Mustefa Kemal Ataturk: The greatest Muslim general of the 20th centuary?

[Aamna14]

With all due respect no he was not the greatest .

 

[jaibi]

20th century is the cap. Who else was? There was barely an independent Muslim nation that could call herself a country in the era of the Ottomans. We were slaves back then, at least Kamal was fighting for his people and not like us fighting for others.

With all due respect no he was not the greatest .

 

[Aamna14]

20th century is the cap. Who else was? There was barely an independent Muslim nation that could call herself a country in the era of the Ottomans. We were slaves back then, at least Kamal was fighting for his people and not like us fighting for others.

Then we have a slave metality and just because we were not good enough doesn't automatically mean that those who did alter their course were necessarily great. I don't want to dwell much on that because i don't want to hurt the feelings of any Turk on the reasons why i don't consider him great but thats my personal opinion.

 

[T-123456]

Then we have a slave metality and just because we were not good enough doesn't automatically mean that those who did alter their course were necessarily great. I don't want to dwell much on that because i don't want to hurt the feelings of any Turk on the reasons why i don't consider him great but thats my personal opinion.

Dont worry about feelings,express your thoughts.

 

[asad71]

With all due respect no he was not the greatest .

Zia and Akhtar Abdur Rahman. True soldiers of Islam Destroyed the-mighty Soviet Union.Cleansed Afghanistan of kafir invaders and brought C Asian Muslims back into the Islamic fold.

 

[Aamna14]

Dont worry about feelings,express your thoughts.

I have already expressed my thoughts the last time i saw there was thread on almost the same topic and somebody had expressed their doubts on the greatness of Mustafa Kamal resulting in most Turkish members fuming they couldn't take it that taught me to not get into things which might offend others.

 

[T-123456]

I have already expressed my thoughts the last time i saw there was thread on almost the same topic and somebody had expressed their doubts on the greatness of Mustafa Kamal resulting in most Turkish members fuming they couldn't take it that taught me to not get into things which might offend others.

I dont care about what others think,its my opinion.

Zia and Akhtar Abdur Rahman. True soldiers of Islam Destroyed the-mighty Soviet Union.Cleansed Afghanistan of kafir invaders and brought C Asian Muslims back into the Islamic fold.

Yeah right,they did it with what?
Weapons,training and intelligence provided by whome(CIA,not muslim)?
Not the Kafir West?(USA)

 

[niaz]

Greatest is indeed a subjective term and open to controversy. Let us ask ourselves what Mustafa Kamal actually did?

Who were the two of the most powerful and dominant colonial powers in 1920’? Most would agree that these were Great Britain and France.

These two great powers signed the Sykes-Picot Agreement in 1916 with the blessing of Imperial Russia, Greece and Italy. This involved dividing the Ottoman Empire between several states, both independent (e.g. Armenia and Kurdistan) as well as subject to UK & France (Arab provinces outside Arab peninsula). According to this treaty, a small territory around Ankara was all that was to be left for the Turks.

By May, 1919 situation in Anatolia was dire. South-eastern Anatolia had been invaded by the French and Italians. From the Mediterranean French, Italian, and the British had invaded. Greeks had invaded from the Aegean Sea. Allied Powers officially occupied Istanbul and disbanded the Parliament on March 16, 1920 and forced Ottoman Gov’t of Mehmet VI to sign Treaty of Severs in August 1920. This gave independence to Hejaz and Armenia and control of the national budget of the Ottoman Turkey to the Allied powers.

Turkish National Movement led by Mustafa Kamal declared that the sovereignty and life of the Ottoman Empire, which had lasted for six centuries had ended. Grand National Assembly (renamed Turkish Movement) decided upon armed resistance of the invading forces.

Greek Army suffered a heavy defeat during the Sakarya Battles between August – September 1921. Izmir was liberated on Sep 9, 1922. The war of Liberation ended thru Lausanne Treaty on July 24, 1923. The treaty recognized the creation of a Turkish State with virtually the same borders as those of 1920 but guaranteed her complete independence. This accomplishment is attributed to Mustafa Kamal.

In my humble opinion any Muslim general who can beat the two great colonial powers of the time is Great if not the Greatest.

 

[Targon]

His politician side was stronger, while he did good in most of his military involments, there was not much sensational actions to be called greatest, I don't about the rest of generals from that period though, period might be too sh.tty that he could be the greatest

On religion, he was either less religious or non-believer(his mother was religious though) but the fact is he didn't emposed that on people, his aim in his reforms was to make people actually know about religion without being controlled and manipulated by terrorist mullahs, he ordered translation of Quran to Turkish, made Azan Turkish, eliminated dangerous mullahs, soles aim in those is that, he abolished caliphate because position was easy to be misused and threat the newly founded state , for conservative and simple minded muslims that simple aim of his makes him an enemy of Islam, to be honest I don't think he would give any f.ck about them if he was alive.

