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Moscow and Beijing love Pakistan

lol..russians are not chinese to copy everything they see :P
russia can make a stealth chopper on their own :D

great, continue.

be fed with more western smoking. and this is making you retarded.

we see many intelligent and insightful indian members here, and also some nerds like you.
 
In one of the biggest blunders of his presidency President Obama took full credit for the Osama raid. In doing so he disparaged the most pro-American government in Islamabad. Obama increased his popularity rating by a few notches by throwing Pakistan under the bus. This sort of theatrics may work in the Chicago crime family , but in international relations this sort of Ramboism just doesn’t work. Obama may have gained a few point in the poll rankings, but President Obama may not have thought this through. The raid on Abbotabad displays an IQ of 7, or a deep rooted plan to humiliate and and embarrass the Pakistan government and by extension the Army and the ISI. The Bharatis are having a field day with “I told you sos”.

Indeed, the humiliation was so well planned, so calculated that it seems a point of no return has been reached. So far, NOT ONE evidence has been provided of the official Pakistani 'complicity' and, as @Agno has pointed out various times in this forum, even the 'incompetence' charge may not apply.
One may perhaps forgive the corporate American media for following their official govt. line but for L. Panetta to come boasting about the reason for going solo against OBL by saying that the Pakistanis may have 'tipped off' about the raid has done incalculable damage to the US-Pak relationship.
 
pakistan foreign policy has also been f ucked up .I think we made a huge mistake fighting the soviets in afghanistan should have just remained neutral and never got involved and just let the war it run it's course and let the soviets take over all it did in the long run was get us played and make us jihadi central .
 
pakistan foreign policy has also been f ucked up .I think we made a huge mistake fighting the soviets in afghanistan should have just remained neutral and never got involved and just let the war it run it's course and let the soviets take over all it did in the long run was get us played and make us jihadi central .

Yes! we did, cuz we had sellouts that time as well as now ..so keepon sleeping till we be burried alive in our graves...by the handz of these sellouts...but dont worry they will go in the graves too...Insha-Allah no exceptionz for them either.they will learn their lessonz from Devil very well.....:what:
 
pakistan foreign policy has also been f ucked up .I think we made a huge mistake fighting the soviets in afghanistan should have just remained neutral and never got involved and just let the war it run it's course and let the soviets take over all it did in the long run was get us played and make us jihadi central .

Well said !! In effect you should have followed a policy similar to India. Just mind your own business and let the rest of the world mind theirs. Not too late for Pakistan to do that yet. Not too late to tell the rest of the world to fobb off whilst you start rebuilding your own house. Pity that most Pakistanis would never support a government which will try and sell that policy. For starters too many of your military generals will have to live off a commander's salary and that would result in dire impoverishment for them
 
No, that isn't what is going to happen. The support WILL be qualified; the Chinese will not permit Pakistan to pull its tail.

America showed great patience before and competence during the Abbottabad raid. The competence everyone knows about. The patience part people don't: for over twelve years and three U.S. presidents and multiple Pakistani leaders Pakistan had promised to deliver bin Laden. That's right, even when Bill Clinton was president and OBL was in Afghanistan. Pakistan promised but did nothing and eventually even disbanded the P.A. unit dedicated to looking for bin Laden. No surprise, then, that when U.S. officials strongly suspected - with some evidence - that bin Laden was comfortably ensconced in the bosom of the Pakistani military that they concluded Pakistan had either been lying to them or continued to boast, "No Osama here!" to cover up their own ignorance.

I don't doubt that traveling Pakistani officials are greeted with smiles in Moscow and Beijing . A smile is what's left when people try to restrain their mirth and relief. Didn't the Abbottabad episode demonstrate that a devious Pakistan is not to be feared nor (as the U.S. demonstrated) respected? After a while they may tire of the amusement and lose interest in their Pakistani guests entirely.

Maybe 10-20 years down the line we may know what truly happened in Abbottabad and it may be quite a different picture than what we have seen to date.
However i shall assume that it was indeed what it was claimed to be and OBL was killed in that raid as a result of a unilateral operation by USA and Pakistan only found out later.

So what does this prove?
The notion that the Pakistani state hid the murderer of thousands of Pakistanis deliberately is retarded when we see the cost of the terrorism and war against terrorism in terms of lives and economy.
The fact that Al Qaeda has been hitting Pakistan is quite openly known.
The role of Pakistan Army in killing and capturing Al Qaeda leaders and operatives is equally documented and does prove that Pakistan is fighting against Al Qaeda.
To ponder openly in an accusing manner in front of world media as to why and how OBL was living in Abbottabad near the military is something pathetic since all the while the tone taken by US officials was one which was just short of openly declaring ISI as complicit in hiding OBL.
The call traces were run by ISI which eventually identified the courier.
The accusation against ISI is uncalled for since if it indeed was such a double dealing agency and was betraying its own country, it could at least have done a better job at hiding OBL and certainly would not have handed over phone call records and traces to CIA, which eventually led to Operation Geronimo.
But then again it is preposterous to even consider that ISI would protect OBL at the cost of itself, its country, its people...and yet this is what is implied by our Ally.

