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The Shattering of the Muslim Hope in India

again specify... out of 800M hindus how many are decent human beings?

How should I have the count ? You count the Communists, people like @Joe Shearer, other progressive, rationals. How will you do the count ?

Quran + Sunnah.

What does that mean ? Please don't talk a Tableegh Jamaati. I have given you my thread to read, how much of that long thread did you read ?
 
How should I have the count ? You count the Communists, people like @Joe Shearer, other progressive, rationals. How will you do the count ?


i give you a %... less than 1%

have given you my thread to read, how much of that long thread did you read ?


very little..


i am clear in what i believe and action, Quran if you had bothered to read and truely understand a large portion is wisdom.
 
i give you a %... less than 1%

That makes what eight million, if my maths is correct ?

Enough progressives and rational Hindus. Can help the other rationals in India to build a advanced, sensible and harmonious society.

very little..


i am clear in what i believe and action, Quran if you had bothered to read and truely understand a large portion is wisdom.

You make only banal statements and are unable to explain in simple words. What is true Islam but mostly an ideology for political and socio-economic justice and harmony and abolishing some irrational ideas - to the extent achievable 1400 years ago by themselves and some borrowed though not unfortunately adopting one crucial former idea - Demokratia i.e. direct democray from Greece from 1100 years earlier. Some of Islam is what is described in my thread and is then also about revolutionaries all over the world since the early 1900s who understood that real, progressive spirit of Islam. Yes, it is wisdom as you said.

As for me understanding Islam, I am among a very few members on PDF who has posted the progressive aspects of Islam including the marriage law, a condensation of inheritance law and other things. I have the English translation of the Quran by Abdullah Yusuf Ali and though I have not read beyond ten pages ( will do it later this year or so ) I don't think it will contradict what I already know and what I have posted here including the thread I linked to you.
 
That makes what eight million, if my maths is correct ?

Enough progressives and rational Hindus. Can help the other rationals in India to build a advanced, sensible and harmonious society.



You make only banal statements and are unable to explain in simple words. What is true Islam but mostly an ideology for political and socio-economic justice and harmony and abolishing some irrational ideas - to the extent achievable 1400 years ago by themselves and some borrowed though not unfortunately adopting one crucial former idea - Demokratia i.e. direct democray from Greece from 1100 years earlier. Some of Islam is what is described in my thread and is then also about revolutionaries all over the world since the early 1900s who understood that real, progressive spirit of Islam. Yes, it is wisdom as you said.

As for me understanding Islam, I am among a very few members on PDF who has posted the progressive aspects of Islam including the marriage law, a condensation of inheritance law and other things. I have the English translation of the Quran by Abdullah Yusuf Ali and though I have not read beyond ten pages ( will do it later this year or so ) I don't think it will contradict what I already know and what I have posted here including the thread I linked to you.
My, you ARE the patient one.
 
My, you ARE the patient one.

I have hope. After all this is a discussion forum. Which is why I ask the deeper questions so that I can deliver what is correct and inform on what is part information, misinformation or misguidance. :)
 
The Muslims will be brought back to Hinduism by creating enabling environment and re education and with focus on Science, Facts and equality for men and women via Uniform Civil Code. These things when seeded takes time to germinate but we being an old civilization are not a Yahoo / Tarzan like Pakistanis. We are more like China...Chankaya.
Most Muslims won't abandon their religion. You cannot 'genocide' them.
You Pakustanis , whethee living in Pakistan, India, Babgladesh or any other
Are you calling Indian Muslims as Pakistanis?
 
Sir Jee: Barkhurdaar @jamahir barha he "dheeth" aur "chamrhees" banda hae. Aglay ko ghar pohncha ker he aata hae. :lol: :p: :lol:

Ha ha, ye farmaayen 👇 :D

The Muslims will be brought back to Hinduism by creating enabling environment and re education and with focus on Science, Facts and equality for men and women via Uniform Civil Code. These things when seeded takes time to germinate but we being an old civilization are not a Yahoo / Tarzan like Pakistanis. We are more like China...Chankaya.

Umm, let's discuss that by starting here. Note also the sections I have not underlined :
When we examine marriage laws in their historic context, it is interesting to note that the universally accepted notion that marriages are contractual rather than sacramental originates in Muslim law, which was accepted by the French law only in the 1800s and incorporated into the English law in the 1850s and became part of codified Hindu law as late as 1955. Today it appears to be the most practical way of dealing with the institution of marriage. Treating marriage as a sacrament which binds the parties for life has resulted in some of the most discriminatory practices against women such as sati and denial of right to divorce and remarriage, even in the most adverse conditions.

