Mustefa Kemal Ataturk: The greatest Muslim general of the 20th centuary?

[islamrules]

@FaujHistorian
mashallah , u don't need to kill n destroy n ban islam from the public life to be classified as a kaffir, Attaturk needed only to leave prayer to be a kaffir n he did left it, he didn't need Al Qaeda to blame his "war on islam" on her, he was confident in his kuffr n straight to the point (my signature).
beware the prophet saw said يحشر المرء مع من يحب , one winds up with whom he loves .

 

[FaujHistorian]

@FaujHistorian
mashallah , u don't need to kill n destroy n ban islam from the public life to be classified as a kaffir, Attaturk needed only to leave prayer to be a kaffir n he did left it, he didn't need Al Qaeda to blame his "war on islam" on her, he was confident in his kuffr n straight to the point (my signature).
beware the prophet saw said يحشر المرء مع من يحب , one winds up with whom he loves .

supporters of suicide bombing and TTP are calling other Muslims as Kafirs.

So what's new in the lala land of Islamists.

 

[Kompromat]

@FaujHistorian | Are you going to answer my query sir?

@islamrules | Engage in a civil debate and STOP throwing the Kaffir wafir tag on our members or others, or i will remove you from this thread.

Best Regards.

 

[usernameless]

Thanks to Ataturk we have a country to live in. forget about religion or political views for a second, because if it wasn’t for him, we wouldn’t have a place to live in the first place since the Greeks, Armenians, Italians, French etc. would get a huge chunk of modern Turkey’s ground, kill us, assimilate us and most probably invade the last remaining part of Turkey (due the treaty of Sevres signed by the sultan) and colonize us anyway. So, please put aside all the grudges against him, and I admit there are some politics of Ataturk that I can’t appreciate at all, and accept that without him there would most probably no Turkish nation or Turkish people left in what we call now Turkey. This alone makes Ataturk a very important person for us.

As for the period after Ataturk, well, that is up to each one’s opinion. In my opinion Turkey has failed to make great leaps forward in the decades after Ataturk. It’s only since the last decade or 2 since things seriously started to roll for Turkey, resulting in Turkey expressing her voice more and pursue her own interest more aggressively. Many people thank AKP (Erdogan) for this, especially foreign fellow Muslims, so I can understand them as well. I just think that foreign fellow Muslims sometimes overlook the importance of Ataturk for the creation of modern Turkey (and preventing falling prey to colonialism as one of the few nations on earth) and simply judge him on his policies AFTER all the hardships in struggle for defending our nation against the foreigners.

 

[FaujHistorian]

......
Just one Naive question remains.


1 | Imagine there is a country X with a population of 1000 people, if the country X elects a govt which you would call 'islamist' via a majority vote in a free and fair election. Is that govt acceptable to your view of things?.....

Islamism is antithesis of modern democracy. There are plenty of examples to support this.

Hitler was elected by Germans. Look the price they paid.

......
Just one Naive question remains.



2 | You just boasted about how MKA terminated 'Mullahs' in masses, as if they were livestock. How do you justify killing of unsuspecting, innocent, unarmed civilians for your political ambitions? - If it is justifiable than how are you different from the Taliban who kill unsuspecting, innocent, unarmed civilians for their respective goals?

Mullah Munwwar calls TTP terrorist as Shaheed

Now tell me which sane leader would allow an anti-national terrorist supporter to be free in the street in order to further destroy the country.

Kemal was not exterminating Mullahs, he was after extremist Mullahs.


Hope you understand.


p.s.

you asked 2 naive questions and not one.

 

[Kompromat]

Islamism is antithesis of modern democracy. There are plenty of examples to support this.

Hitler was elected by Germans. Look the price they paid.

Oh i was expecting you to drop the Hitler bomb...very scary indeed. However i must ask, what do you make of this.

1 | Turkey - a country with 100 years of secularism turns to what you would call an 'Islamist' govt.
2 | Egypt with decades old Secularism turned to an 'Islamist' govt.
3 | Tunisia with decades old Secularism turned to an 'Islamist' govt.
4 | Malaysia a modern democracy, a thriving capitalist economy is an 'Islamic Democracy'
5 | Syria a strictly Secular country for 4 decades, wants to be free and is following FSA which is an 'Islamist' political force.

So using your analogy, 5 different nations on three different continents are Nazis because they used their right of vote in free and fair elections, to elect 'Islamist' govts?

Mullah Munwwar calls TTP terrorist as Shaheed

Now tell me which sane leader would allow an anti-national terrorist supporter to be free in the street in order to further destroy the country.

And you support the killing of, unsuspecting, unarmed, innocent civilians by an unelected head of state just because they were imams? - You don't strike me very different from Munawar Hassan too, just that your orientation is far left. Both of you justify and drum up killings of innocent people, whats the difference?

Kemal was not exterminating Mullahs, he was after extremist Mullahs.

So when the right, commits murder its unacceptable but when the left does the same it becomes acceptable?

Thanks in advance.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Oh i was expecting you to drop the Hitler bomb...very scary indeed. However i must ask, what do you make of this.

1 | Turkey - a country with 100 years of secularism turns to what you would call an 'Islamist' govt.
2 | Egypt with decades old Secularism turned to an 'Islamist' govt.
3 | Tunisia with decades old Secularism turned to an 'Islamist' govt.
4 | Malaysia a modern democracy, a thriving capitalist economy is an 'Islamic Democracy'
5 | Syria a strictly Secular country for 4 decades, wants to be free and is following FSA which is an 'Islamist' political force.

