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Armstrong said:
No what it means it that it gives you a higher 'ideal' to aim for i.e Unity in a common collective consciousness instead of invented identities that 'races' & 'ethnicities' are ! Which is not to say that you don't feel a sense of affinity towards the language you speak, the culture you practice or the ethnicity you belong to but the moment it starts having an overarching or overbearing imprint on your individual identities is where we need to pause & think - Yes its fascinating how the Punjabi culture & the language evolved over the years & yes its beautiful but at the end of the day it was created out of something else; the keyword being 'created' over here, which is to say - There is little point in walking with a puffed up chest thinking 'Woh..I'm a Punjabi....pataaa nahin mein kiyaa hiii cheeez hooon' !

And the 'higher ideal' part was to impress upon you that if, as Muslims, we believe that Islam is not a 'creation' or at the very least not 'our creation'; that it is infallible & yet we are not, that it has the right to be overbearing for it is the truth then why not having unity in something that guides every moment of every day of your life from the cradle to the grave !

Would that happen in my life time ? No...probably not because we can't transcend the Sunni-Shia BS, provincialism or even ethno-linguistic nationalism ! But it is for that exact hope that compelled Iqbal to say :

'Nazar-e-daireena zamaanee ko dikhaa dei - Aii Mustafavi khaaq mein isss buuutt ko milaa dei'

Eng : Show the old panorama (the Golden Age of Islam) to this Age - Oh follower's of Mustafa (Our Prophet) turn this new idol into dust.

And what is this idol - Ethno-linguistic Nationalism because 'nationalism' by its very definition chooses a thing whether it be race, language or a common history & exalts it to the extent that it overbears everything else ! Thats how you carve out a 'Nation' as per the concept of 'Nationalism'...elevate one thing above everything else till it becomes your most 'revered thing' ! Some have called it Shirk citing the inherent contradiction between that & the Islamic concept of what the most 'revered thing' ought to be ! Others like Pakistan have managed to, though dysfunctional but due to lousy governance & not ideology, bridge together Islamic Identity with a Pakistani identity !

Lets see what the future holds for us.

But I am a firm believer of unity through religion & a firm disbeliever in anything that remotely reeks of 'ethno-linguistic nationalism'.

'Inn tazaaa khudaaonn mein baraa sub seh watan hai - Jo perahan iss ka hai woh mazhab ka kafan hai'

Eng : Of these new idols the greatest is 'watan*' - Its garb is the death shroud of religious unity'

* Watan as in a watan on ethnic & linguistic lines instead of unity through religion.
Click to expand...

Ethnicities have evolved over time, but races are absolutely not an artificial social construct. Different human races have been created by God. Racial differences are easily apparent to the naked eye, & I am sure I don't need to elaborate on that. Ethnicities are a bit different from races, for example; Spanish & Greek are 2 different ethnicities, but both of these ethnicities are a part of the white race or the greater Caucasian race. Ethnic differences result from a variation in bloodline combined with culture & language. These along with a variety other factors lead to the formation of new ethnic groups. Think about the Turks of Turkey, do they really look Turkish? They don't really resemble Kazakhs or Uzbeks right? Many of them are probably mixed with Turkic tribes, whereas others are simply Turkified Anatolians, Greeks, Arabs, & other Indo-Europeans. That is what gave them the right to call themselves Turks. How about Gulf Arabs? They descend from Abraham, but Abraham was Babylonian. The Babylonians in turn descend from ancient Semitic tribes.

Is there a chance that a new ethnic group would emerge from modern day Arabs. I don't think so, while the Arab ethnic group would continue to evolve, it's unlikely that another ethnicity would be born from them. That's because wars & conquests that resulted in ethnic cleansing or conversion are frowned upon today. The Punjabi culture & language arose out of Vedic culture & Sanskrit which in turn arose from ancient Indo-European tribes that descend from the Proto-Indo-Europeans & just so happened to speak the Proto-Indo-European language. Those people descend from Japheth; the son of Noah from the religious perspective & so on. The point is that if you keep going back far enough, then we are all the descendants of Adam. Why don't you promote unity among all humans? Seeing as all of us are related according to Islam, & God himself refers to mankind as one nation, why not promote international unity? Why divide ourselves on the basis of religion if we are one & the same? Of course, the answer for that is mentioned in the Quran as well. Muslims are one nation spiritually, I have never disagreed with that, but they are absolutely not one nation genetically.

You seem to think that nationalism leads to racism & feelings of superiority. There is absolutely no truth to that. I am nationalistic, but you won't find me mistreating people of other races. Arabs are nationalistic & while some of them might be racist as is the case with every community, I assure you that that does not hold true for all of them. By the way, I am Kashmiri by ethnicity, not Punjabi, & I do not walk around boasting about my heritage. Islam does not require an individual to neglect his or her race, language, culture or heritage. In fact the Quran describes the variation of mankind's languages & color as a sign from God that is to be cherished. Unity according to Islam involves Muslims helping each other & protecting fellow Muslims that are wronged simply because of their religion. That means that we must not despise a non-Muslim state that fights a Muslim majority nation provided they aren't going to war for the sake of religion. In fact according to Islam, Muslims must defend all people that have been wronged in any way whatsoever.

