Military's role in the identity of Pakistan

[DESERT FIGHTER]

oh oh... that was not my intention...

I have understood that yes, there is punjabi "dominance" but it's not coming because "desire of power" or something like this, but because more than 50% of total population of Pakistan is punjabi... so obviously they get more seats in Assembly, more resources...etc

We dont quote our population based on ethnicity... Southern Punjab itself has millions of Baluch and Pakhtuns who settled there centuries ago...

 

[Karla M]

Well it sure looks that way.

If you want to really "study" Pakistan, then only ask Pakistani's, not any one else.

Taking note,
being more careful, thanks!

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Hostile neighbors conduct terrorist operations in Pakistan and then put the blame on those groups? or like they support those groups to desestabilice

Insurgency in Baluchistan... in the old days .. Russia,Iraq were also involved... a large cache of russian made weapons was seized from the Iraqi consulate in islamabad... india.. well it still does...

 

[Karla M]

We dont quote our population based on ethnicity... Southern Punjab itself has millions of Baluch and Pakhtuns who settled there centuries ago...

let's say pashtun living in south punjabi since he was born....
if he had to choose one to describe himself.. what would it be?pashtun or punjabi?

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Punjabi isnt an ethnicity...more like a heterogeneous society .. with different genetic make up...

let's say pashtun living in south punjabi since he was born....
if he had to choose one to describe himself.. what would it be?pashtun or punjabi?

Hes say hes a Pakhtun.. coz of his ethnicity... even though his ancestors have been living there since centuries... tribes like Babars,Khakwanis etc all speak seriki but are pashtun ethnically.. also Southern Punjab isnt similiar to central punjab .. heck punjab itself is divided .. Photohar region,Central punjab,Southern Punjab.. all have their own cultures n even difference in languages,accents,customs etc..

 

[Karla M]

Punjabi isnt an ethnicity...more like a heterogeneous society .. with different genetic make up...

To a Pakistani...
what is the most important feature for an Identity???
ethnicity or actual residence? or language?? tribe?

is there an actual Punjabi identity? or even a Pakistani?

 

[Zarrar Alvi]

let's say pashtun living in south punjabi since he was born....
if he had to choose one to describe himself.. what would it be?pashtun or punjabi?

i dont know how to expain it to you i mean punjabi is not a caste madam .. i am from southern punjab and i am alvi awan and my wife is from attock and her accent is different from that of mine and she is Malik awan and yes we are punjabi and i call my wife as pahari not punjabi just to tease her coz attock is a border between KPK and punjab both punjabi and pathans live their and our ex ISI chief was from attock

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

To a Pakistani...
what is the most important feature for an Identity???
ethnicity or actual residence? or language?? tribe?

is there an actual Punjabi identity? or even a Pakistani?

Everybody says hes a muslim first... Pakistani later.. if Islam n Pak are set aside... than most people would give importance to their ethnic or tribal/clan identity

Punjab as i said is ethnically,culturally n genetically diverse.... the only definition i (a non punjabi) can give you is... tht if you speak punjabi you are a punjabi...

@Chak Bamu @LoveIcon

These guys whould know more on punjab than me..


As for being a Pakistani... while abroad... or while watching a game...etc we are all Pakistan... the new generation.. we dont actually care about others "ethnicity" .. nor did our elders.. we never had any ethnic riots or anythings..... recent international polls suggest tht we are one of the most racially tolerant country in the world... Pakistanis come in every shapes n sizes.. lol

The central asian looking Gilgits... the Mongol descendants Hazara... Makranis n sheedis = Afro Pakistanis... people of qazalbash,arab,turk,persian ancestory... n us baluch n pakhtuns.. the white looking Kalash people...etc etc

i dont know how to expain it to you i mean punjabi is not a caste madam .. i am from southern punjab and i am alvi awan and my wife is from attock and her accent is different from that of mine and she is Malik awan and yes we are punjabi and i call my wife as pahari not punjabi just to tease her coz attock is a border between KPK and punjab both punjabi and pathans live their and our ex ISI chief was from attock

Jadoons for an example are Pakhtun by origin but punjabi/hindko by culture,language..

P.Sidnt know you were married..

 

[Armstrong]

To a Pakistani...
what is the most important feature for an Identity???
ethnicity or actual residence? or language?? tribe?

is there an actual Punjabi identity? or even a Pakistani?

For a Pakistani, more often than not, religion trumps every other kind of identification !

Pakistan was conceived as a Land where Muslims of the Indian Subcontinent could practice their religion as a Free People therefore for most Pakistanis ethnicity, language, race etc. are of secondary importance.

And a Punjabi is someone who lives on the land known as Punj-Aab (Punjab) which is Persian for 'the Land of the 5 Rivers' !

