Muslim groups oppose renaming Jakarta street after Turkey’s Ataturk

[MultaniGuy]

In mainstream they are considered salafists even on goggle they are called Salafists "Ahl-i Hadith or Ahl-e-Hadith is a Salafi reform movement that emerged in North India in the mid-nineteenth century from the teachings of Sayyid Ahmad Shahid, Syed Nazeer Husain and Nawab Siddiq Hasan Khan"
Ahl-e-hadith scholars look up to Saudi scholars, get funding from Saudi and some scholars wear that cringe Saudi attire

I never wear Saudi or Arab clothing.

I only wear Shalwar Kameez.

Salafis, Ahle-e-hadith, and Deobandis are almost the same thing.

I’ve seen evidence from both sides. No real concrete stuff to say he wasn’t Muslim.

I suggest you read Andrew Mango or Lord Kinross's biography on Ataturk.

 

[EasyNow]

Don't obfuscate the issue.

Ataturk could not have saved the Khilafat but there was no need to thrust secularism on an Islamic nation called Turkiye.

The only ones obfuscating are the anti-Atatürk brigade on this thread - acting like he destroyed a healthy, bouyant khilafat - and failing to mention that it was already on its knees and no longer fit for purpose.

It's gaslighting of the worst kind.

 

[nahtanbob]

Caliphate is the reason we reign over the whole world for a whopping 1200 years that is a long time and we conducted the greatest expansion in history in the Caliphate era.

There is different type of invasion..

1. Temporary once where you can't hold onto a country or don't seek to because it demands extra work and alot of resources
2. a looting invasion
3. Where you simply annex a territory and try to fill it out and make permanent stay in that new territory without retreat.

The Mongols didn't know how to do that but the Romans did know how to do that but it took time and greater effort but they managed to do that but we were 10 times better then the romans at that type of annexation. That type of invasion is every hard because it is direct annexation where you have to re-direct alot of resources to new areas constantly where you can be over-streached quickly..

It also depends on you to be fast to learn foreign languages and intermingle as you aren't gonna retreat from there

I presume the 1200 years you are talking about is from 700-1900 AD

Now I know you are an Indian, you Indiot.

Show your true flags Indian.

That is because Bangladesh is geographically separate from Pakistan.

What is definition of Geographical separation ??

Geographic separation would ensure such a entity would NEVER last. Consider this. A Englishman in Britain and a Englishman in the colonies become estranged - eventually going brother going to war with brother. Johnny English against Johhny English.

What caused this? The separation of Atlantic Ocean giving birth to USA. George Washington was a Englishman by every measure by heritage. We have a city in UK called Washington.

Washington, Tyne and Wear - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Ps. With Banglas we did not share ethnic, linguistic, historical or cultural conformities. There was no chance of union in the long run.

You share the same language family, somewhat the same history and same ethnic (everywhere outside South Asia you are grouped with Banglas in the same group)

Given the size of Caliphate it rules out its recreation

 

[MultaniGuy]

I presume the 1200 years you are talking about is from 700-1900 AD



What is definition of Geographical separation ??



You share the same language family, somewhat the same history and same ethnic (everywhere outside South Asia you are grouped with Banglas in the same group)

Given the size of Caliphate it rules out its recreation

Umm..no we do not share the same language with Bangladeshis.

Bangladeshis do not speak Urdu and not of the same ethnicities of Pakistan.

The only reason Bangladesh became independent is because it is geographically separate from Pakistan.

Had Bangladesh been connected to Pakistan geographically like Sindh, it would never be independent.

Never compare Ahle-e-Hadiths with Salafis. I am saying this as an Ahle-e-Hadiths myself, we are very different from each other. According to us Salafis are crazy tyrants whose extreme pragmatism has detached them from rationality.

In the Middle East, they are called Salafis.

In the Asian subcontinent, they are called Ahle-i-Hadith (People of Hadith) or Deobandis.

So because it originated in Europe,all Europeans are fascists? Then all muslims are backwards Taliban-style Deobandi fanatics?

Funnily, the Afghan Taliban are back in power in Afghanistan.