While, I have respect for Allama Iqbal; I disagree with his verses & I see them as being nothing more than his point of view. He is entitled to his views & opinions, just as you are to your own. I could reverse those verses & make religious unity seem evil, but I am not going to because I don't despise religious nationalism at all provided that it's integrated with other forms of nationalism. Do you follow Islam correctly? Do you pray 5 times a day, fast in the month of Ramadan, give Zakah & Sadaqah while abiding by other Islamic laws? If a person does not follow the 5 pillars of Islam, then in my opinion; he or she has no right to promote Muslim unity. Does that person expect us to unite under a God he or she disobeys or unite under a religion he or she barely follows? I am not pointing my fingers at you, but I had to put that out there because many Pan-Islamists advocate Muslim unity for some supposed political benefits against other nations instead of spiritual benefits or those benefits that lead to scientific advancements or developments. Many of them hardly follow Islam, & I am sure you & others will agree that they are lousy hypocrites.

Ethnic & racial differences were celebrated under the Islamic state seeing as God requires them to be celebrated. Why do you think ancient ethnicities that lived under the golden age of Islam are still around today? It's because the Islamic state provided all races with an environment to flourish & managed to preserve them at the same time. The Islamic state never promoted forced cultural integration or pretty much everyone would have been an Arabized Arab or Turkified Turk today. I am sure I don't need to provide you with examples, but Arabs, Kurds, Persians, Turks, Spaniards, Berbers, et cetera are different ethnic groups that flourished in that era. Avicenna; the prince of Medicine is proof that Persians prospered during that era, & were provided with an environment for doing so. Their language & culture was preserved, while continuing to evolve as usual as an identity always does. The Islamic state during the golden age valued diversity & never sought to destroy it. If we were to literally ignore our heritage, it would end up being eradicated, & most pan-Islamists that I have personally met don't seem to care about that at all. Not everything was great under the Caliphate either. There were eras in which the Arab Caliphs would favor Arab Muslims over non-Arab Muslims. It led to many people modifying their family trees for the sake of including some mythical Arab ancestor to improve their social standing in society.

Let's not forget that the Arab Islamic golden age would never have been achieved if it were not for the previous Greco-Roman civilizations. I also despise Pakistanis that claim the achievements of Arab Muslims as their own. I am certain you & others have met such people too. It's embarrassing to watch them make a fool out of themselves in front of Arabs. Shia & Sunni rivalry is more of a guise for Arab & Iranian rivalry in the Middle East at least. It continues to exist because of Iran's interference in Arab affairs. You may not agree with that, but that is a subject for another discussion. There are some people that desire the formation of a new Caliphate simply because they have been deluded in to believing that such an event would magically solve all of their troubles. They neglect how difficult it would be integrate & unite such a diverse group of people. Multiculturalism in the western world is slowly proving itself to be a complete failure due to the difficulties involved in integrating even Christians of different races. You could argue that Christians do not really care much about their beliefs even though the Bible does make a case for religious unity that is somewhat similar to Islam.

Nationalism is not shirk. Shirk is the act of associating partners with God, & I don't recall nationalistic people worshiping their race or language, neither do they ever exalt it to the status of divinity. A good example of shirk is the act of visiting shrines & praying next to a so-called noble person because of a stupid belief that God is more likely to listen to prayers if they are prayed next to someone noble. That is complete BS, God is influenced by no one. He does whatever He wills & no dead body has ever had or will ever have an influence over His decisions. Don't some people visit shrines in Pakistan? That might be why the Islamic state seems to be under the curse of The Creator.

You could try an experiment for yourself, travel to other Muslim nations & try assimilating with them. I assure you that while some might tolerate or respect you, they will never truly consider you as one of their own, especially is you are too racially different. That is a fact, & it is obviously quite understandable. A lot of the trouble around the world occurs due to ethnic & racial tensions, that's because people can't tolerate seeing their own get humiliated. If a foreign Muslim was to harass a Pakistani Muslim in front of you, I can pretty much bet that you would be annoyed by the fact that one of your own had gotten harassed. Moving on to Pan-Islamism, it itself happens to be nationalism, so I am assuming you don't really hate nationalism, but only a certain kind of nationalism which just so happens to be the ethno-linguistic one. Provincial nationalism in Pakistan happens to be complete BS, & most of its advocates neglect the fact that all Pakistani ethnicities share somewhat similar origins excluding some minorities like the Muhajirs. The Indic races towards the east evolve from Vedic tribes, & there does seem to be some Dravidian mixture towards the south. The western ethnicities evolve from Indo-Iranians, & they share common descent with Vedic people including sister languages. Detailed discussions regarding the Vedic & Indo-Iranian people or their origins would take up too much of my time, so I am going to leave it at that.

