Muslim invasion created Dalits and tribals in India, says RSS

[gubbi]

Exactly. The one who had the knowledge was the Brahmins. Not the other way around.

And they used that knowledge to control rest of the population.

The point of discussion is how and when the system got corrupted. There are plenty of examples in Kerala (since it was untouched by violent islamic invasion) where dalits became as knowledgeable as the Brahmins and rejected the supremacy of the Namboodris. They started their own temple and had their own priests.

Full Bull Shyte!
You really should take your nose out of some fantasy comic books you have been readong. Please to be reading some good informative texts. You dont even know what you are talking about.
Namboodris became powerful in and around 10-11 AD. Well AFTER the Islamic invasion. So how does your theory fit in with the time line? Please show us some reports which say that "Dalits" in Kerala rejected "Brahmin" supremacy.
And FYI, the first Christian converts (IIRC, Syrian Orthodox) in Kerala were actually "high class" Brahmins, not the "low caste" Dalits. A little research would do you much good.

The division of power was well established in Hinduism.

1. The Brahmins got to have knowledge, but was devoid of land, wealth and arms.
2. The kshatriyas got to have arms, but was denied knowledge outside his domain, land and wealth.
3. The Vaishya got to have wealth, but was denied knowledge outside his domain, land and arms.
4. The Shdra got to have land and cows, but was denied denied knowledge outside his domain, arms and wealth.

The question is when did this change ? that is the million dollar question.

Lol. YOu just contradict yourself and then ask inane rhetorical questions - and expect others to answer that for you. You really are a funny little man.
Do you wear a tin-foil hat?

 

[Indrani]

Don't know about that, since i DO NOT live in India. We get to know India from the people we meet and the media that speaks. However, it seems that BJP is hell bent on diverging attention to useless topics like these here in this thread, what is the point of that? Create further agitation?

These are not useless topics. If you saw the support for BJP and Modi in the run up to the general elections you would have known the mood of the nation and that it was in complete variance with what the media in India and internationally projected. It is important for a people to know who they are and where they are coming from to know where they want to go. Unfortunately, in India's case history has been distorted by Marxists historians to such an extent that if not corrected, it could perhaps lead to eventual break up of India. All BJP is doing is correcting this legacy, of course to the howls and protests of the usual suspects.

It is a deep subject and a rather vexatious one, but one that needs to be tackled.

Just check out this video to know what is being attempted.

 

[MokshaVimukthi]

Are those rhetorical questions? Or are you really such a simpleton?

Stop cherry picking. Makes you look pathetic.

Bull shyte! Gurukuls only accepted Brahmins.

I will be awaiting proof of that assertion. how soon will you be providing it ?

Even the warrior class was given limited knowledge and the higher caste of Priests &/or 'learned' men zealously guarded the dissemination of whatever knowledge was there - basically the ability ti read and write and knowledge of vedic texts. They used this very knowledge to keep the rest of the population in check.

Already explained in the Varna system. Modern constitution too has similar division of power. Its called the Executive, Judiciary, Legislature and the Forth estate.

Any overstepping of power is zealously guarded today too.

Who, in those times, would a common man fear - one who would physically fight him or one who would threaten to unleash the wrath of Gods upon him?

Clearly they feared the one who would kill him when they converted to islam. ............ later they feared one who would make him rich when he accepted Christianity. Strangely wrath of god did not seem to deter him much then. So much for your theory.

True. But you also conveniently forget to mention that his father was the wandering sage Parashara - a Brahmin who authored Vishnu Purana. And that inheritance of anything was based on paternal authority rather than maternal.

How about Valmiki ? Was his father a brahmin too ?

What about Namdev ? or Sri Narayana Guru or Gulabrao Maharaj ?

But you seems putting the entire blame on Islamic invaders..may be they promoted it...
Dalits were excluded from the chatur varna caste system and were treated as untouchables..or was it also coined by Islamic invaders??

Blame is assigned where blame is due.

Dalit is a modern day invention. Shudra's were very much part of the Chatur Varna system.

Untouchables were the out-castes who were thrown out of their respective castes due to any of their actions that made them 'impure' and 'unfit'. The very term in english "outcast" comes from that.

Raja Harishchandra also became a dalit and an outcaste.

 

[abjktu]

Untouchables were the out-castes who were thrown out of their respective castes due to any of their actions that made them 'impure' and 'unfit'. The very term in english "outcast" comes from that.

Raja Harishchandra also became a dalit and an outcaste.

See the thread title.. what it had to do with Muslim invasion,then??;

 

[wolfschanzze]

dude..the muslims and christians are no longer in power. we are. stop writing so much generic stuff without thinking.