 

[xenon54 out]

prove this fact wrong:
turkey out of its almost 100 year history was a country that made same progress as any third world nation, even with its extreme liberalism. turkey made the most progress ever in its history and became a country actually worth something under an "islamist party"

Atatürk made an nation out of the ash of Ottoman Empire, he made many reforms, built infrastructure up, founded various Institutions.
There is no exsample of such a radical reform in such short time in History, and all this in a war-worn country.

Turkey had many phases of progress but it allways stagnated during political disturbance periods.
And to the AKP progress part:
I explained it once but i will do it again, AKP has a good economic management but the main part of the progress we see today is this Man's heritage.

He was a member of AKP's main opposition party CHP

Kemal Dervis

When Derviş became Turkey’s minister of economic affairs in March 2001, after a 22-year career at the World Bank, the country was facing its worst economic crisis in modern history and prospects for success were uncertain. Derviş used his independence from domestic vested interests and support of domestic reformers and civil society to push through a tough stabilization program with far-reaching structural changes and sweeping bank reforms that protected state banks from political use. Derviş also strengthened the independence of the central bank and pushed through deep structural reforms in agriculture, energy and the budget process. These reforms, and his reputation and top-level contacts in the U.S. and Europe, helped him to mobilize $20 billion in new loans from the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank. Rapid economic growth resumed in 2002 and inflation came down from an average of nearly 70 percent in the 1990s to 12 percent in 2003; interest rates fell and the exchange rate for the Turkish lira stabilized.

Derviş resigned from his ministerial position on 10 August 2002 and was elected to parliament on 3 November of that year as a member of the main opposition Republican People's Party.

Kemal Derviş - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Targon]

Ataturk's period was fairly progressive despite the poor situation of country, sh.t happened after him, there were some period of progress of most of succeding politicians were incapable.

 

[Neptune]

I have the feeling of reposting what I wrote here months ago.

The most SILENT place I've ever been.

I've visited Anitkabir 3 times. First, my father brought me there when I was 12. And later the Navy brought us up in the other visits. But I can say you this. It was the most silent place I've ever been. The Place is at the top of a hill which's at the centre of the city.

TIME chose him as the Greatest Statesman Of The 20th Century. He wasn't just a great general. He was one of us. He was a talented Ottoman Officer, He was a hardworking President. He was an Idealist Teacher. He's the life-long Supreme Commander of all those served.
But I don't care about his religion, or his opinions over any religious or minor community, When it comes to Country things, Religion is the last thing to talk about. What matters is that freedom is not free, and he and his comrades had paid it well that day, as well as my and my childrens freedom.

He is Turk
He is our hero
He is our teacher
He is our life-long Supreme Commander
He is our President
He is our Founder.
He is our Father.

Periot.

I respect the opinions of those who hate him. But i'll crash you when it comes to insulting him, his comrades or his permanent legacy the Republic of Turkey. As a moderator i guarantee you that.

Like all those who did before, he paid blood and sacrifeced for our freedom.

 

[niaz]

Remember our discussion is limited to Muslim generals of 20th Century only. Despite being a keen student of history, I can’t think of many Muslim generals of note other than Turkish generals Mustafa Kemal Pasha & Ismael Enver Pasha.

Next victorious Muslim general that comes to mind is the King Adbul Aziz Ibne Saud, founder of Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. Ibne Saud had however British help and he defeated indigenous foes only not the might of super powers of his day.

From the South Asia, I would count only Faqir of Ipi (North Waziristan) who fought the British and was never convincingly defeated.

Even though I dislike him, the bigot Mullah Omer has proven his mettle against the US.

Mustafa Kemal may have been a bad or a non-practicing Muslim but he was born a Muslim. Thus people may not like Ataturk for one reason or another, in my book he is the foremost Muslim military leader of the 20Th century.

 

[xenon54 out]

Mustafa Kemal may have been a bad or a non-practicing Muslim but he was born a Muslim.

I know this is not your opinion, you just gave an exsample.
But saying he was bad or he was not muslim is not a opinion its a allegation/insulting.

 

[niaz]

I know this is not your opinion, you just gave an exsample.
But saying he was bad or he was not muslim is not a opinion its a allegation/insulting.

I never said 'Not Muslim' I said a non-practicing Muslim.

You are right I think very highly of Mustafa Kemal Pasha and I would never dream of insulting such a great leader and father of modern Turkey.