The fact that this notion exists in minds of people like you and is also reiterated by some responsible people in USA as a concern clearly tells me that this so called alliance has run its course, there is no trust and respect in this relationship and unless there is a miracle soon...i expect this relationship to end.
I guess it is better for both countries this way.

According to you the operation against OBL in Abbottabad proves that USA is the most competent and patient of allies.

I have respect for your troops and never disrespect any professional soldier or hardworking civilian of any country...however one thing i can never digest, especially since you are so proud of the competency and patience displayed by your state.

Tell me one thing...why did USA attack Afghanistan?
It was to capture or kill OBL, right?
So Was it the double dealing devious Pakistan who let the murderer of so many innocent US citizens walk off Scott free when they had him surrounded in Tora Bora?

Competence and patience?
My a**!
There have been many mistakes made in this war against terror.

I do not blame your troops nor would I ever degrade them, they will give their lives for USA and are professional and dedicated soldiers.
I am though, very doubtful of the motives of the policy makers and decision makers.
I am quite sick of USA being painted as above criticism and devoid of selfish motives while it moves around the world opening so many fronts.
Extremism is on the rise and not in decline.
The more war and destabilization is created, the more these bloody terrorists win.

Where is the accountability/explanation USA demands of its allies but is unwilling to offer itself?
What scandal befell USA when OBL escaped Tora Bora?
How many heads rolled and how many inquiries were made into the events surrounding this stupendous blunder?
What sort of failure should it be called?
To launch a war for capture of one person and then surround him and still fail to nab him?
What sort of questions does it raise to date in the media and society of USA?
Nothing much as i have seen, all was forgotten and forgiven almost immediately by the media and world.
Even 9/11 was a huge intelligence failure, but once you set out to capture this one man...even then you failed.
Not because he hid in Pakistan, no sir...he was there in front of you.
Yet you failed and the war continued for another decade.
But god forbid if someone raises questions on this blunder, he is told that OBL was USA's enemy so to think that it was deliberate is retarded.
Yet same is applied to Pakistani military, intelligentsia and government and sticks in the western media and state departments.

I am sure that Tora Bora was all fault of your Afghan allies, just like today it is the fault of Pakistan.
"Someone Else's fault" is indeed a syndrome in this part of the world due to the massive deprivation, poverty and lack of education.
However, it seems the USA suffers from it as well.
USA is all competent and so patient in its 100% pure and selfless cause, yet surrounded by double dealing devils who are looking after other impure interests.

Yes Afghanistan and Pakistan have made many mistakes and i am sure have their many flaws;I have always openly blamed both countries and their leadership and society for their mistakes.

However to pretend that you alone are driven by pure motivations and are the only one capable of not making blunders is far from the truth and reeks of arrogance and self denial.
Your foreign policy mistakes, intelligence failures of gigantic proportions, covert/overt OPs in foreign countries (Bay of Pigs ring a bell?) and many military ventures all over the world still do not raise much hue and cry in your local media, so you carry on pretending it is all good in the hands of the competent USA?
The fact that your government/media covers all this sh*t up does not make it the one and only truth.
 
When did China move?
Sunzi say: The best commander are not those that can win war, but those that can win a war without fighting.

Even without doing anything, China has gain more friends, that is why China can become so strong today. How can they beat what is as unmovable as a mountain?

let those that desire the mountain's protection come to it... see who dare to attack up "the mountain", China is the ultimate "camper".
:yahoo:
 
I'll be very honest....

this whole ''best buddies'' and ''love'' talk is getting a big weird. We're allies. Our people view eachother fondly and our cooperation in military and civilian fields is immense.....one that benefits both sides. That is undeniable.



this whole emotional lovey-dovey talk, on the other hand, is a bit cheesy......
 
Hi, can we sticky All-Greens post?

it was so beautifully and cogently written that i felt aroused.... :bunny:
 
Pakistan has become a country of nothing but BLOOD SHED and TERROR....

I wish India had still kept Pakistan when we got our independence, we have made a great mistake by letting religion separate us Brothers and Sisters...
Pakitan will and already is a bloody play ground for U.S. , China, and Russia... These countries will menace pakistan... and destroy the intergreity and secularity of Pakistan...

CHINA Is no ally of Pakistan.... and Russia or U.S. are not allies of INDIA.... in reality no one is there to protect ourselves but US... CHINA will turn it's back on Pakistan like, It has on North Korea...
PLEASE PAKISTAN REALIZE THIS AND kick U.S. out of your country, and Keep China away from your politics...

FROM A HINDU BROTHER I THINK PAKISTAN HAS SUFFERED ENOUGH ECONOMICALLY, and it has lost enough with innocene lives being the TARGET OF STUPID DRONES!!!

INDIA AND PAKISTAN Were ONCE TOGETHER, and we share the SAME ANCIENT ETHNIC BACKGROUND... and i don't wany my brothers and sisters to suffer, Indians and Pakistanis look alike, why do we fight each other...

