Military's role in the identity of Pakistan

[DESERT FIGHTER]

You are quite 'healthy'.
Why do you think Pashtuns , Afghans make good labourers?. In Qatar , their amir tried to replace pashtun , afghan labourers with sri lankans. Sri lankan labourers couldnt take on hard labour in piercing heat of Qatar and many of them became beyhosh on their very first day. Amir than dropped the idea of replacing pathans. Confirm it from @mafiya.

A malnurished afghani will be tougher than a malnurished sri lankan...tougher terrain also plays an important part.

 

[Icarus]

Hi Everyone!
Alright, I am a mexican student writing my thesis about military's role in the identity of Pakistan
there's a chapter where i am to describe each of the provinces and how they work and type of divisions..etc

So, to begin with...Punjab

I had suggested to include talking about landlords (Chaudhury¿?) and I was suggested to write about Punjabization

Just now I am learning how Punjab itself is so diverse .... I used to think that being a Punjabi was one and only identity...

how would you suggest to explain Punjab?

• starting by the regions.... ¿? as I was told by @Armstrong:

"Punjab is divided into the heavily populated, relatively prosperous and industrialized Central Punjab and the peripheries of Southern, South-Western, Northern and North-Western parts of Punjab which are less developed, less populated and less prosperous"

• ethnic and linguistic differences
• Punjab and its place in Assembly (seats given by population, which would explain the importance of Punjab in the government)
• Punjabization ..... or de-punjabization as I was told by @Pak-one
• internal issues (would this include landlords and kinship in politics ¿?)

What else would be worth mentioning? what am i missing? or what other focus can i give?

Muchas gracias in advance!

When writing about Punjab, you have to first operationalize the term 'Punjabi'.
The term is no longer an ethnic or linguistic identity as it once used to be, as the province is now home to millions of people from other provinces of Pakistan and small communities of Pushtun Afghans, Darri Speaking Afghans, Tajiks, Bengalis, etc.
The role of Chaudarys and bonds of kinship would take hours to explain, in that regard "Pakistan a Hard Country" by Anatol Lieven has some interesting material on kinship and 'chaudrahat' in Punjab.

Oh and 'Punjabization' is considered a politically charged term; your supervisor may object to its use in general context to the province.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

In my opinion there is no such thing is punjabization , punjabis have no respect or regard for their own langauge and culture. There is only one process going, urdufication

 

[Icarus]

In my opinion there is no such thing is punjabization , punjabis have no respect or regard for their own langauge and culture. There is only one process going, urdufication

I regretfully have to agree with you here. Educated Punjabis try to shy away from their own language but Pukhtuns have immense pride in their linguistic identity and military history. I am looked at like some sort of Pariah when I try to speak Punjabi whilst wearing a suit on a government event but when I speak with pukhtuns in pushto, I am welcomed with the same encouragement that all individuals who take up the language receive.

 

[Shahmir]

That span of time is not in hundred years. Evolution is very slow process.

I have checked more resources, height is not considered strictly speaking a genetic recessive trait. I will remove it from my previous post.

 

[INDIC]

When writing about Punjab, you have to first operationalize the term 'Punjabi'.

I heard after partition the Muslims from Haryana and Himachal region of East Punjab migrating to West Punjab became Punjabis in Pakistan, in India people of Haryana and Himachal speak Hindi and consider their dialects as dialects of Hindi.

 

[Shahmir]

You are quite 'healthy'.
Why do you think Pashtuns , Afghans make good labourers?. In Qatar , their amir tried to replace pashtun , afghan labourers with sri lankans. Sri lankan labourers couldnt take on hard labour in piercing heat of Qatar and many of them became beyhosh on their very first day. Amir than dropped the idea of replacing pathans. Confirm it from @mafiya.


Wikipedia. And just speculation. On similar pattren some people speculate that Yousafzai are descendents of hazrat yousaf. Marwati is also a surname in indonesia, does it mean we have links with them?
Marwats and all other lodhi tribes are cousins of ghiljays , and their abode was region stretching from ghor to ghazni

But you have in recent days shown that Ghor was considered the fort of "hindus" by Ghaznawi turks. The countering examples that you have given about Yusufzai being from Hazrat Yusuf or Marwati being a surname in indonesia are irrelevant in this context. There are european people with surname "Butt" in UK and germany but it is 100% sure that kashmiri "Butt" surname is not related to them or vice versa.

The supporting evidence for Lohani being offshouts of Sindhi Lohana is many folds,

(1) Sindh is next door to southern pashtun areas
(2) Sindhi Lohana were known to carry trade between Sindh/Gujarat and central asia (which covers whole afghanistan in
pre-islamic times
(3) Lohani afghans were engaged in the same indo-afghan trade which has been well documented by british historians
(4) The pure merchant class of sindhi Lohanas was called "Bhaiband", Lohani afghans are also called "Pavandah" , striking
similarities between the second nomenclature too
(5) Genetically closest race to pashtuns in pakistan are Sindhis (check Harappadna.com for verification)

 

[Icarus]

I heard after partition the Muslims from Haryana and Himachal region of East Punjab migrating to West Punjab became Punjabis in Pakistan, in India people of Haryana and Himachal speak Hindi and consider their dialects as dialects of Hindi.