A practicing Muslim does not make him a fanatic or extremist.

Get your facts straightened out. You also are at odds with Salafis, which is worrisome.

Because Salafis/Ahle-i-Hadith claim to be the orthodoxy or mainstream interpretation of Sunni Islam.

Obviously you are oblivious to this fact.

 

[Song Hong]

He is a Salonika Crypto Jews.

But nowadays, Jews found better for Turks to be Islamized than modernized. That explains the emergence of AK. I really suspect lots of Turkish upper class are crypto jews who hate christians.

 

[Indos]

CNN disseminating news on Indonesian civilians.....we can expect what quality of civilian Indonesia has now.

CNN Indonesia and CNBC Indonesia are owned by Indonesian company, CT corps. They just buy the license of CNN and CNBC brand while the operation and journalist are all Indonesian.

One of the news producers in CNN Indonesia is actually my friend, so better you stop your hallucination.

CNN Indonesia​

Cable News Network Indonesia (known as CNN Indonesia) is a 24-hour Indonesian digital free-to-air and cable television news channel owned by Trans Media in collaboration with AT&T's WarnerMedia under its CNN license.[1] Broadcasting from Trans Media studios in South Jakarta, the local franchise presents national and international content, focusing on general news, business, sports and technology.

Programs are aired 24 hours daily via digital terrestrial TV stations, pay TV providers Transvision and IndiHome nationwide; and live streaming services for overseas viewers.

CNN Indonesia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

------------------------------------------------------------------

The owner is Muslim Indonesian, Chaerul Tanjung. He also own Trans7 and TransTV which is more into entertainment

Chaerul Tanjung with his family ( mother, wife, and children )

 

[Song Hong]

Ataturk is partly responsible for millions of death of Christians in Anatolia, not just Armenian alone. Now his legacies are being whitewashed by Turks and Jews, and he seems like a good guy.

Curiously, Indonesian Muslims are against him, though he is the one who Islamized Anatolia by killing all Christians.

Maybe Indonesian Muslims are really kind. Maybe they hate Christian killings.

 

[Leishangthem]

CNN International and CNBC International are owned by Indonesian company, CT corps. They just buy the license of CNN and CNBC brand while the operation and journalist are all Indonesian.

One of the news producers in CNN Indonesia is actually my friend, so better you stop your hallucination.

CNN Indonesia​

Cable News Network Indonesia (known as CNN Indonesia) is a 24-hour Indonesian digital free-to-air and cable television news channel owned by Trans Media in collaboration with AT&T's WarnerMedia under its CNN license.[1] Broadcasting from Trans Media studios in South Jakarta, the local franchise presents national and international content, focusing on general news, business, sports and technology.

Programs are aired 24 hours daily via digital terrestrial TV stations, pay TV providers Transvision and IndiHome nationwide; and live streaming services for overseas viewers.

CNN Indonesia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

------------------------------------------------------------------

The owner is Muslim Indonesian, Chaerul Tanjung. He also own Trans7 and TransTV which is more into entertainment

Chaerul Tanjung with his family ( mother, wife, and children )

View attachment 821526

Like any such deal would be possible if the affiliates were unbiased toward American geopolitical opponents, it's obvious from the pattern of reports from cnbc & CNN Indonesia ,these are the pivots for dissemination of anti china, pro usa sentiment locally.
The fact that anyone would even bother procuring deals with Foreign Council Media institutions, linked with CIA,tells Indonesia is hijacked by shills of west.And CIA can force the revocation of license if the local operatives don't toe Western narrative or waver license fees if they toe western narrative.Like there's no collaboration and exchanges of ideas at base lvl.lt's really dumb to think,a CNN/CNBC offshoot would be fair and unbiased.The US only awards its patron for their bidding.

 

[Song Hong]

Comparing the Muslim leaders of the time of the day, the Arabs are infintely better now and in the past. The Arabs turned bad in some places especially Saudi because the Jews kick out the orthodox Hashimite, replacing it with bandit Al Saud.

Meanwhile Arabs (especially those that are no infiltrated by US and Jews) still try their best to treat many tribes and religion with respect.

