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Muslims in indian army

this is a joke, this nothing to be proud about, that they are doing these jobs shows there is nothing else for them to do with higher salaries or less labour intensive, essentially they are the underclass who are stuck on the sidelines..

What is proud or what is not proud is decided by people doing. The job above are done by many hindus too. So, if Muslims cannot be proud of this, nor Hindus can.

You cannot argue that Muslims are not provided Toilets in India, when in whole there is bit shortage of that. It applies to whole community and therefore we cannot create seperate toilets for them.
 
What about Hindus in Pakistan. Although I want you to answer but surely you have to think about it.

We have awarded highest position to non-Hindu people. Why not give President role to Some Hindu and then talk.

Today most Muslims would be happy to think that they didn't cross the border otherwise would have been blown with the attacks. :wave:

thats the problem with you guys, you think two rights make a wrong, or you will only admit to something if "the other side" does the same, pathetic excuses for "secular democratic people", complete frauds and charlatans.

i have never claimed pakistan is a wonderful place for hindu's, its probably much the same as it is for muslims in india, but then again you dont hear me spreading bs lies do you?
 
What is proud or what is not proud is decided by people doing. The job above are done by many hindus too. So, if Muslims cannot be proud of this, nor Hindus can.

You cannot argue that Muslims are not provided Toilets in India, when in whole there is bit shortage of that. It applies to whole community and therefore we cannot create seperate toilets for them.

no highly skilled jobs means in general poorer economic standing, not my opinion but economic fact.


the stronger the middle class the stronger the economic standing.

so where are the muslims lawyers?doctors?dentists?professors? etc etc.
 
i have never claimed pakistan is a wonderful place for hindu's, its probably much the same as it is for muslims in india, but then again you dont hear me spreading bs lies do you?

It's no way same. Whether you agree or not. Why we should put some muslims, or sikhs on top of position. Sonia (Chirstian) is president of UPA. While Hindus are sitting and hoping for best in next election.

So, let me admit, its you who are spreading lies. Come in India, and see how it works.
 
no highly skilled jobs means in general poorer economic standing, not my opinion but economic fact.


the stronger the middle class the stronger the economic standing.

so where are the muslims lawyers?doctors?dentists?professors? etc etc.

I don't know how much are lawyers or doctors. Our govt. is still not having census of that. Once we have we will show you that too..

Also, no one stop anyone going there. Did you heard about Kasab's Lawyer, he is Muslim. What about Aligarh Muslim University.
 
It's no way same. Whether you agree or not. Why we should put some muslims, or sikhs on top of position. Sonia (Chirstian) is president of UPA. While Hindus are sitting and hoping for best in next election.

rubbish logic, by that way of thinking black americans in the us have it good just because obama is president, even though a whole load of them are or have been in jail at some point.

so ultimately you cant tell me the prosperity of indian muslims, and i cannot tell you about prosperity of pakistani hindu's, thats the main point.

but its you who insists on spreading the falsehood, typical, fanatical hindu telling the world its ok for muslims in india, some people have no understanding of irony.
 
I don't know how much are lawyers or doctors. Our govt. is still not having census of that. Once we have we will show you that too..

Also, no one stop anyone going there. Did you heard about Kasab's Lawyer, he is Muslim. What about Aligarh Muslim University.

shooting from the hip, give me proportions, %'s, some proof, not bollywood rubbish, otherwise stop talking.
 
Muslims in Army : Hiding what`s well-known

The reason for the Muslim under-representation in the Indian army, or the Sikh over-representation, is something that lies partly in history, and its public disclosure would harm nobody.

There’s something surreal about India’s debate on Muslim under-representation in the Indian army. If the defence minister says the army has done no head-count of its Muslims, how did the army give an exact Muslim figure of 29,093 last month? The figure is backed by a retired lieutenant-general who says the Muslims are 2 per cent.

