Mullahism V/S Liberalism

[interhacker]

I ask you,exactly what is the definition of mullahism and liberalism and which system will best suit Pakistan?if anyone of them is destructive then why?

Radicalism and Religious Extremism (or Mullahism, as you put it) is the worst thing that ever happened to the nation. The mullahs are responsible for almost all of our current problems including terrorism, lack of foreign investment, sectarian violence, lack of tourism, bad international reputation, lack of freedom etc.

The only way forward, for Pakistan, in my opinion is to promote liberality, secularity and religo-political freedom. We must stifle these cruel, fanatic extremists who have ruined our infrastructure, economy and integrity. I strongly condemn the "soft" view held by certain political parties and apologists towards these criminals. Negotiating with them is futile and outrageous.

I have observed two types of mindsets in PDF.
1)The one who considers mullahs as worse threat to Nation.
2)Those mindsets who promote mullahism idealism

The most prominent part is,both mindsets completely collapse to each other's ideology.

I am a proud member of category 1.

That said, however. I do not think one can simply divide the entire PDF community (and, indirectly, the Pakistani public) into the two categories you described. Assuming the entire Pakistani population is divided between two conflicting view-points is inaccurate to the point of being preposterous. There is really no clear, defining line that separates a "mullah apologist" from a liberal. The majority of the Pakistani population hold a combination of conservative and secular viewpoints. You can't just mark them as belonging to one category or the other.

 

[ranjeet]

Neither is good nor bad as long as one is at peace with himself and let others go about doing their thing. And it looks like finding that PEACE in oneself is, well not our cup of tea or pint of brew !!!

 

[Jazzbot]

@Hyperion @Secur @Aeronaut @muse @Talon @Zarvan @Awesome @WebMaster @Last Hope @Luftwaffe @Irfan Baloch @balixd @Yzd Khalifa @DESERT FIGHTER @Leader @Jazzbot and others.....
Kindly share your views,without a fear of criticism,also let others know if you are liberal,then why do you consider this liberalism best for Pakistan.
It is time to finish this impression that PDF does not gives freedom of speech and supports anti-islamic views.

I'm neither a mullah nor liberal. I try to understand things, do some R&D on it and then make my own decisions. If I decide that something is right, whether its strict religious or completely liberal, I do it regardless of what others think or say.

Regarding Mullahs, I am in support of point 1 and consider them threat to Nation. These mullahs are far from actual Islam, which teaches harmony, brotherhood and peace. Those who can't stand in one line shoulder to shoulder while praying, how can they guide a Nation towards brotherhood and peace?

 

[doppelganger]

Recently a Muslim friend of mine really took me by surprise and frankly shocked me by saying that he has told his father that he does not want to continue to be a Muslim. He says he is getting increasingly stifled and claustrophobic with all the dictates and the strictness and says that rather than enjoy being one with a benevolent God, he is feeling traumatized by what he is increasingly seeing as a very hard and demanding and vindictive God. He says there is a punishment for everything in the Quran, for the most banal of things if you deviate even an iota from the written word, and what is worse, almost everything regardless of magnitude of perceived misdemeanor brings with it the threat of burning in eternal Hell. And it does not end there. Hell is described pretty graphically and in detail as well. All different kinds of Hell. I just kept listening and as a Hindu I did not really know how to respond.

 

[Hyperion]

And here we have a genocidal mullah....

Does anyone remember Chacha Hypey's: Types Of Mullahs 1.0?

Liberalism in Pakistan is nothing more than name of those funded by kafirs and who are enemies of Islam and to busy in attacking Islam not only in Pakistan they are in small minority in every Muslim country but soon even that minority would be made history for ever

 

[F86 Saber]

I refrain from entering these debates in fear of being branded a "kafir", however i will quote Allama Iqbal on this,

Allah se kare dur to ta'leem bhi fitna
Aulad bhi, amlaak bhi, jageer bhi fitna.
Na haq ke liye utthe to shamshir bhi fitna
Shamshir hi kya, nara-e-takbir bhi fitna

I pray (or try my best to)five times a day, fast for the whole month of Ramadan, avoid "Geebat", avoid lieing and never physically hurt a human being. Yet i do not carry a beard, never worn shalwar kameez, I listen to music and watch movies, not in favor of forcing hijab on women in fact i am in favor of allowing them to wear whatever they want and practice it in my family.

I consider myself being a liberal..... what do you think?

 

[Iggy]

Same question Can a Hindu denounce all his thousands of gods and NEVER bow to an idol? Why on earth would we want to bow to ANYTHING or ANYONE else except 1 true GOD? esp when we have taken an oath that we believe in NO OTHER GOD BUT ALLAH ...Maybe for other religions their oath means nothing...but for us it is the principal of our faith!

Why should some one has to denounce their belief to respect other religion? I have seen Hindus coming to a Christian church for praying.. For them its an another form of the God they believe.. There is a Muslim mosque in Kerala where Hindu people go before they went to pilgrimage to Sabrimala, one of their Holy Places in Kerala.. It does not mean that they denounce their god.. But it shows that they give equal respect to other religions also..

PS: I am sure, I will get answers like Babri Masjid and RSS... Take it in a right spirit!!

Plus when you visit a president, PM or King, why do you bow your head in respect? Based on his position? Well for us GOD is above all...so based on that we will NEVER bow to anyone or anything else!

I do not know what is wrong with bowing heads in front of elders for showing respect..Anyway its your belief and your personal choice.. Our culture teach us Mata Pita Guru Dhaivam.. Means Father, Mother and Teacher is equal to God.. Its what we Christians learn in Sunday Schools also.. If you cannot respect your father, mother or Teacher who you see everyday, you cannot respect the God who you dont see at all..

