Military's role in the identity of Pakistan

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Yaar they have been driven to this stage by "Ethnic" parties from other parts of the country. People from all over the country come to Punjab to try their luck and in hopes for a more prosperous life and Punjab welcomes them with open arms but at the same time, ethnic parties raise enormous allegations about misappropriations in the budget, water distribution, resource allocation, infrastructure, political representation.

A punjabi these days, bears the most electricity loadshedding, the most gas loadshedding, his industry has been destroyed, he is allocated the least unit of water per arable acre in the country and yet he is still pointed at as the extortionist.

Bhai im talking about culture...not all but many... its pathetic..i agree with your both posts...

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

But you have in recent days shown that Ghor was considered the fort of "hindus" by Ghaznawi turks. The countering examples that you have given about Yusufzai being from Hazrat Yusuf or Marwati being a surname in indonesia are irrelevant in this context. There are european people with surname "Butt" in UK and germany but it is 100% sure that kashmiri "Butt" surname is not related to them or vice versa.

The supporting evidence for Lohani being offshouts of Sindhi Lohana is many folds,

(1) Sindh is next door to southern pashtun areas
(2) Sindhi Lohana were known to carry trade between Sindh/Gujarat and central asia (which covers whole afghanistan in
pre-islamic times
(3) Lohani afghans were engaged in the same indo-afghan trade which has been well documented by british historians
(4) The pure merchant class of sindhi Lohanas was called "Bhaiband", Lohani afghans are also called "Pavandah" , striking
similarities between the second nomenclature too
(5) Genetically closest race to pashtuns in pakistan are Sindhis (check Harappadna.com for verification)

Hmmm suris of ghor, who are our cousins, were indeed hindus and lohani were indeed indo-afghan merchants.
May be those lohana sindhis migrated from afghanistan and settled there.

 

[Shahmir]

Yes, that's correct. The Pakistani meaning of the term Punjabi has evolved into a geographical identity more than a cultural or linguistic one which is why there is a steep decline in the Punjabi speaking population especially in the urban areas. Whereas in India, the Punjabi ethnic and linguistic identity is quite cemented and occupies a visible position in the national web.

Himachalis mainly speak Pahari not Dogri which is a dialect of Hindi, that's not the Pahari of Jammu and Kashmir. Hindi is the official language in Himachal Pradesh.

There are many languages spoken in himachal pradesh but the dominant ethnic group is the dogra the same as in neighboring Jammu region in the west and their language is the dialect of punjabi, they perfectly understand punjabi , ask any dogra rajput from himachal he should tell you the same, Mr aSingh of zetaboards.

 

[Icarus]

Bhai im talking about culture...not all but many... its pathetic..i agree with your both posts...

Yes and I was referring to cultural identity as well, it is that stain of being extortionists that makes Punjabis want to dissociate with their culture. We could honestly use some more Sikhs in Pakistani Punjab, I have not seen a people with more pride in their identity than the Sikhs.

 

[Butchcassidy]

Himachalis mainly speak Pahari not Dogri which is a dialect of Hindi, that's not the Pahari of Jammu and Kashmir. Hindi is the official language in Himachal Pradesh.

Those languages are a dialect of punjabi sir.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

I regretfully have to agree with you here. Educated Punjabis try to shy away from their own language but Pukhtuns have immense pride in their linguistic identity and military history. I am looked at like some sort of Pariah when I try to speak Punjabi whilst wearing a suit on a government event but when I speak with pukhtuns in pushto, I am welcomed with the same encouragement that all individuals who take up the language receive.

What could be reasons for that, does it happened after 1947?

 

[Icarus]

What could be reasons for that, does it happened after 1947?

I can identify two reasons:

1- The immigration of people from other areas diminished the importance of Punjabi language and culture in daily life.
2- The constant charges of misappropriation and extortion made people feel detached from their culture.

 

[INDIC]

Those languages are a dialect of punjabi sir.

I heard they sound similar to Punjabi but put under Hindi.

There are many languages spoken in himachal pradesh but the dominant ethnic group is the dogra the same as in neighboring Jammu region in the west and their language is the dialect of punjabi, they perfectly understand punjabi , ask any dogra rajput from himachal he should tell you the same, Mr aSingh of zetaboards.