The cornerstone of a Muslim marriage is consent, ejab-o-qubul (proposal and acceptance) and requires the bride to accept the marriage proposal on her own free will. This freedom to consent (or refuse), which was given to Muslim women 1,400 years ago, is still not available under Hindu law since sacramental rituals such as saptapadi and kanya dan (seven steps round the nuptial fire and gifting of the bride to the groom) still form essential ceremonies of a Hindu marriage. Even after the codification of Hindu law, the notion of consent is not built into the marriage ceremonies.

The contract of marriage (nikahnama) allows for negotiated terms and conditions, it can also include the right to a delegated divorce (talaq-e-tafweez) where the woman is delegated the right to divorce her husband if any of the negotiated terms and conditions are violated.

Mehr is another unique concept of Muslim law meant to safeguard the financial future of the wife. It is an obligation, not a choice, and can be in the form of cash, valuables or securities. While there is no ceiling, a minimum amount to provide her security after marriage must be stipulated. This is a more beneficial concept than streedhan which is given by choice and usually by the natal family. In addition to Mehr, at the time of divorce, a Muslim woman has the right to fair and reasonable settlement, and this is statutorily recognised under the Muslim Women (Protection of Rights on Divorce) Act, 1986 as per the 2001 ruling of the Supreme Court in the Daniel Latifi case.

It is also important to address polygamy and triple talaq, two aspects of Muslim law which are generally used to discredit the community and argue in favour of a uniform civil code. While sharia law permits a man to have four wives (before 1956 Hindu law permitted unrestrained polygamy), it mandates equal treatment of all wives. If a man is not able to meet these conditions, he is not permitted to marry more than one woman. (Quran 4:3; Yusuf Ali’s translation)

On the other hand, though codification introduced monogamy for Hindus, the ground reality has not changed and Hindu men continue to be bigamous or polygamous. The most disturbing aspect is that while men in bigamous/adulterous relationships are allowed to go scot-free, it is the women who are made to pay the price. Women in invalid relationships with Hindu men are denied maintenance and protection and are referred to as “mistresses” and “concubines”, concepts specific to the uncodified Hindu law. Any attempt to codify Muslim law to bring in legal monogamy should not end up subjecting Muslim women to a plight similar to that of a Hindu second wife. This is an important concern which needs to be taken into account while reforming the Muslim law.

And lastly, the much maligned triple talaq or talaq-ul-biddat, which the Prophet himself considered as the most inappropriate form of divorce. Fortunately, in 2002, in Shamim Ara vs State of Uttar Pradesh & others, the Supreme Court laid down strict Quranic injunctions which must be followed at the time of pronouncing talaq, hence now fraudulent practices adopted by errant husbands (including email and SMS talaq) can no longer constitute valid talaq. Yet, after a decade and a half, very few know challenge the validity of such divorces in court as they are unaware about this ruling.

Though Muslim law stipulates many different ways to end a marriage, including a woman’s right to dissolve her marriage (khula), divorce by mutual consent (mubarra), delegated divorce (talaq-e-tafweez), judicial divorce (fasq)
Don't judge Islam by what form of practice you see of it in India especially in the last 15 years or so.
 
Come on, there was a clear TV report on NDTV some days ago where an elderly woman who had come to vote in UP said that when she went into the voting room she was told by officials there that her vote had already been cast through postal ballot and of course the ruling party in UP is BJP.

That's why ye voting-showting choddein, voting is a fraud against democracy. People create parties and those parties through money power, muscle power, false propaganda and dramebaaz roadshows force the citizens to vote for a party that is most convincing in demagoguery and not in guiding the society towards real development, advancement and harmony. Isn't the BJP the richest party in India ? Isn't BJP the biggest vote bank party in the world ?

People should strive for a party-less system which then will avoid unnecessary groupism and division in society and people will be able to discuss directly on issues. Please read that linked post of mine.

Postal ballot is less than 0.5% . You want to resurrect your narrative on one lady on NDTV proclaiming this.

NDTV recently posted sound bite of a girl coming from Ukrain. She was very critical of Modi....she happened to be daughter of Congress Functionary....

Same story of a girl protrsting for Hijab...dauhhter of a Muslim Political party..


You choose to ignore these...and you have @Joe Shearer , supporting with all anti Modi stuff. Joe especially has been a let down for the last few years...

But this site gives me my daily dose of comedy...so here I am...
 
Sir Jee: Barkhurdaar @jamahir barha he "dheeth" aur "chamrhees" banda hae. Aglay ko ghar pohncha ker he aata hae. :lol: :p: :lol:

NDTV recently posted sound bite of a girl coming from Ukrain. She was very critical of Modi....she happened to be daughter of Congress Functionary....
They are not allowed to speak out in public. That would be sedition.