This is just like Roman Christians who say everything is fine...Anay do...like they even allowed Saint worship which originated from the fact that they had Roman deities and were used to worshiping human (Roman Gods) and not an unseen GOD...

I dont know where you get this idea that RC saying everything is fine.. You should read the Genesis chapter of the bible. It scared the shiTT out of me.. And for saint worshipping, we are not worshipping them, we are asking them to pray for us.. RC's and many other Christian organisation believes that those saints have done a lot of sacrifices for the God, their prayers will get answered faster than us.. I for one do not believe in it though

 

[Dubious]

This seems to be your own version of Islam. Those Christians to whom you criticize gave world everything you can see and use today. They allowed reforms to be carried out. They rejected everything which they found illogical even Bible also.

You see that is the problem...When you self author a book and declare it to be god's words (by editing deleting as you said)....it looses its divine purpose and becomes man made! As for what they practice now ...is up to them to call it Christianity

They do not declare anybody anti christian if his thoughts found contradicting Bible and do not kill them.

check Templar knights!

That is why they are there where they should have been and you are there where you should have been.

Well, ask them why they burned libraries of the MUSLIM world , steal some books during the crusades?!

Kindly read up and get your facts right!

And why does a liberal have to bow to idols to prove he or she is a liberal?! That is ridiculous! You dont bow to ALLAH...so by the same definition you are NOT a liberal!

 

[Dubious]

Why should some one has to denounce their belief to respect other religion? I have seen Hindus coming to a Christian church for praying.. For them its an another form of the God they believe.. There is a Muslim mosque in Kerala where Hindu people go before they went to pilgrimage to Sabrimala, one of their Holy Places in Kerala.. It does not mean that they denounce their god.. But it shows that they give equal respect to other religions also..

PS: I am sure, I will get answers like Babri Masjid and RSS... Take it in a right spirit!!

@seiko lets start from the beginning...OUR FAITH literally is a promise to GOD we will not BOW to ANYONE but HIM...Do you want us to break this promise just to make HUMANS happy? What if we die tomorrow after making other humans happy...how will we face OUR GOD? No religion does this but we do it because we hold our religion sacred + we have rules to live like countries have rules to live...you need visa, you are not allowed certain things because the govt labels these illegal and so on...You will rather listen to govt (and avoid doing illegal things) over GOD (and do which is forbidden like bowing to other gods)?! I am sorry but I find that REALLY funny!

There is respect as in I will not bash your religion...I will ask questions which strictly are for the purpose of comparing as you did...but I will not bash it! I can very well if need be but my respect is not to bash...I will give examples if provoked but wont laugh at your belief because Islam doesnt teach me that!

I do not know what is wrong with bowing heads in front of elders for showing respect..Anyway its your belief and your personal choice.. Our culture teach us Mata Pita Guru Dhaivam.. Means Father, Mother and Teacher is equal to God.. Its what we Christians learn in Sunday Schools also.. If you cannot respect your father, mother or Teacher who you see everyday, you cannot respect the God who you dont see at all..

That makes sense. But like I said we have a promise not to bow in front of a human, an idol or ANYTHING EXCEPT GOD...

You dont have to bow to someone to show respect...Here in the West we nod our head to show we notice...But no one will bow to you even if you are CEO or President!

I dont know where you get this idea that RC saying everything is fine.. You should read the Genesis chapter of the bible. It scared the shiTT out of me.. And for saint worshipping, we are not worshipping them, we are asking them to pray for us.. RC's and many other Christian organisation believes that those saints have done a lot of sacrifices for the God, their prayers will get answered faster than us.. I for one do not believe in it though

I was just giving an example of RC because it is 1 of the most practiced sect in the West...though others are emerging quickly too...We have a sect in Islam which claims saints are purer or holier and some go and ask them to pray as their prayers will be answered faster...I do not see it that way as in the Quran ALLAH said you ask me I will give...why go to other people when ALLAH HIMSELF said HE will give and HE is the giver!

Sorry if I offended in you any way!

This thread become nuswar thread now

I respect the way you answer with a cool mind! I am hot headed

 

[Ayush]

Recently a Muslim friend of mine really took me by surprise and frankly shocked me by saying that he has told his father that he does not want to continue to be a Muslim. He says he is getting increasingly stifled and claustrophobic with all the dictates and the strictness and says that rather than enjoy being one with a benevolent God, he is feeling traumatized by what he is increasingly seeing as a very hard and demanding and vindictive God. He says there is a punishment for everything in the Quran, for the most banal of things if you deviate even an iota from the written word, and what is worse, almost everything regardless of magnitude of perceived misdemeanor brings with it the threat of burning in eternal Hell. And it does not end there. Hell is described pretty graphically and in detail as well. All different kinds of Hell. I just kept listening and as a Hindu I did not really know how to respond.

how is hell described??

 

[doppelganger]

how is hell described??

I will have to ask him and get back to you? He said it is pretty graphic and there are various grades of Hell for almost everything.

 

[Ayush]

I will have to ask him and get back to you? He said it is pretty graphic and there are various grades of Hell for almost everything.

so,hell depends on the type of misdeed??

 

[doppelganger]

so,hell depends on the type of misdeed??

Yes. From what I could understand, it could be one big place with many different levels of pain and suffering and heat.

 

[anonymus]

so,hell depends on the type of misdeed??

It is an old christian concept of Ancient origins.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

I am sure this was'nt a faith Vs Faith topic. not sure why people are bashing each other over Mosques & Temples
but about a mindset of a religious mafiya