LOL I never heard Himachalis calling themselves as Dogras, they refer themselves as Paharis. Dogras mainly live in Jammu and Kashmir.

 

[Shahmir]

What could be reasons for that, does it happened after 1947?

Punjabis are just practical people, they always try to transform themselves with the time. As far as language is considered some nations are fanatic about it others are simply not. In europe for example where I live germans and scandanavians are perfectly ok to speak english with foreigners without any problem. But french are quite fanatic about their language and will not speak in english to a foreigner in france even when they can perfectly speak it. It changes from nation to nation.

 

[Thorough Pro]

Troll Alert !!!

Looks like a disguised indian trying to flare up ethnicity on the forum. Thesis my ***

Hi Everyone!
Alright, I am a mexican student writing my thesis about military's role in the identity of Pakistan
there's a chapter where i am to describe each of the provinces and how they work and type of divisions..etc

So, to begin with...Punjab

I had suggested to include talking about landlords (Chaudhury¿?) and I was suggested to write about Punjabization

Just now I am learning how Punjab itself is so diverse .... I used to think that being a Punjabi was one and only identity...

how would you suggest to explain Punjab?

• starting by the regions.... ¿? as I was told by @Armstrong:

"Punjab is divided into the heavily populated, relatively prosperous and industrialized Central Punjab and the peripheries of Southern, South-Western, Northern and North-Western parts of Punjab which are less developed, less populated and less prosperous"

• ethnic and linguistic differences
• Punjab and its place in Assembly (seats given by population, which would explain the importance of Punjab in the government)
• Punjabization ..... or de-punjabization as I was told by @Pak-one
• internal issues (would this include landlords and kinship in politics ¿?)

What else would be worth mentioning? what am i missing? or what other focus can i give?

Muchas gracias in advance!

 

[Shahmir]

I heard they sound similar to Punjabi but put under Hindi.



LOL I never heard Himachalis calling themselves as Dogras, they refer themselves as Paharis. Dogras mainly live in Jammu and Kashmir.

No many dogra rajputs live in himachal pradesh too, bihari bhayya you should be more knowledgeable about your country.

 

[DRaisinHerald]

I have a feeling this Karla dude is a troll as well..
Any mods wanna do an IP check? @Aeronaut @Emmie @jaibi @Jungibaaz

Look at these idiots, having a go at each other. What degree in Mexico requires you to do a thesis on 'Punjabification'? Would be nice to know.

 

[Shahmir]

I heard they sound similar to Punjabi but put under Hindi.



LOL I never heard Himachalis calling themselves as Dogras, they refer themselves as Paharis. Dogras mainly live in Jammu and Kashmir.

The reason himachlis put their language under hindi was political, they were hindus and did not want to attach themselves to sikhs, it was another two nation theory which led to separation of himachal pradesh from indian punjab. For haryana it was justified to create new state because they were indeed hindi speaker (haryanwi).

 

[INDIC]

What could be reasons for that, does it happened after 1947?

It happened after Hindi-Urdu divide in UP, British first made Urdu the official language of UP-Bihar in 1837 leading to protests from majority Hindus and decades of court cases to recognize Hindi in Devanagari script. In this dispute and court cases, Urdu emerged as a symbol of Muslim identity and nationalism, that was the main reason Urdu was easily accepted in Punjab when British introduced it as an provincial language and Punjabi saw a downfall even after having a very rich medieval literature.

No many dogra rajputs live in himachal pradesh too, bihari bhayya you should be more knowledgeable about your country.

You see I wrote mainly. Doctor se aankh jaanch karwa le.

 

[jatt+gutts]

The reason himachlis put their language under hindi was political, they were hindus and did not want to attach themselves to sikhs, it was another two nation theory which led to separation of himachal pradesh from indian punjab. For haryana it was justified to create new state because they were indeed hindi speaker (haryanwi).

oops ... almost all barbers in Amritsar are himachalis and they consider their language closer to Punjabi than hindi. although some of their younger generation don't even speak himachali and speak hindi they kinda have same problem like Pakistani punjabis