Mirage 2000 upgrade talks begin

[koushik]

then why IAF decided to equip LCA with Derby ?

If you look closely then both the Indian Navy's upgraded Sea Harriers and the Air Force's Tejas Mk-1 use the Elta EL/M -2032 as their radar and the Derby BVRAAM as their main BVR missile so i think that there must be some relation like using of Israeli missiles on Israeli Radars to have an easy integration.secondly in the Mirage upgrade deal MBDA were the main weapons integrator so the MICA was offered but in case of Tejas the Astra wasnt ready so Derby was used as stop gap measure.

 

[MumbaiIndians]

VIP planes are not for military uses but they are not like civilian aircraft either. They have special equipments. Its look like all the military aircraft deals are delayed not the VIP.

VIP aircrafts are not used in war. They have no military role. There is no comparison.

 

[foxbat]

c-17 deal to USA

Mirage 2000 upgrade deal to france

and EF from UK,germany,italy and spain

indeed indians are very expert in keeping foriegn relation balanced

EF is not the declared winner of MRCA and IMO, it wont be..

 

[luckyyy]

1 MICA Missile blows up $3 million. 100 pieces cost $300 million.

Also, it can't be integrated onto Su-30MKI, LCA or planes other than Mirage, because France has refused to transfer codes. Benefit of your own missiles(ASTRA etc.) is, you can fit onto any platform.

I am not against buying MICA but its waste of money. It doesn't give you any returns. Better use half of that money on improving R&D infrastructure in domestic universities who are starving for funds and better resources, facilities.

in that respect why not put the same 2032 radar on mirage and integrate derby on mirage..
anyway in the article IAF officials did talk about legal blockages ..

 

[Kinetic]

then why not derby on mirage ?

It was an option but IAF went for MICA. May be because it was already integrated with Mirage-2000 and a French missile. There might be some sort of understanding.

 

[Kinetic]

VIP aircrafts are not used in war. They have no military role. There is no comparison.

If you read the posts perfectly will understand that I am not comparing them but comparing their sales and how fast one is cleared and another got delayed.

 

[luckyyy]

[..........

 

[koushik]

then why not derby on mirage ?

In the Mirage 2000 upgrade, MBDA were the main weapons integrator so going by the guidelines of the deal IAF would have to MICA which is offered by MBDA.

 

[Bang Galore]

I am hearing about this Mirage-2000 upgrade deal for last six years. They still could not finalize it because they do not care. If it was for VIPs, the deal would have been super fast one.

Not so simple. The price quoted by the French is exorbitant. Made sense to wait for the MMRCA contract to be decided so as to put some more pressure on the French. The upgradation must make economic sense.

 

[koushik]

in that respect why not put the same 2032 radar on mirage and integrate derby on mirage..
anyway in the article IAF officials did talk about legal blockages ..

my friend the Mirage upgrade will be performed by France and under this deal Thales are the avionics, electronics integrator and the MBDA as the main weapons therefore going by the rules of the deal the new Thales RDY-3 radar would be integrated along with the MICA on the Mirage 2000 MK2.If mirage 2000 upgraded was to be negotiated with the Israelis then perhaps the Elta 2032 would have been used along with Derby.

 

[luckyyy]

my friend the Mirage upgrade will be performed by France and under this deal Thales are the avionics, electronics integrator and the MBDA as the main weapons therefore going by the rules of the deal the new Thales RDY-3 radar would be integrated along with the MICA on the Mirage 2000 MK2.If mirage 2000 upgraded was to be negotiated with the Israelis then perhaps the Elta 2032 would have been used along with Derby.

if the Mirage upgrade has to be be performed by France only , there won't be any legal blockages ..

 

[Kinetic]

i even heard that HAL want to do the whole upgrade by itself , it was the legal clouse in the contect which blocking them...

Yes there was some legal clause raised by France but HAL could not do all the necessary upgrades required without OEM. HAL could have upgrade the avionics, cockpit radar etc but integration of new radar, missiles, airframe modifications, engine etc are not easy.

 

[MumbaiIndians]

If you look closely then both the Indian Navy's upgraded Sea Harriers and the Air Force's Tejas Mk-1 use the Elta EL/M -2032 as their radar and the Derby BVRAAM as their main BVR missile so i think that there must be some relation like using of Israeli missiles on Israeli Radars to have an easy integration.secondly in the Mirage upgrade deal MBDA were the main weapons integrator so the MICA was offered but in case of Tejas the Astra wasnt ready so Derby was used as stop gap measure.

Advantage of having your own LCA is that now, even EL/M - 2032 will have Indian components. This is not the case with radar on Harrier.

LCA has changed a lot of "attitudes" in foreign suppliers. Now they know, we can pull them off when time comes. Same change in attitude came from Snecma who is now suddenly interested in joining GTRE-Kaveri project after it passed ground tests in Russia and had successful flight tests in November last year.

Good for those IAF types though(morons who are now standing behind successful LCA to hide their mistakes of closing down Marut funding). LCA will give them more bargaining power.

 

[koushik]

if the Mirage upgrade has to be be performed by France only , there won't be any legal blockages ..

The main hurdle in the Mirage upgrade is the price tag a whopping 2.2 billion dollars which is very high.but the way things are going now it would be finalized very soon.

 

[luckyyy]

The main hurdle in the Mirage upgrade is the price tag a whopping 2.2 billion dollars which is very high.but the way things are going now it would be finalized very soon.

IAF chief PV Naik had said that differences over price and legal issues had blocked progress,