MMRCA Fighter deal bigger: 126 will rise to 260

[sancho]

Some basic points we have to keep in mind!

1) IAF is very happy with Mig 29s and Mirage 2000, that's why they upgrade them so extensively. Dassault offered even a less comprehensive upgrade, for lower costs and we all know that there was an offer from Israel as well, but IAF refuesed, so all talk about MMRCAs replacing M2K upgrade is pointless!

2) If we would increase MMRCA numbers, to reduce numbers of older fighters to be upgraded, we obviously don't choose one of your most capable fighters to be phased out, but one of the least capable fighters. That means any increase of MMRCA numbers, will decrease the numbers of Jaguars to be upgraded, because they are limited to ground attack only.

3) There was always an option of 64, or even 74 MMRCA reported, which means it shouldn't be surprising in we go for more, but I highly doubt that anything above them would be only for IAF.
Once because of the time we would need to produce them, while inducting even more capable 5. gen aircrafts at the same time. Secondly, because MMRCA is not aimed on replacing big numbers of older fighters, but on increase capabilities and mainly on side advantages (ToT, offsets, strategic, diplomatic).

4 ) Depending on how reliable this source is, it could also mean a rise of MMRCAs, including the naval MMRCAs for IN carriers. Even if we take the minimum numbers of both competitions, we would be at 166 fighters, add some optionals and you easily get to 200+.

 

[WHITESMOKE]

Initially we order only 50 odd MKIs but now we place order for more than 300 so why this is so surprising for all of us ?????

Here i agree with you. At the end, order will go well beyond 200. The political effect/lobbying this deal is showing, is enough proof for this. Every contender knows that it will be a huge contract at the end thats why everyone is trying so hard. On the other hand Russia is already compensated by many other deals. The chances of 2 winners are also high now.

 

[prototype]

F&%K ME!! Pardon my language but... I mean I knew India was going to be a future major power but I thought that would be 20_40 years down the line.

It seems India is starting to put its money where its mouth is-
-1000s of state of the art fighters for the IAFin the next 2 decades.
-3-5 CBGs with 100s of fighters
-LArge numbers of subs (SSN+SSBs+Diesel-electric)
-HUGE new improvments to SO capability of Indian SOFs
and much more!!

Purchasing some swanky weapon's dont make us a power,for that we need a better economy,more and more people pulled out of poverty and definitely indigenous technology.

 

[WHITESMOKE]

su-30s are bought to counter the f-16s of pak Af.initially a small batch were ordered but after seeing the performance IAF further ordered in huge numbers.

But this MMRCA deal is totally different from that MKI deal.here a specified no of planes are being ordered(just to fill the vacuum due to the retired MigS & due to delay of tejas),may be in future extra 50 could ordered but 260 is much higher no..

why we need such a large no of 4.5 G palnes.instead we could order more FGPA (400) !!! i think there is not much price diff between MMRCA & FGPA fighters.

If pakistan could be the reason for more SU, then why not china for more MMRCA???

 

[GORKHALI]

self delete

 

[GORKHALI]

Dnt compare AMCA with Tejas time frame .
Tejas is our first attempt so case is totally different

Actually 2017 bit ambitious to be honest,looking at HAL previous record am not expecting AMCA by 2017, 2019 is optimistic time ,when they gonna come up with a prototype of AMCA and atleast 5 years to achieve IOC say 2025 and FOC in 2028(if everything goes well ) ,so we can expect 1st SQN of AMCA in 2030...

Timeline
1>DESIGN SANCTIONED BY AF ASR ON 2012.
2>1st prototype start appearing in media from 2018 and 2019 will be official comes to spotlight.
3>1st maiden flight in one year say 2020
4>IOC will recieved after 5-6 years
5>FOC by 2028
6>1st full SQN by 2028-29

 

[blackops]

well as i have posted above upgrading cost of our mirage is too high and there seems to be no more negotiation about the deal (fir the price ) so it is better to go for new and mature jets the best combination can be typhoon for both as an interceptor as well as an air superiority with the mki and f18 for deep strike missions with our mirage 2000 best combo phase out mig 21 and 27

 

[Kinetic]

I will wait for more reports to believe it. Maximum 160 fighters and after that new induction should be full 5th gen fighters, no more 4th gen++.

