or the other & yet none of them signal inferiority complex in the least ! Its just an 'origin myth' nothing more...do you honestly think that Pashtuns or Kashmiris want to pack up & leave for Israel or that they'd give a wooden nickle about being of semetic descent ? No...we don't & I being a Pakistani & an ethnic Kashmiri know & have talked to both Pashtuns & Kashmiris in that respect - Does it even have the remotest of significance ? No it doesn't except the fact that its used to explain away the 'theory of our possible origin'. Thats it...nothing more to it ! I bet not a single Pashtun feels a surge of pride in it or a sense of an inferiority complex thinking about 'Hey...not related to the Prophet...jeez that sucks'.

And Nationalism in that manner of speaking is indeed Fascistic hence why I used the term 'Islamo-Fascism' ! Humm jaisee koi nahin...the rest are just bidding their time till kingdom come.

Once again, nationalism doesn't mean having a superiority complex, neither does it involve thinking that "we are better than the other". People should stick out for their own, if they do not help or respect their own, why would they ever help or respect others? Those who do not care about their own aren't worthy of respect. Even foreigners won't respect you if you do not respect, love, & stick out for your own, & there is absolutely nothing racist about that. I actually like Arab nationalism, in fact; I like people who have pride & respect for themselves. However, I don't like Pakistanis that embarrass themselves in front of others by claiming stuff from the Islamic Golden Age that has nothing to do with them.

Neither had Mosa, BlackEagle or a whole bunch of other Arabs on this forum an iota's worth of contribution to the Golden Age of Islam. Why should they then have any claim to it ? Because of blood...are you kidding me ? What does blood hold to exalt it to such a level ? There is a reason why Iqbal lamented throughout the Jawad-e-Shikwa the dilapidated state of Muslims :

Thee to woh tumharii aabaai hii par tum kiya ho ? Haath par haath dharii muntazir-e-furda ho ?

Eng : Yes they (the Muslims who made the Golde Age Possible) were your ancestors but what are you ? Sitting idly doing nothing to replicate any of that !

You tell me which is better ? Blood or Action ? Sentience demands that we give up this bestial association of 'blood' in favor of the much more relevant - What the person stood for ? And you're damn right that there are Pakistanis who'd take pride in the exploits of Muslims from the Golden Age & they are justified for that is the ideal of what we could be that we should aspire to ! A Pakistani soldier freezing his buttt off in Siachen has more in common with Khalid Bin Waleed than an Arab Sheikh living off petro-dollars ever can ! Similarly an honest Arab activist has more claim to Muhammad Ali Jinnah than Zardari ever can. Its time to blur these blood lines & put to bed these created differences.

And sticking out for their own is exactly what it means to have an all encompassing definition of the 'own' ! Lets give the Humanistic State that the Prophet tried to create in Medina a chance once more & let us start at home first with Muslims. We've already achieved that here in Pakistan to a certain extent where by & large Pashtun, Punjabis & Kashmiris, though deeply in love with where they come from & what languages they speak, are willing to go the extra-mile for each other inspite of the differences in languages & cultures. What we want is more of Pakistan applied across the length & breadth of the Muslims world.

I have met a few Indians that think they are Vedic Aryans even though they don't resemble them at all. I found that hilarious. Anyway, Muslims are one nation from the religious perspective, but not the genetic one. Pakistani ethnic & linguistic groups have a hell of a lot in common, & many of those indigenous ethnicities share a degree of common heritage. That common heritage along with a combination of religion & culture can easily help Pakistanis create an identity that is far stronger than the one existing now.

We already have that ! Do you think the Pakistan Army just likes the tune of it when they go - Sindhi hum, Balochi hum, Punjabi hum, Pathan hum, iss parcham ki nicheii Pak fauj ki jawan hum...Pakistan...Pakistan tum par qurban hum ! And that is applicable across the length & breadth of Pakistan...why do you think so many of us over here are products of inter-ethnic marriages ? Or why do you think we get along so well with each other ? Because we're in love with our languages but not to the extent where we'd be taking sides on the basis of that *read Ethno-linguistic Nationalism*. The few quarters where this is happening is dying away in the face of modernity & ever closer interactions.

There will be no Islamic unity until Prophet Jesus returns, & even then I am sure that the Prophet would celebrate the diversity of the people he rules. A Pasthun & a Punjabi are a lot closer to each other than you think. There have been many studies on the Pakistani populace that signify links prevalent between all ethnicities in Pakistan. I had an excellent source that discussed the similarities between the Indo-Iranian & Vedic people. Unfortunately, I no longer have the link to that source, but I do remember a lot of what was stated in it. An Arab & a Malay are extremely different from you, but the Arab is closer to you in the sense that he or she scientifically belongs to the Caucasian race. I think you should try, & get other people to accept you as their own. Carry out this experiment by going up to the most religious Muslim Arabs, Africans, or Asians. I bet that they will never truly be able to accept you as their own. I myself would find it extremely difficult to consider let's say a Chinese Muslim as a brother or a sister. The difference in race & appearance would be a consistent reminder of the fact that we have absolutely nothing to do with each other.