Do you know about the Afro dalit project?Dalit nation?Dalit freedom network and the active funding by west and middle east to make dalits separate from hindus which could be later used for unrest and breakup of India? Do read "Breaking India" to know about them.They were in power for 1000yrs we are undoing the damage they caused in all those years.If Dalits are considered hindus and given "Equal Status" with other hindus why are people crying sbout it? It's a good thing isn't it?

 

[JonAsad]

Because, these fine arts existed way before muslims arrived. Parasurama was an expert in all the 64 forms of art and he belonged to the treta yuga which is some thousands of years before mohammad was born/Islam was formed.

Do you want us to believe that no caste system existed before Muslims invaded you?-

 

[Indrani]

lemme ask u this way. today, ie 2014 september, practically 2015, the condition some people are in, the shit they have to face at the hands of the so called upper class, the brahmin and the kshyatriya, these two classes are not abusing the power given to theem by a system which they themselves maintain BY RELIGION ? christians are not doing this untouchability stuff, muslims are not, why us ? who made this stuff up ? british ? they just found the syssstem to their advantage and they used it...some british even civilised these clowns of brahmins. the worst kind of blood suckers on earth.

What? Where did you find that nonsense? I am a dalit and I have traveled in most of the Western and Southern States of India and I have never faced any nonsense by any Brahmin or Kshatriya. You get reports of remote villages where some moron beats up a poor person and you thing that is higher caste oppressing lower caste? You claim Muslims and Christians have a perfect religion? Then go and see the different churches for Whites and Blacks in Western countries. Go and see the wall between Dalit churches and high caste churches in Tamil Nadu. Go and see how badly the Muslims treat the black Muslims and South Asian Muslims in Arab countries. Where do you think slavery and racism originated? Were the Brahmins responsible for all of that shit too? You claim Dalits had it worse than Blacks in USA or eunachs in Muslim Durbars?

Who were the leaders of freedom struggle in India? Most of them were from upper castes. What did they do after India won its freedom? Appropriate all power for themselves? So how come India came up with affirmative action for Dalits and Tribals? Was it hard won through agitation by the Dalits and Tribals? How did Dalits and Tribals get the right to same one man one vote if our upper castes are all the evil you say they are?

So if the British exploit people they are just being clever? Should the upper caste exploit people they are being evil? Then you claim the British were civilizing us?

See this? This is face of British civilization.

See this? This is Syria and the face of American civilization.

Now did our Brahmins do stuff like this? Or has your bootlicking tendency made you completely oblivious to honesty and integrity?

See that? So it was the Brahmin invasion of India in 18th century which dropped India's GDP from 20% of world GDP to 3% of world GDP before Independence? The Brahmins and Kshatriyas were being the blood suckers? Not your white masters?

 

[gubbi]

Stop cherry picking. Makes you look pathetic.

I will be awaiting proof of that assertion. how soon will you be providing it ?

You made a claim of gurukuls being open to all members of the society. Please show us your source.

Already explained in the Varna system. Modern constitution too has similar division of power. Its called the Executive, Judiciary, Legislature and the Forth estate.

Any overstepping of power is zealously guarded today too.

Irrelevant point. You make no sense whatsoever stating this.

Clearly they feared the one who would kill him when they converted to islam. ............ later they feared one who would make him rich when he accepted Christianity. Strangely wrath of god did not seem to deter him much then. So much for your theory.

Again goes on to prove that you know little about the society then. FYI, many of the conversations were not under the shadow of the sword.

How about Valmiki ? Was his father a brahmin too ?

What about Namdev ? or Sri Narayana Guru or Gulabrao Maharaj ?

You do understand that the times between these 'holy' figures you mention vary vastly - actually by more than a thousand years?
I also assume you know that caste system wasn't so entrenched nor were any stigma attached to 'lower' castes in the early periods unlike the later periods where caste was determined by birth. Right?
And also I imagine you know the difference between a Sanskrit scholar and poet-saint-philosophers who were among the first social activists/reformers?

 

[wolfschanzze]

bhai,tum bhi,,,,u think this is d way to promote Hindu unity

What i said was what vested interests are doing to alienate dalits as non hindus for easy pickings.In all my life i always considered Hindus as one entity whats wrong if we say that in public? Our job is to erode rigid caste structure which got ossified during Islamic and British time.

 

[StormShadow]

Do you want us to believe that no caste system existed before Muslims invaded you?-

I cant comment on that because caste system is believed to be existing right from the times of Ramayan and before. I was only talking in context to the pics you have posted.