Whatever the exact percentage, a huge Muslim under-representation in our army is a fact. So is a huge Sikh over-representation. See the contrast. Sikhs form 1.86 per cent of India’s population but number around 8 per cent in the Indian army. Muslims form 13 per cent of India’s population but are 2 per cent in the army. Why should this truth about Muslim under-representation be suppressed? Or that of Sikh over-representation? But an irrational love of secrecy causes Indian rulers to hide information whose public disclosure would harm nobody.
Just as Muslims are under-represented in the army, so are the Bengalis, Biharis, Oriyas, south Indians or Gujaratis. And just as Sikhs are over-represented, so are the Jats, Dogras, Garhwalis, Kumaonis, Gurkhas, Marathas, Pathans and Punjabis.

The reason for this disparity lies in history. The Indian army’s recruitment pattern was set 150 years ago by India’s 1857 uprising. Traumatised by the rebellion, the British army adopted a recruitment policy that punished the groups which rebelled and rewarded the ones that stayed loyal. Because Muslims of Awadh, Bihar and West Bengal led the uprising, the British army stopped hiring soldiers from these areas.

Also blacklisted from these places were high-caste Hindus whose regiments in Bengal had also mutinied. In contrast, the British raised the recruitment of castes that had stood by the British to put down the uprising. These castes were the Sikhs, the Jats, Dogras, Garhwalis, Kumaonis, Gurkhas, Marathas, Pathans, plus Punjabis, both Hindus and Muslims. Honoured as martial races, they received preferential treatment in army recruitment for the next 90 years. Like any institution, the Indian army’s a prisoner of the past.

Even today, it favours enlisting men from the martial races. Their over-representation in the Indian army is huge. Figures bear this out. Of 2.87 lakh jawans hired by the army in the last three years, a disproportionate 44,471 came from three “martial” states, Punjab, Haryana, and the mountain state of Uttaranchal. So these states which account for 5 per cent of India’s population provided 15 per cent of India’s army jawans.

In contrast, the fewest recruits came from “non-martial” West Bengal, Bihar and Gujarat. These three states account for 30 per cent of India’s population, but they provided only 14 per cent of army jawans in this three-year period. So the Indian army has not only a religion-based disparity in recruitment, but also one based on caste and region. A glimpse of this discrimination was provided by a press release issued by a defence office in Jammu five years ago. Seeking recruits for the Indian army, the press release said: “No vacancies for Muslims and tradesmen.” Meaning that martial Dogras were welcome to apply, but not Hindu business castes like the Baniyas and the Khatris.

About the Muslim under-representation in the Indian army, the reasons are three. One was Partition. Before Independence, Muslims were around 25 per cent of the Indian army and 25 per cent of undivided India. But when India broke up and Muslim soldiers were asked to choose between India and Pakistan, they joined Pakistan en masse. So Muslim numbers in the Indian army dropped so drastically that they were only 2 per cent in 1953, according to India’s then minister of state for defence. Jawaharlal Nehru himself expressed concern that “hardly any Muslims” were left in the army. And Muslim numbers never really picked up in the last 60 years for a well-known reason.

India’s military establishment hesitates to hire Muslims as soldiers because it suspects Muslim loyalty to India. This discrimination is a natural outcome of India and Pakistan’s bitter hostility over 60 years. In similar situations, the same thing happens all over the world. The Israeli army doesn’t trust its Arab soldiers in jobs related to defence security. The Buddhist Sinhalese army under-recruits its Hindu Tamils lest their sympathies lie with the Tamil Tigers. After 9/11, US army recruiters would probably screen a Muslim American volunteer more thoroughly than a Christian American. Thanks to our four wars with Pakistan, the same anti-Muslim animus works here in army recruitment.

Proof of it lies in an enormous mass of documentary and other evidence which expresses distrust of Muslims. Otherwise, why does India have separate regiments for the Sikhs, Jats, Dogras, Garhwalis, Kumaonis, Mahars, the Nagas, even the Gurkhas, but not a single Muslim regiment? This is tragic but it’s a truth which shouldn’t be suppressed. It should be acknowledged and dealt with.

Events have consequences. Muslim under-recruitment in the Indian army is a consequence of Partition. India and Pakistan’s hostility is seen in both countries in Hindu versus Muslim terms. So it’s natural for India’s Hindu army establishment to distrust a Muslim who wants to join as a soldier.