Another problem with your post is the false assumption that I advocate a blatant disregard for religion. I don't want Pakistani society to ignore religion, unless of course you happen to desire a morally bankrupt society like a couple of nations in western Europe. Although, some people may argue that Pakistanis are morally bankrupt anyway, & there isn't much I can do to counter those claims seeing the state our country is currently in. The nationalism I am fond of values race, culture, language, & religion at the same time. An existing form of that is Arab nationalism. Gulf Arab states always help the Pakistani government if they are able to, & so do the people in spite of the fact that they believe in the ideology of Arab nationalism & to some extent Arab unity. Do you know why they continue to help corrupt nations like Pakistan? The answer is simple; religion. So even though they help out their religious brothers, they do not neglect their racial, cultural, or linguistic heritage. In my opinion, a similar form of nationalism would be great for Pakistan. By doing so Pakistanis can continue to honor their roots while abiding by certain religious principles & forming an identity capable of accepting newcomers while cherishing the people it already has.
 
ANTIBODY said:
TO SURB
the basic medical teachings are low quality --- not that we wernt taught the right books but the teachers concentrate less on practical correlations/applications rather more on theoratical info --- i wasnt able to take all the usmle exams cuz of family duties.. but still plan on taking them if i remain steadfast on this field--- i've read the usmle step1 course at least 8 times by now during my fcps training and feel that this was never taught to me in my med school
Click to expand...

Hi brother! i couldn't send you the PM so WebMaster helped me in this regard.I know like others you are a busy person,and it happens and i've received all of your messages in return.

Being a doctor i'm not enjoying all this what's happening around.Events since the last two years has opened up my eyes.And the battle in me...."Patriotism vs better future" that almost every doctor faces in our conditions has reached to it's logical end.I know i was thinking on the wrong lines there is never a patriotism vs big opportunities. I've worked with the armed forces and also in the government sector a bit as well.But i eventually came to the conclusion that it's not right to crush the opportunities when you can grab those.

I myself am having family issues(not that serious probably),but the advantage i've with me is time.Many of my seniors advised me to "Just leave for a better future where there is much to gain....and don't lose it out here."
Meanwhile people around gave me the friendly advice to change my profession after that Punjab incidents.
Well i'm right now not in practice( a personal decision),because i know that i can manage it very well.But everyone is not like me,my colleagues and friends have to pass through that dark tunnel and face all the hostile environment.So there the question arises that is medical profession in Pakistan is only for the well-off?

I agree with your conclusion that the system from which we have passed in ,isn't meant to make us stand where we should be standing right now.Also the government here is not providing the opportunities.To hell with them, they don't even care about treatment facilities they should be providing to this nation.Words like heath care system are not found in their dictionary.

But that doesn't mean that one must stop striving for excellence.Does it?
We are the son of this motherland.Our perfection & success will help her out in many ways.
(I cite your example,you found yourself lacking in a certain ability,the training wasn't meant to make you reach such a standard but you strived for it and achieved that with your effort.That's the thirst for excellence, i've mentioned.)

Regarding the change of profession,it's your personal choice.
1-Sometimes we want to breathe in some fresh air and try out something new.Boredom is killing.So, my question to you is that surgery so boring?
I opted that just because medicine will be boring and the monotony will kill me.Reading your posts seems the other way around.

2-This life long study is eating you up and you wanna put a full stop now.It's the professional "Harakiri".

My view on it will be you do not have to leave it for ever.Take a time off.Try different venue.Enjoy something else and have fun.I will say have tour to Russia.Fly one of their Migs, after all your knowledge about flying machines should come in handy someday.Why not now when you wanna change.

Meanwhile saying that, what's that one thing in your job that if you could change it, would've been better?
 
S.U.R.B. said:
Hi brother! i couldn't send you the PM so WebMaster helped me in this regard.I know like others you are a busy person,and it happens and i've received all of your messages in return.

Being a doctor i'm not enjoying all this what's happening around.Events since the last two years has opened up my eyes.And the battle in me...."Patriotism vs better future" that almost every doctor faces in our conditions has reached to it's logical end.I know i was thinking on the wrong lines there is never a patriotism vs big opportunities. I've worked with the armed forces and also in the government sector a bit as well.But i eventually came to the conclusion that it's not right to crush the opportunities when you can grab those.