How did China turn against the North Koreans? It was in fact them who caused tension with the South and even then China refused to condemn them. China urged them to attend for 6 party peace talk in Beijing and guess what happened? North Korea refused. For a relationship to prosper it has to go both ways. I appreciate your concerns and your post demonstrated a degree of honesty. However, please refrain from misleading the readers unless you have full awareness of the facts relating to these issues.

Let me also correct you. China and Pakistan are still friends, allies, trade partners and political backers as we speak. We may not share the same 'ancient ethnic backgrounds' but China alone has 56 different ethnicities therefore being the same or not clearly isn't the issue. The issue is we have enjoyed eachothers company, support, developed and experienced mutual interests. It takes a degree of loyalty to maintain such level of friendships.

I won't comment on the issues seperating India and Pakistan. However like yourself, I would also like to see peace between the two brothers.
 
How did China turn against the North Koreans? It was in fact them who caused tension with the South and even then China refused to condemn them. China urged them to attend for 6 party peace talk in Beijing and guess what happened? North Korea refused. For a relationship to prosper it has to go both ways. I appreciate your concerns and your post demonstrated a degree of honesty. However, please refrain from misleading the readers unless you have full awareness of the facts relating to these issues.

Let me also correct you. China and Pakistan are still friends, allies, trade partners and political backers as we speak. We may not share the same 'ancient ethnic backgrounds' but China alone has 56 different ethnicities therefore being the same or not clearly isn't the issue. The issue is we have enjoyed eachothers company, support, developed and experienced mutual interests. It takes a degree of loyalty to maintain such level of friendships.

I won't comment on the issues seperating India and Pakistan. However like yourself, I would also like to see peace between the two brothers.


I don't mean to cause any disrespect, but it is quite a satire, when China mentions peace, where it brutally slaughtered it's own 10,000 + Chinese students on Tianamen square... I hope you get my point, If Red China was so cold hearted on it's own people, one can only imagine how it will react to other nations...

I hope you realize this too, democracy is flawed and stupid, Coruptions of 100 billion dollars were uncovered this year in India, VERY SHAMEFULL offcourse... However, Red China has cleverly turned the good Han people into mindcontrolled red guards of Communism.... I don't mean any disrespect... It is very Clear what China is doing, It has border disputes with every neighbor... (India, Vietnam, Japan, Russia, South Korea, Malayasia, and many more)

I want regional peace, and China clearly is very peacefull culture before the communist regime has taken hold, India + China(reformed China) should make Asian century...
 
Please Also Tell me how else North Korea was capable of developing Nuclear Arms, when it's much more capable twin south Korea cannnot... It is because China has spread Nuke Tech to likes of Rogue states like North Korea, and Now that North Korea is uncontrollable and is facing international scrutiny and Arms/food embargo, China simply withdrew it's orginal stance and let North Korea to wither on its own...
 
I don't mean to cause any disrespect, but it is quite a satire, when China mentions peace, where it brutally slaughtered it's own 10,000 + Chinese students on Tianamen square... I hope you get my point, If Red China was so cold hearted on it's own people, one can only imagine how it will react to other nations...

I would like to see some facts on this, not just some random numbers plucked from the air.

I hope you realize this too, democracy is flawed and stupid, Coruptions of 100 billion dollars were uncovered this year in India, VERY SHAMEFULL offcourse... However, Red China has cleverly turned the good Han people into mindcontrolled red guards of Communism.... I don't mean any disrespect... It is very Clear what China is doing, It has border disputes with every neighbor... (India, Vietnam, Japan, Russia, South Korea, Malayasia, and many more)

I like the way you phrased it. Care to explain how China's Communism turned them into the 2nd largest economy in the world but not India? I thought Democracy is always better and all Communist countries are poor?
In regards to border issues, care to talk about the Bangladeshi border killings and Kashmer issues? This is a classic case of a pot calling kettle black.

I want regional peace, and China clearly is very peacefull culture before the communist regime has taken hold, India + China(reformed China) should make Asian century...

Or you can say, the old India was more peaceful than the reformed India. Don't try and be a smart about difference of Ideologies. They all have its ups and downs - End of. If India wants to succeed and get to China's level, then it better start respecting its neighbours and stop throwing rocks in a glass house.
 
Please Also Tell me how else North Korea was capable of developing Nuclear Arms, when it's much more capable twin south Korea cannnot... It is because China has spread Nuke Tech to likes of Rogue states like North Korea, and Now that North Korea is uncontrollable and is facing international scrutiny and Arms/food embargo, China simply withdrew it's orginal stance and let North Korea to wither on its own...

Lets make sure you get your facts straight. The embargo was enforced well before the slight change of relationship. The government of China still cares about North Korea despite recent set backs. You cannot blame China either for North Korea's reluctance to fully co-operate. Relationships doesn't work that way. It's give and take. Should China not look after the North Koreans, do you not think they would be invaded by the Americans already? Personally I do not agree with food embargo, that is inhumane and goes against the very human right that the 'demoncratic world' preach.
 
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