Whenever Arab can resist Turks militarily, the Christian will be protected. Christians will be around. Whenever Turks gain a inch on Arab land, immediately Christians will be purrged.

All good people should support Arab against Turks and Jews.

 

[_NOBODY_]

In mainstream they are considered salafists even on goggle they are called Salafists "Ahl-i Hadith or Ahl-e-Hadith is a Salafi reform movement that emerged in North India in the mid-nineteenth century from the teachings of Sayyid Ahmad Shahid, Syed Nazeer Husain and Nawab Siddiq Hasan Khan"
Ahl-e-hadith scholars look up to Saudi scholars, get funding from Saudi and some scholars wear that cringe Saudi attire

You can't compare the original way of the Salaf to modern-day Salafism.

I never wear Saudi or Arab clothing.

I only wear Shalwar Kameez.

Salafis, Ahle-e-hadith, and Deobandis are almost the same thing.

All three have a lot of similarities but at the same time have huge differences. I will only speak for Ahle-e-Hadiths since I am one. Ahle-e-Hadiths at their core are very anti clergy and anti mullah and seek guidance directly from Qur'an and authentic Hadith. Our interpretation of the Quran and Hadiths may vary. We also strongly oppose anything that challenges the status of God and monotheism. We don't have any specific Imam that we must follow like the Wahabis who follow Imam Abdul Wahab.

 

[nahtanbob]

Umm..no we do not share the same language with Bangladeshis.

Bangladeshis do not speak Urdu and not of the same ethnicities of Pakistan.

The only reason Bangladesh became independent is because it is geographically separate from Pakistan.

Had Bangladesh been connected to Pakistan geographically like Sindh, it would never be independent.

You cannot have it both ways - blame it on geographical separation

and then claim Banglas are different

Bangla is in Indic language family group like Punjabi or Sindhi

 

[dBSPL]

The school that Atatürk took as a basis in the structuring of Diyanet(Directorate of Religious Affairs) is Maturidism. The main reason for this is that it is more flexible and open to scientific thought than other Schools of Islamic theology. Atatürk also wanted to reinforce his reforms with some other unusual prograsivism attempts such translating the religion of Islam into Turkish. The third pillar was that elimination of fake sheikhs and mullahs; which is the way the British have penetrated into the social, political also national dynamics, and these so called congregations mask activities with religion in this way.

As a matter of fact, the structure that tried to hand over the goverment to the USA-puppet structure through a military coup 100 years later, is basically a so called religious community, although it is a NATO gladio. If you examine the articles written by some famous fugitives who are members of this terrorist organization, they are all busy licking the Atlantic azz and accusing the current government of the country of being irreligious. All the Islamic traditions of the Turkish army still continue undisturbed. But this NATO gladio, the so-called religious community FETO, who wanted to show the Turkish army as having problems with Islam; they had a single world religion agenda under the name of interfaith dialogue.

Some people who accuse Atatürk of being irreligious, even accusing him of being Jewish and freemasonry... These pathetic people do not even understand the basic concepts of historical science. They probably don't even know how many independent Muslim countries were on the 1920 world political map. They don't know why the Turkish state collapsed and had to fight for liberation... They don't know how and why Turkish nation supported Atatürk...They blame, because what they got their perspective of history based from Masonic historiography. They know neither Turkish archives nor Turkish theses.

Yes, the irony is that these people cursing Masons from morning to night, but their understanding of history is also fed from the same source. Due to some health issues, I can't spare time for the forum. If I feel a little better, I can write more about it. Take care of yourselves, friends.

 

[dBSPL]

Ataturk is partly responsible for millions of death of Christians in Anatolia, not just Armenian alone. Now his legacies are being whitewashed by Turks and Jews, and he seems like a good guy.

Curiously, Indonesian Muslims are against him, though he is the one who Islamized Anatolia by killing all Christians.

Maybe Indonesian Muslims are really kind. Maybe they hate Christian killings.