Yes, that's correct. The Pakistani meaning of the term Punjabi has evolved into a geographical identity more than a cultural or linguistic one which is why there is a steep decline in the Punjabi speaking population especially in the urban areas. Whereas in India, the Punjabi ethnic and linguistic identity is quite cemented and occupies a visible position in the national web.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

I regretfully have to agree with you here. Educated Punjabis try to shy away from their own language but Pukhtuns have immense pride in their linguistic identity and military history. I am looked at like some sort of Pariah when I try to speak Punjabi whilst wearing a suit on a government event but when I speak with pukhtuns in pushto, I am welcomed with the same encouragement that all individuals who take up the language receive.

To be honest.. Punjabis are the most self hating people in Pak..

 

[Shahmir]

I heard after partition the Muslims from Haryana and Himachal region of East Punjab migrating to West Punjab became Punjabis in Pakistan, in India people of Haryana and Himachal speak Hindi and consider their dialects as dialects of Hindi.

Himachlis speak dogri which is a dialect of punjabi. Haryanwi people speak haryanwi which is a dialect of hindi. Dogri speaking Himachlis are technically punjabis with their dogri dialect. And Haryanwis are considered mohajirs (urdu speakers) , in punjab they are predominantly settled in multan, some in lahore but most of them would be in karachi I believe like other urdu speakers.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

I heard after partition the Muslims from Haryana and Himachal region of East Punjab migrating to West Punjab became Punjabis in Pakistan, in India people of Haryana and Himachal speak Hindi and consider their dialects as dialects of Hindi.

They speak haryanvi etc aswell as punjabi .. my neighbours in hostel are rohtkis ... from rohtak hissar..

 

[Icarus]

To be honest.. Punjabis are the most self hating people in Pak..

Yaar they have been driven to this stage by "Ethnic" parties from other parts of the country. People from all over the country come to Punjab to try their luck and in hopes for a more prosperous life and Punjab welcomes them with open arms but at the same time, ethnic parties raise enormous allegations about misappropriations in the budget, water distribution, resource allocation, infrastructure, political representation.

A punjabi these days, bears the most electricity loadshedding, the most gas loadshedding, his industry has been destroyed, he is allocated the least unit of water per arable acre in the country and yet he is still pointed at as the extortionist.

 

[Butchcassidy]

@INDIC
Punjab was the one of the dominant provinces of British India, the canal colonies boom brought agricultural boom in semi-arid Punjab and while most of the soldiers in British Indian army were from Punjab which was inherited by Pakistan. So after partition they were already in the dominance to large extent and military dictatorship gave them overall dominance unlike the Bengalis of East Pakistan who were impoverished.

So I should include that Punjab had or still has dominance in agriculture and army over the rest of the provinces?

@INDIC
Punjab was the one of the dominant provinces of British India, the canal colonies boom brought agricultural boom in semi-arid Punjab and while most of the soldiers in British Indian army were from Punjab which was inherited by Pakistan. So after partition they were already in the dominance to large extent and military dictatorship gave them overall dominance unlike the Bengalis of East Pakistan who were impoverished.

So I should include that Punjab had or still has dominance in agriculture and army over the rest of the provinces?[/quote

@INDIC
Punjab was the one of the dominant provinces of British India, the canal colonies boom brought agricultural boom in semi-arid Punjab and while most of the soldiers in British Indian army were from Punjab which was inherited by Pakistan. So after partition they were already in the dominance to large extent and military dictatorship gave them overall dominance unlike the Bengalis of East Pakistan who were impoverished.

So I should include that Punjab had or still has dominance in agriculture and army over the rest of the provinces?

Hi karla, I would suggest you consult tan tai yongs book ' the garrison state'. It might answer some of your questions

 

[INDIC]

Himachlis speak dogri which is a dialect of punjabi. Haryanwi people speak haryanwi which is a dialect of hindi. Dogri speaking Himachlis are technically punjabis with their dogri dialect. And Haryanwis are considered mohajirs (urdu speakers) , in punjab they are predominantly settled in multan, some in lahore but most of them would be in karachi I believe like other urdu speakers.

Himachalis mainly speak Pahari not Dogri which is a dialect of Hindi, that's not the Pahari of Jammu and Kashmir. Hindi is the official language in Himachal Pradesh.

 

[Rafi]

Anyone that can speak a few words in Punjabi is regarded as Punjabi no matter what your origins or ethnicity are.