Who said anything about not 'accepting or celebrating diversity'...either way if he does come *I'm not a religious scholar so I can't comment on the nuances of faith* I don't think he'd be that concerned about writing a Pashto-Urdu Bol Chal Travel Guide.

I don't care if an Arab's blood or my blood matches or not ! The only thing that matters is that if he or she is willing to go the extra mile for me & I for him/her...then we're one family ! Just like we do this here in Pakistan ! Whether a Pashtun comes from the same genepool as a Baloch is not something that either of them know or are led to believe & so if they can transcend it, whatever the truth maybe, then why can't an Arab & a Malay ? Its all in the head, Phoenix...its all in the head ! If you can rise above that...if I can rise above that...then so can the rest of them out there !

Is that possible today or tomorrow or even 10 years from today ? No...will it happen ? Eventually & so it is an ideal we can aspire too...! We've done it here in Pakistan...we'll do it once more on a macro-level too !

In short - Pan-Islamism i.e we're One family, doesn't equal that a Pashtun stops being a Pashtun or an Arab stops being an Arab & so on & so forth.

Lastly I apologize again if I offended you...I can't for the life of me think that you'd think I was abusing you or anything of the sort ! Haven't you read enough of my posts already to know that I throw around those things with such reckless abandonment...they are, as George Carlin once said, intensifiers & not offensive abuses ! But I do apologize again...

Especially for thanking your posts !

 

[friendly_troll96]

Huh?



As far as I am concerned; I won every argument I have ever been in even if my information was complete crap.

By restricting others from responding to you?

What does "theek a parhawa" mean?

It's okay bro.
---------------------
They say size doesn't matter...wrong...some people like everything huge... even their posts. I sense phoenix is typing the longest reply of his pdf life.
Anways, apun sonay laga hy. Goodnight, everybody.

No ladies up in here tonight
keep fighting, keep fighting
We got no refugees up in here
keep fighting, keep fighting

 

[RazPaK]

Omg guyz. There is a drama on hum channel and there is a chaudry in the drama named Raza. He's got style but aint as good looking as me.

Plz someone tell me the name of this drama.

 

[Redbull]

What the **** is going on here.

 

[friendly_troll96]

Omg guyz. There is a drama on hum channel and there is a chaudry in the drama named Raza. He's got style but aint as good looking as me.

Plz someone tell me the name of this drama.

its name is 'the rotten coconut'.

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

@ Armstrong

I am going to reply to your post later, it's getting late here.

 

[Armstrong]

@ Armstrong

I am going to reply to your post later, it's getting late here.

Late....baaat kartaa hai its 4:40 a.m here..

What the **** is going on here.

I had an orangutan give a smooch to Phoenix...hes upset over it !

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

I had an orangutan give a smooch to Phoenix...hes upset over it !

No, an orangutan did not give me a smooch. Do not joke with me or pretend everything is cool again, because you already know that that is not the case.

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

By restricting others from responding to you?

He has just resumed our argument. I don't care if it goes on for months now.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

You give them an overarching identity that lets them be Pashtuns & Punjabis but gives them something greater to find unity in - Islam ! We are One nation because despite the multitude of languages or blood lines that we may speak & have respectively - We're all Muslims ! How does that do away with our ethnic or linguistic identities ? Whence has a Punjabi stopped speaking the language or a Pashtun forgotten how Pashto sounded like ! So..those other forms of nationalism are a non-issue for us & a recipe for disaster because what is stopping a Lar Pashtun from saying 'Hey...what about the Bar Pashtun - Speaks the same language, has the same culture & even looks similar - Why shouldn't we be One Country instead ?' Or a Baloch from saying - 'Irani Sistan Balochistan has the same Baloch as we do...lets ditch Pakistan & lets go for that' ! Or a Punjabi to say - Yeah whatever happened in '47 sucked but we speak the same language, have the same culture...lets go for an Independent United Punjab ! We had a gift from God in the Urdu language - a more or less non-partisan lingua franca of Pakistan & we fought for our Independence under the banner of Islam transcending both Ethnicity & Linguistics & later Provincialism ! Why the hell do you want to make it more complicated when we have no need to 'reinvent' our identity ! Our failure lies in Governance not in Ideology.

You have good points there but if Islam should be the basis of unity then all Muslims should be one irrespective of their countries/nationalities/ethnicities then attachment with one specific land don't make sense as per Islamic concept of brotherhood which don't see Muslim as black, white, arab, non Arab, Pakistani, Indian. Unity of Islam is based on Aqeedah not land then there will be no difference between Indian Muslim and Pakistani Muslim or between Pakistani Muslim or Afghani/Irani Muslim because they have same religion

 

[Armstrong]

No, an orangutan did not give me a smooch. Do not joke with me or pretend everything is cool again, because you already know that that is not the case.

Right...I do take my apologies back ! Please continue.

 

[Redbull]

Late....baaat kartaa hai its 4:40 a.m here..



I had an orangutan give a smooch to Phoenix...hes upset over it !

i saw you guys were talking about ethnicities and I knew where this was going...That's why I've been avoiding discussion recently

Anyway, let's hope we can all unite under this.