Completely baseless accusations. Also lacks historical knowledge. Ignoring cause and effect relationships and only looking at one side of the coin, assuming a century-old cross-section as if it happened all of a sudden and holding Atatürk responsible for whole of these is a stupid approach. When was Atatürk recognized as the national leader? at the Sivas Congress. When was the Turkish National Assembly established? in 1920.

When the Greek occupation army reached Ankara in 1921, were you expecting Atatürk to surrender the country to the Greek atrocities? I can bring you hundreds of documents about the Turkish villages destroyed by the Greek army in Western Anatolia. Or, How the French and British occupied Southern country... Before all of them, Even the armenian corps that occupied Eastern Anatolia was under the Russian army... You have any idea how Turks had face brutality and atrocities committed by these elements? All of families in Turkey have some traces from that days. A state collapsed and the fell apart into pieces. The Turks died the most under this rubble. All the great states of the period were involve in this story by using proxy elements. We do not like to compete with death and suffering, and we do not consider it appropriate for our honor to make a demogogy material. My wish to you is to examine Turkish history with academically acceptable archival documents instead of purely ideological and hypothetical history. Of course, first you will need to learn what the causality principle and historical chronology are, and which political structures existed in which period.

Start by reading the Lausanne peace agreement. It will be a good guide for you to understand the history of our region. Maybe in this way, you will also be aware of the population exchange.

 

[Foinikas]

Get your facts straightened out. You also are at odds with Salafis, which is worrisome.

Salafis are the majority of terrorists and brutal jihadis causing trouble around the world and giving Muslims a bad name.

I should you should find THAT worrisome.

 

[Foinikas]

Completely baseless accusations. Also lacks historical knowledge. Ignoring cause and effect relationships and only looking at one side of the coin, assuming a century-old cross-section as if it happened all of a sudden and holding Atatürk responsible for whole of these is a stupid approach. When was Atatürk recognized as the national leader? at the Sivas Congress. When was the Turkish National Assembly established? in 1920.

When the Greek occupation army reached Ankara in 1921, were you expecting Atatürk to surrender the country to the Greek atrocities? I can bring you hundreds of documents about the Turkish villages destroyed by the Greek army in Western Anatolia. Or, How the French and British occupied Southern country... Before all of them, Even the armenian corps that occupied Eastern Anatolia was under the Russian army... You have any idea how Turks had face brutality and atrocities committed by these elements? All of families in Turkey have some traces from that days. A state collapsed and the fell apart into pieces. The Turks died the most under this rubble. All the great states of the period were involve in this story by using proxy elements. We do not like to compete with death and suffering, and we do not consider it appropriate for our honor to make a demogogy material. My wish to you is to examine Turkish history with academically acceptable archival documents instead of purely ideological and hypothetical history. Of course, first you will need to learn what the causality principle and historical chronology are, and which political structures existed in which period.

Start by reading the Lausanne peace agreement. It will be a good guide for you to understand the history of our region. Maybe in this way, you will also be aware of the population exchange.

The thing is that massacres against Greeks and Armenians in Anatolia,had started way before Ataturk. They had started during the Ottoman Empire and before WWI. That's a thing many people ignore and blame only Ataturk and the Young Turks about it.

Now,I kept telling these 3-4 people here,that Turks have the right to consider Ataturk as their national hero and a great figure in their history. He is the father of modern Turkey. He did a lot for Turkey. He did a lot for his nation. And if I'm not mistaken,he wanted peace and friendship with Greece later.

But these people are stuck with Khilafas and Sultans and a hardcore Panislamic world that will enforce Sharia Law and talk about the good times in the deserts of the Jazeera and how life was better riding camels in the 7th century.

He is a Salonika Crypto Jews.

But nowadays, Jews found better for Turks to be Islamized than modernized. That explains the emergence of AK. I really suspect lots of Turkish upper class are crypto jews who hate christians.

I don't know if he was a crypto-Jew or a freemason or if he really hated islam or not. They say a lot about Ataturk. For us he was an enemy,but that doesn't mean he wasn't a smart,ambitious person who wanted to help his nation. For a Turk to despise him is weird. They him for turning Turkey into a secular country.