I mean take my example; I'm an ethnic Kashmiri but my People have been living here in Punjab since they immigrated from Kashmir during the great famine of the 1800s and by now you've got hundreds of thousands of Kashmiris who live in Punjab some who came when during the 1800s whereas others during the Partition of India and Pakistan when Kashmiri Muslims were being butchered in Kashmir !

And all of us are very proud to call ourselves Punjabis in addition to calling ourselves Kashmiris because these two identities aren't mutually exclusive - Punjab is all about ethno-linguistic pluralism and you'd find non-ethnic Punjabis here like myself who are going into the tens of millions !

 

[Zarrar Alvi]

Everybody says hes a muslim first... Pakistani later.. if Islam n Pak are set aside... than most people would give importance to their ethnic or tribal/clan identity

Punjab as i said is ethnically,culturally n genetically diverse.... the only definition i (a non punjabi) can give you is... tht if you speak punjabi you are a punjabi...

@Chak Bamu @LoveIcon

These guys whould know more on punjab than me..


As for being a Pakistani... while abroad... or while watching a game...etc we are all Pakistan... the new generation.. we dont actually care about others "ethnicity" .. nor did our elders.. we never had any ethnic riots or anythings..... recent international polls suggest tht we are one of the most racially tolerant country in the world... Pakistanis come in every shapes n sizes.. lol

The central asian looking Gilgits... the Mongol descendants Hazara... Makranis n sheedis = Afro Pakistanis... people of qazalbash,arab,turk,persian ancestory... n us baluch n pakhtuns.. the white looking Kalash people...etc etc



Jadoons for an example are Pakhtun by origin but punjabi/hindko by culture,language..

P.Sidnt know you were married..

but now u know and married to a ISI spy's daughter and psychologist yara meri class fellow thee when i was in college phr i joined forces and uska baad MH me us se mulakat hui to amma ko bhej dea unka ghar for rishta our mini love story ...

 

[Armstrong]

i dont know how to expain it to you i mean punjabi is not a caste madam .. i am from southern punjab and i am alvi awan and my wife is from attock and her accent is different from that of mine and she is Malik awan and yes we are punjabi and i call my wife as pahari not punjabi just to tease her coz attock is a border between KPK and punjab both punjabi and pathans live their and our ex ISI chief was from attock

Bhabi ko tunnng karnaa busss kar warnaa all of us - her Brothers - will roughen you up !

 

[Zarrar Alvi]

Bhabi ko tunnng karnaa busss kar warnaa all of us - her Brothers - will roughen you up !

hahahhahaha sorry

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

but now u know and married to a ISI spy's daughter and psychologist yara meri class fellow thee when i was in college phr i joined forces and uska baad MH me us se mulakat hui to amma ko bhej dea unka ghar for rishta our mini love story ...

Excellent way to lessen your life expectancy...

 

[Sinnerman108]

thanks!
so
Means military majority of the punjabi is only natural because its share is similar to its population share ...
and Agricultural? also natural because of the rivers?
but now industry has started to rise...I have read about Faisalabad ...is it the only city who is growing in its industry?




Ok ok thanks!
so it's really important to mention water disputes which is directly related to agricultural punjabi dominance... (correct?)

Be careful when you do that; because this will negate earlier assumptions.

One of the most fertile agricultural lands is north west punjab (burhan) along side the River Indus extending upto Nowshehra,

The fertility of this land is only second to south most land (Multan and surroundings).

Kalabagh damn and all politics around it, is a feudal feud. Where people who own the north western lands do not want
to loose it since it will be inundated with water. So they overplay this and create an illusion that all land will be underwater etc etc....

This illusion is then complimented by the Sindhi Feudal lot who then overplay the damn's water storage and claim their lands will become barren.

Both the above are true, but over exaggerated. sindh's land is not fertile enough to be watered on expense of Punjab's more fertile land. Nationalistic approach dictates that Sindh concentrates on industrialization and less on agriculture.
However this does not go well with Feudal lords and their iron grip on resources.

Now, you will use the above argument to understand why the Military is always compelled to take a role in politics.
The military consists of mostly middle class soldiers; who are Over trained for the country.
However these soldiers start to miss the nationalistic leadership which they feel should lead on.
The nationalistic leadership is instead replaced with the same feudal class which I have described above.

Thus that is the impetus of Army jumping in.

It jumps in ... but fails again because of two factors.
a. Bureaucracy ... the Army is not trained in office procedures
b. Feudal ... once out of power, they play the ethnic and separatist cards.

 

[Zarrar Alvi]

Excellent way to lessen your life expectancy...

jealous aap ka b waqt aai ga