This prejudice itself discourages qualified Muslim youths from applying, which drives down Muslim numbers even more. Another reason for Muslim under-recruitment is the relatively poor education of Muslims. When they try to enlist as soldiers, they are simply out-competed by better-educated Sikh, Hindu, and Christian youths. So Muslim leaders are quite right that Muslim under-recruitment in the army deprives the community of a good, life-long source of employment. It’s a sad situation not so easy to correct.

In life, however, one man’s meat is another man’s poison. The under-representation of Muslims and other caste or regional groups benefits the over-represented ones. The composition of the Indian army is totally askew numbers-wise. West Bengal’s population is eight times that of Uttaranchal. But Uttaranchal provided almost the same number of army recruits as West Bengal last year. Compare a “martial” Punjab with a non-martial Gujarat. Punjab’s population is half that of Gujarat. But it provided four times as many people to the Indian army as Gujarat. The Indian army hired far more recruits in Rajasthan than in Tamil Nadu though Tamil Nadu’s population is higher. Essentially, the Indian army is dominated numbers-wise by Sikhs and Hindi-speaking Hindus of north India. The current status quo suits them perfectly.

Arvind Kala / New Delhi March 04, 2006, Business Standard

Business Standard ::

Smelling ones own arse before pointing out at others is highly recommended.That is the quality of a winner and thats what the Sachar committee shows
 
shooting from the hip, give me proportions, %'s, some proof, not bollywood rubbish, otherwise stop talking.

Do you have statistics of how much proportion of lawyers, professionals are shia or shunni ? You are asking about census which are not held by us yet. Once we get develop we will update you with all details.
 
Do you have statistics of how much proportion of lawyers, professionals are shia or shunni ? You are asking about census which are not held by us yet. Once we get develop we will update you with all details.

thats what you dont get, who is claiming pakistan is a eutopia?

certainly not me, and certainly nobody else should be.

why is it that pakistan is an issue when we are talking about "indian muslims", typical indian.


now that we have established you have no substance to your claims you can stop talking about fantasies.
 
thats what you dont get, who is claiming pakistan is a eutopia?

certainly not me, and certainly nobody else should be.

why is it that pakistan is an issue when we are talking about "indian muslims", typical indian.


now that we have established you have no substance to your claims you can stop talking about fantasies.

My question do you have statistics of any type which can show how much are shia or sunni.

This is not for the purpose of showing pak a secular or non-secular but to make you inform that such statistics hardly exist anywhere.

Just from Pakistan, you cannot be aware about Indian Muslim
 
My question do you have statistics of any type which can show how much are shia or sunni.

This is not for the purpose of showing pak a secular or non-secular but to make you inform that such statistics hardly exist anywhere.

Just from Pakistan, you cannot be aware about Indian Muslim

well that depends on whether or not you have to disclose your religion as being sunni or shia in forms you fill in......durrr.

either way you are changing the topic to pakistan....again.
 
well that depends on whether or not you have to disclose your religion as being sunni or shia in forms you fill in......durrr.

either way you are changing the topic to pakistan....again.

No, i am not changing topic yet. I want to know do your country has any type of such mechanism which can measure professional with view point of religion.

We don't have such system that can count how much are muslim, how much are hindu, if you have let me forward to our govt.
 
No, i am not changing topic yet. I want to know do your country has any type of such mechanism which can measure professional with view point of religion.

We don't have such system that can count how much are muslim, how much are hindu, if you have let me forward to our govt.

ofcourse mechanisms exist, very simple ones, such as ticking a box on a form.
 
ofcourse mechanisms exist, very simple ones, such as ticking a box on a form.

I am asking do your country has. You are not answering. Yes solution for toilets is to build it. To create infrastructure, you need roads. Then why not create it once.

You are either short of knowledge or cannot accept anything by Indian. Brother, there is no mechanism exist in India which can provide such data. Indian population is about over 110 Crore and we cannot expense for your sake of interest.
 
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