Mullahism V/S Liberalism

[Iggy]

@seiko lets start from the beginning...OUR FAITH literally is a promise to GOD we will not BOW to ANYONE but HIM...Do you want us to break this promise just to make HUMANS happy? What if we die tomorrow after making other humans happy...how will we face OUR GOD? No religion does this but we do it because we hold our religion sacred + we have rules to live like countries have rules to live...you need visa, you are not allowed certain things because the govt labels these illegal and so on...You will rather listen to govt (and avoid doing illegal things) over GOD (and do which is forbidden like bowing to other gods)?! I am sorry but I find that REALLY funny!

There is respect as in I will not bash your religion...I will ask questions which strictly are for the purpose of comparing as you did...but I will not bash it! I can very well if need be but my respect is not to bash...I will give examples if provoked but wont laugh at your belief because Islam doesnt teach me that!

@Talon, I did mention that it was your belief and your personal choice. I was just replying to your quote that whether Hindus will denounce their believes and bow only to Allah.. My intention was simple.. To respect other religion or faith, you do not have to denounce your religion.. One of the head of a Christian church said recently in an interview that he visited both mosque and temple and he said its doesn't make him a less Christian.. All faith are praying to the same god, just the medium is different..

That makes sense. But like I said we have a promise not to bow in front of a human, an idol or ANYTHING EXCEPT GOD...

You dont have to bow to someone to show respect...Here in the West we nod our head to show we notice...But no one will bow to you even if you are CEO or President!

I was just giving you a small example of bowing of head means in India culture, nothing to do with any religion

I was just giving an example of RC because it is 1 of the most practiced sect in the West...though others are emerging quickly too...We have a sect in Islam which claims saints are purer or holier and some go and ask them to pray as their prayers will be answered faster...I do not see it that way as in the Quran ALLAH said you ask me I will give...why go to other people when ALLAH HIMSELF said HE will give and HE is the giver!

Sorry if I offended in you any way!

Not at all offended by it dear!! I was just clearing the mis conception only.. Its not worshipping.. In simple terms, we are using middle men here ..

PS: I am not RC

 

[livingdead]

Neither is good nor bad as long as one is at peace with himself and let others go about doing their thing. And it looks like finding that PEACE in oneself is, well not our cup of tea or pint of brew !!!

exactly.. live and let live.. let mullahs do their mullah stuff.. and let us drink to their health.. amen..

 

[Dubious]

@Talon, I did mention that it was your belief and your personal choice. I was just replying to your quote that whether Hindus will denounce their believes and bow only to Allah.. My intention was simple.. To respect other religion or faith, you do not have to denounce your religion.. One of the head of a Christian church said recently in an interview that he visited both mosque and temple and he said its doesn't make him a less Christian.. All faith are praying to the same god, just the medium is different..




I was just giving you a small example of bowing of head means in India culture, nothing to do with any religion



Not at all offended by it dear!! I was just clearing the mis conception only.. Its not worshipping.. In simple terms, we are using middle men here ..

PS: I am not RC

Ah...and I was simply clarifying WHY we Muslims can not...

 

[Audio]

Liberalism also lets you laugh at gays. It's wonderful, you do it, they get all mad and with their fag voice tell you how backward and intolerant you are, that being gay is ok and that's just how he is!
Then i tell him (it's always male, males have pathetic tones of voice, so irritating) i'm just exercising my state given right to free speech, that's just how i am and if he doesn't like it that's not my problem.
So far noone replied with anything that could shut me up.

 

[Slav Defence]

Get your facts straight...

There is no such thing as "mullahism" in islam .

Islam is the most tolerant religion on earth !!!

tell me this : why does a man who follows western culture is called a liberal and someone who follows his religion (specially islam) is called a stereotype/mullah .

also how can you judge millions of practicing muslims on the bases of the ideology of a few thousand ???

You have twisted my statement Mr.Rampage,before criticizing me it is better that you should see the options I have given,and read my previous post carefully.

 

[Slav Defence]

Radicalism and Religious Extremism (or Mullahism, as you put it) is the worst thing that ever happened to the nation. The mullahs are responsible for almost all of our current problems including terrorism, lack of foreign investment, sectarian violence, lack of tourism, bad international reputation, lack of freedom etc.

The only way forward, for Pakistan, in my opinion is to promote liberality, secularity and religo-political freedom. We must stifle these cruel, fanatic extremists who have ruined our infrastructure, economy and integrity. I strongly condemn the "soft" view held by certain political parties and apologists towards these criminals. Negotiating with them is futile and outrageous.



I am a proud member of category 1.

That said, however. I do not think one can simply divide the entire PDF community (and, indirectly, the Pakistani public) into the two categories you described. Assuming the entire Pakistani population is divided between two conflicting view-points is inaccurate to the point of being preposterous. There is really no clear, defining line that separates a "mullah apologist" from a liberal. The majority of the Pakistani population hold a combination of conservative and secular viewpoints. You can't just mark them as belonging to one category or the other.

Well said,second...I didn't divided the entire Pakistan completely,but I just highlighted specific mindsets Mr.Interhacker.

 

[Slav Defence]

@Slav Defence, Raja Pakistani answered the question in the most simplest way I don't know if there is anything else to Add to it. In short both are dangerous for the society and both goes to the extreme. I don't mind criticism Islam in it basic or advance form clearly tells you to be the best example and the idea and for people to stop listening to liberalists and mullahs [the bad ones] and do your own study...what is Quran for to read to understand, what is authentic hadith for to be guided.

