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Myths about Urdu

Yep even there was some agitation in Tamil Nadu against making Hindi as our national language..Love for their mother tongue is strong in Karnataka and Andhra Pradesh and extreme in Tamil Nadu..As for Kerala most of the parents love to see their children talk in English rather than their mother tongue or Hindi..There are some initiatives from prominent people and newspaper to save Malayalam but was not a success

I am confused why they are having problem with Hindi in Tamil Nadu??

As many people i have met in Tamil Nadu they avoided speaking Hindi even if they know how to speak.

If its only love for their mother tongue then why they prefer English over hindi in Tamil Nadu.

I was realy surprised that even the Rakshaw wala was trying to make me understand how much fare he will charge me for the particular area, means he was speaking english though not well but he was trying but he was not willing neither undertanding a word of Hindi.


I am just eager to know what is their issue with Hindi/Urdu?????
 
I know that what languages are spoken where.

I again will repeat that with South India refusing to accept any other language other than their own would it had been feasible to have Urdu/Hindi as a common language as was thought by Nehru and Azad??

Nope, not just south India, but most of India would be against such an idea of forcing any one language. If Nehru had wanted it, then he was mistaken. But Nehru was all for multiculture, why would he have such bizzare wish?

Anyway, the strength of India is its multi-cultures. There is an assurance to all cultures, that they can be followed and promoted without any hindrance. This is the key to India's success.
 
Nope, not just south India, but most of India would be against such an idea of forcing any one language. If Nehru had wanted it, then he was mistaken. But Nehru was all for multiculture, why would he have such bizzare wish?
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I dont know why he wanted that but thats what eastwatch had posted from the history, so i was surprised how come that be possible in case of India
 
I dont know why he wanted that but thats what eastwatch had posted from the history, so i was surprised how come that be possible in case of India

Yep, its not possible in India. India is multilinguistic nation, with each language having its proud speakers. But Hindi is fairly understood in India. So, for an outsider knowing Hindi could be the first step.
 
I dont know why he wanted that but thats what eastwatch had posted from the history, so i was surprised how come that be possible in case of India

Nehru wanted to unite India under a common language..and Majority of the people speak Hindi at that time and so he choose Hindi as our national language.There was a part in social science in our about the importance of common language for the progress of the nation citing the example of Japan and USSR ..saying that these countries become mostly advance in industries and Technology due to the help of common language and if we have different languages its difficult to understand the ideas of one person for another one ..
 
EjazR:

PICK up any Urdu textbook and the chances are that it will endorse the following myths: (a) the term ‘Urdu’ means military camp. Our language is called ‘Urdu’ because it was created in the army camps of the Mughals especially during the reign of Shah Jahan; (b) Urdu is a mixed language (khitchri zubaan); (c) Urdu is a Muslim language.

Now let us deal with these myths one by one.

All the histories in Persian about medieval India use the Turkish word ‘Urdu’ (which means ‘camp’ in original Turkish) for ‘city’. The word is not used in the original Turkish meaning in Indian sources in Persian for the most part. Sometimes the terms ‘Urdu-i-mualla’and ‘Urdu-i-badshahi’ are also used. During Shah Jahan’s time, Urdu-i-mualla referred to the language spoken in the city of Shahjahanabad (Delhi).


How can one even argue about comparing the Devanagari script to the Nastaliq one? Farsi, Arabic words are written from right to left, the way Urdu is. The spellings for Arabic-Farsi derived words such as “khaas, zabaan, dimagh, baaqi, phir, pareshaan” is the same in the Nastaliq script. Urdu is written in exactly the same alphabets as Persian and Arabic (Urdu has the extra alphabets found in Persian but not in Arabic, and Urdu has the extra alphabets found in Arabic but not in Persian), Hindi is not written in the same alphabet. I think you are underestimating the importance of the alphabet in the general Muslim culture. These are the alphabets used for writing the Quran, the alphabet itself has a significant importance deeply uprooted in Muslim past history and culture. That is why when the Muslims were ruling India, Urdu went in excellent development but Hindi did not. Once the British took over the Mughal rule, the Hindus saw this as a great opportunity to promote the Sanskritized Devanagari script (because the Sanskritized Devanagari is their sacred script for their Holy Hindu mythologies). Unfortunately, because of the deep Muslim culture rooted in India because of Muslim rule, the spoken and the written language for poetry that had mostly Arabic/Persian derived words, was translated into the Devanagari script. This resulted in the Hindi-Urdu controversy. The Hindus tried to make the Devanagari more prominent, when initially it was only confined to the Hindu mythologies.

So, why should the Sanskrit Devanagari script (written from the left to right) even claim that these words are a part of Hindi, when they are not written or pronounced (the Hindi Devanagari addition of the dots came much later) the same way an Arabic or a Persian person does? There seems to be something fundamentally wrong with this argument.