 

[Whiplash]

Dnt compare AMCA with Tejas time frame .
Tejas is our first attempt so case is totally different

Lolwut?
Fine.. Compare it to F-35. Planes do take 7-8 years ti get all their subsystems in place. Ambition is good. But not delusion

 

[tallboy123]

i think we dont want more 4th gen plane than 126...
We should have 5gen..

 

[Kinetic]

Lolwut?
Fine.. Compare it to F-35. Planes do take 7-8 years ti get all their subsystems in place. Ambition is good. But not delusion

Why are you comparing F-35 with LCA? How many years F-35 taking?

 

[baker]

I will wait for more reports to believe it. Maximum 160 fighters and after that new induction should be full 5th gen fighters, no more 4th gen++.

am just curious abt this... the 5th gen fighter that we are discussing about here need to overcome several obstacles like
1:first of all even though the prototype is ready it will defenetily required lot of modifications before entering to production line..
2:once it is over , it doesnt mean we can induct in to force ,our IAF guys will do the serious evaluation for sure and this will certainly take time
3:and considering the suggestions from IAF to make adapt to our doctrine again there will be some changes

i believe this whole cycle will take some time... so my point here is we can not completely get rid of our dependency on 4/4.5 gen fighter until 2025..
so it is always better to increase the strength with mki,mmrca and fulcrums...

just my thoughts

 

[Archie]

India's needs are different.. And I do believe it is reducing the fighter types.. just the MMRCA replacing no less than 4 jets.. I think...

Well mmrca is actually meant to replace 2 Fighters
Earlier it was meant to replace just the 100 odd Mig27 , a few days back there was news that IAF has decided to upgrade only 60 of its 140 Jaguars rather than the previously espected 120 , So my guess is that additional mmrca could replace there 80 odd Jaguars

Some reports have even stated that MOD is not happy with the price quoted by Dessault for the Mirage 2000 upgrade
Many people within the MOD actually believe that it is better to buy 30- 40 more mmrca than to upgrade 51 odd mirage 2000

So there is a high chance that 200+ mmrca could replace 230 odd Mig27 , Jaguars and Mirage 2000 currently in service
while another 50 mmrca could be acquired by Navy

 

[Skull and Bones]

Going for more MMRCA is really a welcome decision, we need these aircraft just like tomorrow. Bdw 4++ aircrafts are not obsolete as many members think here in this forum. Even USAF is going for F-15 silent eagle and F-18 super hornet, 5th gen aircraft has limitations in terms of payload.
And no matter how much 5th gen aircrafts we are going to induct, we won't be getting it before 2018 in significant number, so going for more 4++ aircraft is easily feasible to fill the stop gap.

 

[Kinetic]

am just curious abt this... the 5th gen fighter that we are discussing about here need to overcome several obstacles like
1:first of all even though the prototype is ready it will defenetily required lot of modifications before entering to production line.

Thats rite. Take an example of a 5th gen fighter PAK FA which will be operational in 2017 only. So we can have mass production line up from 2020 onwards.

2:once it is over , it doesnt mean we can induct in to force ,our IAF guys will do the serious evaluation for sure and this will certainly take time

That will be done before induction into the IAF ie when it is fully ready. IAF or test pilot will try and test the fighter in all ways before it goes to induction.

3:and considering the suggestions from IAF to make adapt to our doctrine again there will be some changes

The aircraft will be according to IAF doctrine thats how IAF started working on FGFA and AMCA. Thats why IAF is part of the project from start.

i believe this whole cycle will take some time... so my point here is we can not completely get rid of our dependency on 4/4.5 gen fighter until 2025..
so it is always better to increase the strength with mki,mmrca and fulcrums...

just my thoughts

Of course 4.5 gen fighters will rule until 2025 as they will be under production till 2020. So why do we need more than 160/170 MRCA? We can produce these in between 2014 to 2020. I think that should be enough as FGFA will go for full rate production by that time and AMCA will be around the corner.