So using your analogy, 5 different nations on three different continents are Nazis because they used their right of vote in free and fair elections, to elect 'Islamist' govts?
.

Yaaar it is too long of a discussion. each of these cases will need separate thread. Egyptian Islamist goose is already cooked. who knows when the rest of them go.

However!

you got your points

and I got mine.

I don't think I can convince you.

So let's be friends.

OK?

 

[Kompromat]

Yaaar it is too long of a discussion. each of these cases will need separate thread. Egyptian Islamist goose is already cooked. who knows when the rest of them go.

You really think that the Justice and Development Party is going to ''lose'' if there is another free and fair election in Egypt?

It was cooked by Saudi money, using murder as a tool. So when an unelected Saudi govt (one of its kind) funds the downfall of an elected egyptian govt you translate that as an 'Islamist vs Islamist' ?

However!

you got your points

and I got mine.

I don't think I can convince you.

So let's be friends.

OK?

Look, i am just trying to learn a few things from you, please don't deprive me of your expert opinion. I am willing to take this as further as you can, as deep as you can for as long as you can. No separate thread is needed for this.

You owe me tangible answers for the following queries i have made.

1 | Politics is embedded in Islam through authenticated texts. If Islamists are bad it means Islam is bad too, since the system under debate stems from Islam 'directly'.

2 | On one hand you oppose, all of the Islamic states that have come into being through revolutions and subsequent free and fair elections by dooming all of them as Nazi 'Islamists', however with the same tongue you support the Zionist State of Israel which too is built on religion, too is a democracy and there is no introduction needed to what exactly they do. How do you keep both gems at the same time? - So you oppose one type of religious state but approve of the other - how does that work?

3 | Please explain to me if democratically elected 'Islamist' govts in ex-secular states reflects the will of the people or not. If it does then there might be some weight to the political Islam, since many different countries from different continents, from different lingual and ethnic derivations are opting for the same idea?

4 | How do you justify the murder of innocent, unsuspecting civilians by leftists over time?. Or recently in Egypt? and how does it make you different from Munawar Hassan and his throat slitting heros?

 

[Noxchi]

In my opinion Mustafa Kemal ruined Turkey and made Turks drift towards the West destroying Turkish image in the Islamic world. Turks once upon a time were one of the fiercest warriors of Islam have now become secular wanna be westerners.

And there is nothing Islamic about Kemal Ataturk, he did not favor Islam and even got rid of his first name "Mustafa" because it sounded too Islamic.

Also Turkey never flourished under Kemalism due to its racist fascist backwards ideology, Turkey has been a third world country for nearly it's entire history up until the Justice and Development Party came into power whom are ironically anti-secular anti-kemalist Islamists.

 

[Solomon2]

"Muslim general"...in what sense, a Muslim who is a general or a general who fights for Muslims?

Both...........!

How about a Muslim who successfully fought to liberate hundreds of millions of his fellow Muslims from genocidal oppression and tyranny? I can only think of one man who fits that bill: M.A.G. Osmani.

 

[Noxchi]

My vote goes to Mr. Tayyip Erdoğan and his Ak Party again in the upcoming 2014 elections.

 

[atatwolf]

Thanks to Ataturk we have a country to live in. forget about religion or political views for a second, because if it wasn’t for him, we wouldn’t have a place to live in the first place since the Greeks, Armenians, Italians, French etc. would get a huge chunk of modern Turkey’s ground, kill us, assimilate us and most probably invade the last remaining part of Turkey (due the treaty of Sevres signed by the sultan) and colonize us anyway. So, please put aside all the grudges against him, and I admit there are some politics of Ataturk that I can’t appreciate at all, and accept that without him there would most probably no Turkish nation or Turkish people left in what we call now Turkey. This alone makes Ataturk a very important person for us.

As for the period after Ataturk, well, that is up to each one’s opinion. In my opinion Turkey has failed to make great leaps forward in the decades after Ataturk. It’s only since the last decade or 2 since things seriously started to roll for Turkey, resulting in Turkey expressing her voice more and pursue her own interest more aggressively. Many people thank AKP (Erdogan) for this, especially foreign fellow Muslims, so I can understand them as well. I just think that foreign fellow Muslims sometimes overlook the importance of Ataturk for the creation of modern Turkey (and preventing falling prey to colonialism as one of the few nations on earth) and simply judge him on his policies AFTER all the hardships in struggle for defending our nation against the foreigners.

Even while you explained it so clearly, there are still ignorant comments. It is really sad how religion makes them blind. I guess they would prefer a Turkey that was ruled by Armenians and Greeks. This is why secularism is important. Clear judgement and believing in true islam which is believing in allah without interfering in other people's lifes.

My vote goes to Mr. Tayyip Erdoğan and his Ak Party again in the upcoming 2014 elections.

Erdogan is also secularist. By the way, are you Chechen?

 

[Kompromat]

How about a Muslim who successfully fought to liberate hundreds of millions of his fellow Muslims from genocidal oppression and tyranny? I can only think of one man who fits that bill: M.A.G. Osmani.

He retired in 1967 - sensationalism fail!

 

[Noxchi]

We both know he is not a secularist and the reason why he has mentioned he is "secularist" a couple times in the past.

Yes I am Chechen.

 

[livingdead]

If you are really really looking for a "Muslim" general, then remember

"Khairud din Barbarosa" who fought under the banner of Ottoman Khalifa / Sultan Suleiman.

However I do not expect many Pakistanis to know the military history.

And as an Indian you too should not be $hitting in thread.

Thank you.

adat se majboor, .
barbarosa?.. I have played that campaign in aoe