Same story of a girl protrsting for Hijab...dauhhter of a Muslim Political party..
Daughters of Muslims are not permitted to speak on public subjects.

Daughters of Muslims who belong to a political party are not permitted to be citizens, even.

You choose to ignore these...and you have @Joe Shearer , supporting with all anti Modi stuff. Joe especially has been a let down for the last few years...
Joe has called Modi a blight on the nation, and his followers and supporters the fungus and parasitical growth that accompanies blights.

Why do you feel let down? Hurts to admit the truth?

Postal ballot is less than 0.5% . You want to resurrect your narrative on one lady on NDTV proclaiming this.

NDTV recently posted sound bite of a girl coming from Ukrain. She was very critical of Modi....she happened to be daughter of Congress Functionary....

Same story of a girl protrsting for Hijab...dauhhter of a Muslim Political party..


You choose to ignore these...and you have @Joe Shearer , supporting with all anti Modi stuff. Joe especially has been a let down for the last few years...

But this site gives me my daily dose of comedy...so here I am...
Have you noticed people laughing at your posts? Guess why?
 
NDTV recently posted sound bite of a girl coming from Ukrain. She was very critical of Modi....she happened to be daughter of Congress Functionary....

You mean the girl who said that the Indian embassy in one of the countries bordering Ukraine told some students who had traveled to there after much trouble, that those who wanted to board the evacuation plane first should clean the toilets first, was this girl was connected to some Congress functionary ?

So these students in Sumy :
students-4.jpg

...who said in a vid four days ago that they want to walk into the Russian border and if anything happens to them on the way it will be the sole responsibility of the Modi government and his much vaunted Operation Ganga will be considered a failure, are these students all related to Congress functionaries ? According to this report from today, we can guess that fearing the bad publicity the Modi government got the Indian embassy in Ukraine arranged for buses this morning to transport the students into Russia in anticipation of a ceasefire but fighting restarted because Zelensky government rejected Russia's ceasefire offer and the plan to transport the students had to be canceled. I suppose Zelensky is also a Congress functionary.
 
They are not allowed to speak out in public. That would be sedition.


Daughters of Muslims are not permitted to speak on public subjects.

Daughters of Muslims who belong to a political party are not permitted to be citizens, even.


Joe has called Modi a blight on the nation, and his followers and supporters the fungus and parasitical growth that accompanies blights.

Why do you feel let down? Hurts to admit the truth?


Have you noticed people laughing at your posts? Guess why?


Joe, i have read your post for the last 13 years, under different alias...i do not survive here...but you are the old die hard Congress/ Nehru loyalist.

I enjoy your play with English, and I understand you are bit old to assimilate suppressed facts which is new for you, but Sir, your bitterness will only grow. ...you were once on other side of PKistani posters here and now you share the table with them. You are like my late Uncle, a die hard commie Principal...with collapse of USSR, he had a shatterred last decades of his life....his utopian dreams gone @jamahir mind this.

But I love you anyway. You have enlightened me for more than a decade. You can give me negative rating and also give me permanent ban....the salt rubbing hurts a lot I concede.. .but I will continue reading your post...which only amuses me....in the memory of my late uncle.
 
You are like my late Uncle, a die hard commie Principal...with collapse of USSR, he had a shatterred last decades of his life....his utopian dreams gone @jamahir mind this.

The USSR had its dissolution 31 years ago, why should that discourage me from propagating Communism in 2022 and later ? There are many Communists in the world but even if was among the last few I would still propagate its ideals. Many people are fond of saying that "Look, even Russia discarded Communism" but don't realize that the Russian Communist party is the second-largest party there and you may have seen pictures of two Russians tanks in Ukraine carry the USSR flag.

However, USSR was just one propagator of Communism even if itself never quite realized the full ideals of Communism in its 69 years of existence but it was an important base for Communist discussion and propagation. The Libyan Jamahiriya's political system was really a realization of Communism's desire for a situation where there is no State and the people govern themselves directly i.e. direct democracy alongside a set of progressive guidance. But the Libyans never called their society as a Communist one though Gaddafi had written an essay titled "Has Communism arrived yet ?". Hugo Chavez adapted adapted Libya's system for Venezuela. Even Elon Musk desires direct democracy as the political arrangement for Mars settlements so there is scope there for propagation for full set of Communist political and socio-economic ideas on Mars when such settlements come by next decade. :enjoy: There are quite a few Communist movements in this world now - from Bangladesh to Turkey to Italy to Palestine to USA.
 

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