 

[MokshaVimukthi]

And they used that knowledge to control rest of the population.

LOL. Sure. Their "words" were more powerful than the swords other held or the money others had

Full Bull Shyte!
You really should take your nose out of some fantasy comic books you have been readong. Please to be reading some good informative texts. You dont even know what you are talking about.
Namboodris became powerful in and around 10-11 AD. Well AFTER the Islamic invasion. So how does your theory fit in with the time line? Please show us some reports which say that "Dalits" in Kerala rejected "Brahmin" supremacy.
And FYI, the first Christian converts (IIRC, Syrian Orthodox) in Kerala were actually "high class" Brahmins, not the "low caste" Dalits. A little research would do you much good.

Ah... you'r a syrian christian ........ now everything becomes clearer.

You are the one to tell me about comic books . Show us some report that said christian converted were brahmins and not low caste dalits. Amazing how even after conversion you want to claim "high caste" status

Lol. YOu just contradict yourself and then ask inane rhetorical questions - and expect others to answer that for you. You really are a funny little man.
Do you wear a tin-foil hat?

I did ? how ? You are going to make claims and pretend it means something ? ....... who is the funny man here ? the one who wears a phiro ?

 

[Indrani]

But you seems putting the entire blame on Islamic invaders..may be they promoted it...
Dalits were excluded from the chatur varna caste system and were treated as untouchables..or was it also coined by Islamic invaders??

There were no Dalits back then. There is no exclusion in the chatur varna caste system. Human society is divided in just 4 varnas and there is no one else outside of it. Now mind you, I said human society. Society was only people in the towns and villages who had rights and duties as per varna. People in forests were excluded from the varna system because there was no taxation in the forests or any duties expected of the forest dwellers.

So there was no untouchability. What they had was a system of quarantine for travelers and forest dwellers when they came to the cities and villages. The same system of quarantine which saw to it that India was not devastated by Plague when 1/3 of Europe's population was wiped out by it. The same system of quarantine which keeps diseases like Ebola from spreading. Hence the different well for drinking water for people outside the villages and cities. Hence the differentiation. This system got corrupted into untouchability later on when the knowledge systems got wiped out and people just followed some customs without any thought application.

Is it too hard for you to understand that i am not comparing any religion rather i am saying to undone the mistake of the past than blaming it on others??

What undone the mistake? Do you think the constitution of India which was written by the Hindus promotes discrimination? Do you think our temples are asking people to discriminate? Then what are you going on about like an ***. Do you see Hindu leaders asking people to segregate on the basis of castes? The only assholes talking about caste in a negative way are the Christian priests in India.

Those who were responsible for the untruths will be exposed. Which means a lot of Christians will be blamed. Live with it.

 

[gubbi]

LOL. Sure. Their "words" were more powerful than the swords other held or the money others had

Actually yes. The same way you - a relic of past practices - wants it to be. If only you knew.
Poor, ignorant, uneducated people were more afraid of the 'wrath of the Gods' than money or words - neither of which they had any.

Ah... you'r a syrian christian ........ now everything becomes clearer.

You are the one to tell me about comic books . Show us some report that said christian converted were brahmins and not low caste dalits. Amazing how even after conversion you want to claim "high caste" status

Lol. You are a tin-foil hat wearing little man, arent ya?!

 

[Indrani]

why should a janitor be treated as an inferior being to the PM ? his rights are the same as the PM's and vice versa.

Yeah so why do you not get a job as a Janitor and ask for Z category protection. Why not demand to live in Rashtrapathi Bhavan as a janitor.

 

[MokshaVimukthi]

You made a claim of gurukuls being open to all members of the society. Please show us your source.

LOL....chickening out so soon ? Where is your proof ? ......Classic gurukul were the kalari where everybody was taught. Including ezahavas and Christians. Now where is your proof ?

Irrelevant point. You make no sense whatsoever stating this.

LOL. It make sense to those who really want to understand it. Not one's wearing christian supremacist hats.

Again goes on to prove that you know little about the society then. FYI, many of the conversations were not under the shadow of the sword.

.... tell that to all the nations muhammed and his caliphate attacked and converted.

You do understand that the times between these 'holy' figures you mention vary vastly - actually by more than a thousand years?

So ? What is the "ideal" duration as per you ?

I also assume you know that caste system wasn't so entrenched nor were any stigma attached to 'lower' castes in the early periods unlike the later periods where caste was determined by birth. Right?

Are you repeating my point to me again ? That's a new one.

And also I imagine you know the difference between a Sanskrit scholar and poet-saint-philosophers who were among the first social activists/reformers?

.... what is the difference ?