I myself am having family issues(not that serious probably),but the advantage i've with me is time.Many of my seniors advised me to "Just leave for a better future where there is much to gain....and don't lose it out here."
Meanwhile people around gave me the friendly advice to change my profession after that Punjab incidents.
Well i'm right now not in practice( a personal decision),because i know that i can manage it very well.But everyone is not like me,my colleagues and friends have to pass through that dark tunnel and face all the hostile environment.So there the question arises that is medical profession in Pakistan is only for the well-off?

I agree with your conclusion that the system from which we have passed in ,isn't meant to make us stand where we should be standing right now.Also the government here is not providing the opportunities.To hell with them, they don't even care about treatment facilities they should be providing to this nation.Words like heath care system are not found in their dictionary.

But that doesn't mean that one must stop striving for excellence.Does it?
We are the son of this motherland.Our perfection & success will help her out in many ways.
(I cite your example,you found yourself lacking in a certain ability,the training wasn't meant to make you reach such a standard but you strived for it and achieved that with your effort.That's the thirst for excellence, i've mentioned.)

Regarding the change of profession,it's your personal choice.
1-Sometimes we want to breathe in some fresh air and try out something new.Boredom is killing.So, my question to you is that surgery so boring?
I opted that just because medicine will be boring and the monotony will kill me.Reading your posts seems the other way around.

2-This life long study is eating you up and you wanna put a full stop now.It's the professional "Harakiri".

My view on it will be you do not have to leave it for ever.Take a time off.Try different venue.Enjoy something else and have fun.I will say have tour to Russia.Fly one of their Mig, after all your knowledge after flying machine should come handy someday.Why not now when you wanna change.

Meanwhile saying that, what's that one thing in your job that if you could change it, would've been better?
Click to expand...
Biology sucks like a baytch. You'd better ditch the baytch and become an engineer or a businessman like other wise men.
The branch manager at Nokia customer care center in Rawalpindi is an MBBS doctor by qualification. He's enjoying his job and is getting paid handsomely. :lol:
 
same here..... main aisy posts ko daikh k door bhagta hon ...
yar banda school main itna parh leta to aaj doctor hota. :undecided:

Note : mera name laeeq hai ........ bohot purani id aur user name hai is liye change nahi karta
 
friendly_troll96 said:
Biology sucks like a baytch. You'd better ditch the baytch and become an engineer or a businessman like other wise men.
The branch manager at Nokia customer care center in Rawalpindi is an MBBS doctor by qualification. He's enjoying his job and is getting paid handsomely. :lol:
Click to expand...


:D I miss your posts dear.I miss them a lot.You are our expert in Sexology.The fluid dynamics of love is an interesting field.

People who chose to be in this doctor whacktor profession,can do most of the things with some ease.It's not new.


KRAIT said:
@S.U.R.B
Nice post buddy. And good suggestion.
Click to expand...

Sharing something of interest.ATLS is the advanced trauma life support.If you read the history
ATLS has its origins in the United States in 1976, when James K. Styner, an orthopedic surgeon piloting a light aircraft, crashed his plane into a field in Nebraska. His wife Charlene was killed instantly and three of his four children, Richard, Randy, and Kim sustained critical injuries. His son Chris suffered a broken arm. He carried out the initial triage of his children at the crash site. Dr. Styner had to flag down a car to transport him to the nearest hospital; upon arrival, he found it closed. Even once the hospital was opened and a doctor called in, he found that the emergency care provided at the small regional hospital where they were treated was inadequate and inappropriate.

Upon returning to Lincoln, Dr. Styner declared: "When I can provide better care in the field with limited resources than what my children and I received at the primary care facility, there is something wrong with the system and the system has to be changed.”

He set about developing a system for saving lives in medical trauma situations. Styner and his colleague Paul 'Skip' Collicott, with assistance from advanced cardiac life support personnel and the Lincoln Medical Education Foundation, produced the initial ATLS course which was held in 1978. In 1980, the American College of Surgeons Committee on Trauma adopted ATLS and began US and international dissemination of the course. Styner himself recently recertified as an ATLS instructor, teaching his Instructor Candidate course in the UK and then in the Netherlands.


He(antibody) has interest in research ,may be practicing and doing the clinic is not that attractive after this much of effort.Long surgeries that the plastic surgeons usually do,is a test of ones own plasticity of stamina that's why most of us do gym and waste our energies and make us naturally strong so that our body can endure it.
Also may be the doctors affiliated with the Air force are too much busy in caring about the nausea and the diarrhea and missing certain things.

And i wish him the very best.I know there will be no space for a mistake when he'll be flying because everything will be text book.He'll be testing the knowledge of RIO and the RIO/WSO sitting with him , who will be having a reference book in his hands to see if there is something he missed during his training.

@Anitbody... we can plan on getting an extensive training course of Paragliding(Available at IBD &Karachi),snorkling etc together. That's a month long training program and exhausts most of the boredom out of you.
But the Migs, not untill i've gone through what you have already faced.:P
I'll reply in after knowing your real intentions though.:D
 
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