The ‘common Hindi’ (not Shudh Hindi) that you talk about contains a majority of Persian/Arabic derived words, and very few Sanskrit-derived words. So if Hindi is trying to claim that these Persian/Arabic derived words are theirs, they have to write them the same way or pronounced the same way as an Arabic/Persian person does. They do not.

This is where the contradiction arises in India: even though the common Hindi speak is influenced by words from Persian/Arabic Muslim culture, because of India’s dominant Hindu culture, India tried to make the Sanskrit Devanagari script of more importance as compared to the Nastaliq script, even though the Nastaliq script is deeply rooted into the Muslim culture of not only the Indian subcontinent, but also of the whole Middle East, Africa, Afghanistan, Iran: where ever Arabic and Persian is spoken. Sanskritized Devanagari is only deeply rooted in the Hinduism religious texts, but it has nothing to do with the Arabic/Persian derived words.

When you start writing the Quran, or deep Persian, Arabic, Urdu poetry into Sanskritized Devanagari script and claim all of those to be SOLELY YOURS, you forget the historical, cultural, linguistic ties that poetry/Quran had with the Persian/Arabic/Islamic culture of its time. It’s almost like when you translate Holy Scriptures of a religious book into a completely different language and script.

The problem arose when they tried to “translate” the works these prominent Urdu poets such as Ghalib, Amir Khusro, Mir Taqi Mir, Bulle Shah etc written in Nastaliq script to the Sanskritized Devanagari script. As you know the limitations of the Sanskritized Devanagari script, the Urdu-lovers of India protested that the Urdu works were getting butchered by the Sanskritized Devanagari script, which is why the Hindi-Urdu controversy took place. This is also the reason why you see most Indians today speak Hindi from the Sanskritized Devanagari script, and butchering the beautiful lanaguage. The Hindi Devanagari script (made by adding dots to certain alphabets of the Sanskritized Devanagari script) was nothing but an artificial creation, predominantly for the Urdu lovers in the state of UP. Unfortunately, even know the Hindi Devanagari script “is more gramatically correct” than the Sanskritized Devanagari script, because of the love of Indians for Hinduism, as well as the development of the Hindi Devanagari script was only a recent phenomena, most Indians still speak words using the Sanskritized Devanagari script. Even Hindus in Delhi, which has a huge Muslim population, say J-or for zor, F-ir for phir, pare-S-aan for pareshaan etc. The words people from Delhi use are mostly Arabic/Persian derived words, but they still pronounce them from the Sanskritized Devanagari script. This is what one calls the butchering of a beautiful language.

The elderly Indian Muslim relatives I have in Bihar constantly feel their heritage and culture is in danger in India. That is why Urdu (because of its Nastaliq script) is considered a Muslim language in India, while Hindi (Devanagari script) is considered a language for all Indians. However, other states like Tamil Nadu have fought the Indian government, and refused to make it part of the mandatory state curriculum.
 
Couldn't care less whose language it is. It's not going to make the slightest difference to my life.
 
looks your history is pretty much weak. :rofl:

No actually, your history is pretty weak my friend. There was no one nation known as India before 1947. Each state was ruled by its separate ruler, and the states had nothing to do with each other. Punjab was for the Punjabis, Kashmir was for Kashmiris, Bengal was for Bengalis, Maharashtra was for Maharashtrans etc. The Indian subcontinent was almost like a continent such as Europe before 1947. There was no one nation India or Pakistan before 1947. But it is the sheer ignorance and hate from Indians that think their country's history is thousands of years ago, while Pakistan's history is only 63 years old. In fact, Pakistan is 1 day older than India. PWNED!

:pakistan:
 
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Well factually speaking the Urdu language was developed mainly in what is now India. It may be the national language in Pakistan but Urdu language was developed by residents in Delhi, UP-Bihar region and Hyderabad which are all regions in present day India and have always been muslim minority areas rather than the muslim majority areas in present day Pakistan or Bangladesh. This shows that this language was a syncretic language developed over 100 of years as the writer explains. Other than the Mohajirs in Pakistan, for none of the ethinc groups in Pakistan is it a "mother tongue".

If we look out of the box, there are decisions taken even during hte founding of Pakistan that shows that culturally the sub continent is inextricably linked. Urdu was the mother tongue of the mohajirs but has become the national language of Pakistan. In a way, even those Pakistanis who did not speak Urdu before like the Balochis and Pathans in NWFP now would learn it and hence be able to communicate in Hindi/Urdu across the border. Moreover Punjabi is also a recognised language in India and the border regions of India and Pakistan share a common Punjabi language and culture as well. Same for the Sindhi langauge and culture.

Punjabi, Sindhi Urdu/Hindu(Hindustani) all are languages that have the potential to unite people rather than divide if used in the right way.

Thats not true. Most Pakistanis can speak Urdu irrespective of ethnic group. You have to know atleast a little Urdu in Pakistan if you want a decent job and career in Pakistan, the same is not the case in india. Thats why Urdu is the national language of Pakistan and not india. Most indians can not even speak Urdu properly let alone read it.