I'll give you an example saudis/arabs hates iran even so iran has a different version of islam post prophet Muhammad P.B.U.H both both believes in the same God and all the Prophets yet saudis have a genuine hate for iranians declare other as kafirs and tells the muslim world specifically to stop dealing with them yet they themselves deal with whom? West...the one who rejects Islamic point of view history or religion. [I've no objection to the west whatever they like to believe they have their freedom to throw at us we'll throw at them] this is double standards this is confused position and this is one extreme position by saudis and arabs generally. I can go on write a book on a specific region and country but lets keep it to the basic topic both have blood of Hypocrisy running through their veins.

Well said...furthermore....
Mr.Luftwaffe,let me clear it out first to many others that why I have started this thread today?I am personally evident of this so-called mullahism,let me tell you that I am not criticizing Islam as Mr @RAMPAGE and others have misunderstood,but specific mindsets who have twisted actual Islam and blurred the very base of it.
Let me share this incident with you.
Once there was a kid whom I used to teach,so once,I asked him that why he changed his field after completing his intermediate with science?why is he doing BA?He replied that because his preacher told him that drawing pictures in Islam is haram.
I was very shocked,I replied:"verily it is forbidden to make **** statues and figures of alive beings,but for the sake of study like physiology and medical,zoology...it is not haram.
He replied:"My preacher told me that no need for it,when we will enter inside heaven then Allah will teach us,about all his creations,everything..."
After he left,I thought that how this mullahism has blurred and ruined Islamic teachings?
Tell me if everyone began to follow that incomplete conception like of his preacher then imagine,no one will become doctor in Pakistan,as we don't need to,we will learn in heaven
What do you suggest?shouldn't we suppose to stop such mindsets Mr.Luftwaffe?
@Talon @K-Xeroid @developero @muse @Zarvan @Secur and others...

am not derailing the thread, it appears to me that whoever does not agree with your version of islam is mullah according to you, (and you are a liberal according to them)... carry on anyway..am out..

Oh no Mr.Hinduguy,you misunderstood,if I do then I will not dare to start this thread.

 

[Slav Defence]

I'm neither a mullah nor liberal. I try to understand things, do some R&D on it and then make my own decisions. If I decide that something is right, whether its strict religious or completely liberal, I do it regardless of what others think or say.

Regarding Mullahs, I am in support of point 1 and consider them threat to Nation. These mullahs are far from actual Islam, which teaches harmony, brotherhood and peace. Those who can't stand in one line shoulder to shoulder while praying, how can they guide a Nation towards brotherhood and peace?

Exactly,I thank you for you understand my point and context very clearly and cleverly,and you didn't accused me as anti-Islam

 

[RAMPAGE]

Well said...furthermore....
Mr.Luftwaffe,let me clear it out first to may others that why I have started this thread today?I am personally evident of this so-called mullahism,let me tell you that I am not criticizing Islam as Mr @RAMPAGE and others have misunderstood,but specific mindsets who have twisted actual Islam and blurred the very base of it.
Let me share this incident with you.
Once there was a kid whom I used to teach,so once,I asked him that why he changed his field after completing his intermediate with science?why is doing BA?He replied that because his preacher told him that drawing pictures in Islam is haram.
I was very shocked,I replied:"verily it is forbidden to make **** statues and figures of alive beings,but for the sake of study like physiology and medical,zoology...it is not haram.
He replied:"My preacher told me that no need for it,when we will enter inside heaven then Allah will reach us,about all his creations,everything..."
After he left,I thought that how this mullahism has blurred and ruined Islamic teachings?
Tell me if everyone began to follow that incomplete conception like of his preacher then imagine,no one will become doctor in Pakistan,as we don't need to,we will learn in heaven


What do you suggest?shouldn't we suppose to stop such mindsets Mr.Luftwaffe?
@Talon @K-Xeroid @developero @muse @Zarvan and others...

dude u seriously need to study history !!!

have u any idea how the catholic church treated science before the 16th century ??????

One such example is Giordano Bruno....

the scientist was burned at stake with his tongue nailed to his jaw .......

the point is that religious extremists are found in every religion.

 

[Slav Defence]

dude u seriously need to study history !!!

have u any idea how the catholic church treated science before the 16th century ??????

One such example is Giordano Bruno....

the scientist was burned at stake with his tongue nailed to his jaw .......

the point is that religious extremists are found in every religion.

Mr.Rampage,you don't need to teach me the history,I am well aware of it.
So when did I said that they are not found in other religions?

 

[ranjeet]

exactly.. live and let live.. let mullahs do their mullah stuff.. and let us drink to their health.. amen..

amen to hick that brother

 

[Secur]

Both suck tolerance wins

Middle path , not swinging between extremes is the way forward .

@Slav Defence

Mate , I will reply later with a detailed post . I feel sleepy at the moment , even though I have much to say on the subject

 

[Slav Defence]

Middle path , not swinging between extremes is the way forward .

@Slav Defence

Mate , I will reply later with a detailed post . I feel sleepy at the moment , even though I have much to say on the subject

No problem,you can enlighten us later

 

[RAMPAGE]

Mr.Rampage,you don't need to teach me the history,I am well aware of it.
So when did I said that they are not found in other religions?

Ms.Rameesha, than why use the term "mullah" ???

a practicing muslim might be offended by this...

do u know the meaning of the term "mullah"

its quite the opposite of ur description ...

 

[Slav Defence]

And here we have a genocidal mullah....

Does anyone remember Chacha Hypey's: Types Of Mullahs 1.0?

I think that I have included your described category as well Mr.Hyperion..

I am sure this was'nt a faith Vs Faith topic. not sure why people are bashing each other over Mosques & Temples
but about a mindset of a religious mafiya

Exactly Mr.Balcoh well said,I myself don't understand their reason of aggressive attitude.