And since when did Sindh become part of india. All of Sindh is in Pakistan, it wasn't partitioned like Punjab was. The only sindhis you have are the hindu sindhis who migrated to india during partition and they dont even make 1% of india's population. Punjabis are only 3% of india's population, while Punjabis make more than 45% of Pakistan's population.
 
EjazR:

Well factually speaking the Urdu language was developed mainly in what is now India. It may be the national language in Pakistan but Urdu language was developed by residents in Delhi, UP-Bihar region and Hyderabad which are all regions in present day India and have always been muslim minority areas rather than the muslim majority areas in present day Pakistan or Bangladesh.

I think you are forgetting the historic role Lahore played in the development of Urdu alongside Delhi and Lucknow. Last time I checked, Lahore was part of Pakistan, not India. In fact, Lahore is considered the birthplace by some historians and NOT Delhi or Lucknow, as the Muslim invaders stepped into Lahore first and then went to their Sultanates in Delhi. Even after that, Lahore was a significant city that played a huge role in the development of Urdu alongside the Indian cities of Delhi and Lucknow.

So claiming Urdu as an Indian language solely is wrong, and I would advise you to correct your misunderstandings on the subject. Urdu is equally Pakistan's as well. Even if Urdu was born in Delhi, it would not be solely an Indian language. That would almost be like saying Sikhism is a Pakistani religion, because the father of Sikhism was born in the region in present day Pakistan. So your argument is moot anyways.
 
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indians don't speak Urdu and neither can they as they can't pronounce the letters properly let alone the words! All Pakistanis irrespective of their ethnicity speak and understand Urdu due to the Persian Alphabet, however Pakistanis don't speak hindi!

EDIT: How did Urdu originate from india when 70% of Urdu uses Farsi and Arabic vocabulary?

Urdu wouldn't be in its present form if it didn't have 70% of Arabic and Farsi in it!
 
indians don't speak Urdu and neither can they as they can't pronounce the letters properly let alone the words! All Pakistanis irrespective of their ethnicity speak and understand Urdu due to the Persian Alphabet, however Pakistanis don't speak hindi!

EDIT: How did Urdu originate from india when 70% of Urdu uses Farsi and Arabic vocabulary?

Urdu wouldn't be in its present form if it didn't have 70% of Arabic and Farsi in it!

indians speak the low-class, vile-sounding version of Urdu. They speak Urdu with their dravdian accents. :sick::sick::sick::confused::confused::confused:
 
Indians confuse the histories of Hindi and Urdu. Let’s call the language that developed during Muslim rule over the Indian subcontinent “X”, not Hindi or Urdu.

Look at it from the script. Urdu is defined by its Nastaliq script, Hindi is defined by its original Sanskritized Devanagari script. The Nastaliq script for “X” is older than the Sanskritized/Hindi Devanagari script for “X” (not talking about the Sanskrit language). The reason why the Hindi-Urdu controversy took place in 1867 was because literary work in Nastaliq was being converted into Sankskritized Devanagari. Even till 1947, Nastaliq was more popular than Devanagari. Also, “X” had more Persian-Arabic derived & few Sanskrit derived words in it than present day Shudh Hindi does, & it was pretty much like present day Urdu (read Ghalib's poetry for example, a Hindi speaker can't understand it). That means that Urdu is older than Hindi by default.

While Sanskrit language written in the Sankrit Devanagari script for Holy Scriptures is older than both Urdu & Hindi, Urdu is older than Hindi. Hindi is an artificial language, an innovation. I’ve provided enough proof that Indians are wrong with their lies.
 
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indians speak the low-class, vile-sounding version of Urdu. They speak Urdu with their dravdian accents. :sick::sick::sick::confused::confused::confused:

Exactly!! That's not Urdu but some other language that can't be called Urdu!!!

Urdu is a beautiful language but when your saying that the language that indians speak is Urdu then your basically insulting the beautiful Urdu language.

the indian version of Urdu is a BudThameez Zubaan! You can't call that Urdu :no:
 
Urdu (Urdu: اردو, IPA: [ˈʊrduː] ( listen)) is a register of the Hindustani language identified with Muslims. It is the national language and one of the two official languages of Pakistan (the other being English), and one of 22 scheduled languages of India, as an official language of five Indian states. Based on the Hindi dialect of Delhi, its vocabulary developed under Persian, Arabic and Turkic influence over the course of almost 900 years.[4] Urdu was mainly developed in Uttar Pradesh in the Indian Subcontinent, but began taking shape during the Delhi Sultanate as well as Mughal Empire (1526–1858) in South Asia. It is the means of communication between the people from various provinces and regions of Pakistan.[5] Urdu is mutually intelligible with the younger register of Hindustani, which is called simply "Hindi".

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