Making Israelis into Monsters

[Safriz]

Ask Germans about useless Katyusha rockets.


Israel spends hundreds of millions and risks soldier lives to reduce palestinian civilian casualties.




Oh, not again phosphorus crap.

Phosphorous crap?
It was shown live on many news channels...and you call it crap?
shame on you

 

[500]

Phosphorous crap?
It was shown live on many news channels...and you call it crap?
shame on you

What Israel used was M825A1 smoke rounds. Absolutely legal standard NATO smoke rounds.

Smoke skreens look unusual and scarry for regular people, thats why it was used by Palestinian propaganda as some terrible weapon used by Israel.

 

[silko]

What Israel used was M825A1 smoke rounds. Absolutely legal standard NATO smoke rounds.

Smoke skreens look unusual and scarry for regular people, thats why it was used by Palestinian propaganda as some terrible weapon used by Israel.

The Israeli military openly used white phosphorus shells in the Gaza War, which were fired from 155mm artillery guns. As The Times reported, the type of shell used was the US made M825A1. The paper further reported that when confronted with photographic evidence of its stockpiles of the shells, an IDF spokeswoman insisted that the M825A1 is not a White Phosphorus ("WP") type, saying, "This is what we call a quiet shell - it is empty, it has no explosives and no white phosphorus. There is nothing inside it." The Times continued,
Neil Gibson, technical adviser to Jane's Missiles and Rockets, insisted that the M825A1 was a WP round. “The M825A1 is an improved model. The WP does not fill the shell but is impregnated into 116 felt wedges which, once dispersed [by a high-explosive charge], start to burn within four to five seconds. They then burn for five to ten minutes. The smoke screen produced is extremely effective,” he said.
The shell is not defined as an incendiary weapon by the Third Protocol to the Convention on Conventional Weapons because its principal use is to produce smoke to protect troops. However, Marc Galasco, of Human Rights Watch, said: “Recognising the significant incidental incendiary effect that white phosphorus creates, there is great concern that Israel is failing to take all feasible steps to avoid civilian loss of life and property by using WP in densely populated urban areas. This concern is amplified given the technique evidenced in media photographs of air-bursting WP projectiles at relatively low levels, seemingly to maximise its incendiary effect.
He added, however, that Human Rights Watch had no evidence that Israel was using incendiaries as weapons.

In its early statements the Israeli military repeatedly denied using white phosphorus, saying "We categorically deny the use of white phosphorus", and "The IDF acts only in accordance with what is permitted by international law and does not use white phosphorus." It eventually admitted its use and stopped using the shells, however, saying that a "media buzz" led to its decision to do so.

Numerous reports from human right groups during the war indicated that white phosphorus shells were being used by Israel. Human Rights Watch said shells exploded over populated civilian areas, including a crowded Palestinian refugee camp and a United Nations school where civilians were seeking refuge. Additionally, Human Rights Watch said that white phosphorus injuries were suspected in the cases of ten burn victims. The International Red Cross stated that phosphorus weapons had been used in the conflict but would not comment publicly on the legality of Israel’s use of the weapon, pending further investigation, contrary to what had been attributed to the ICRC in a number of media reports.

Human Rights Watch said its experts in the region had witnessed the use of white phosphorus. Kenneth Roth, the organisation's executive director, added: "This is a chemical compound that burns structures and burns people. It should not be used in populated areas."

Amnesty International said a fact-finding team found "indisputable evidence of the widespread use of white phosphorus" in crowded civilian residential areas of Gaza City and elsewhere in the territory. Donatella Rovera, the head of an Amnesty fact-finding mission to southern Israel and Gaza, said: "Israeli forces used white phosphorus and other weapons supplied by the USA to carry out serious violations of international humanitarian law, including war crimes."

On January 5 the Times reported that tell tale smoke associated with white phosphorus had been seen in areas of a shelling. On January 12 it was reported that more than 50 phosphorus burns victims were in Nasser Hospital. On January 16 the UNRWA headquarters was hit with phosphorus munitions. As a result of the hit, the compound was set ablaze.

Many other observers, including HRW military expert, reported seeing white phosphorus air bursts over Gaza City and the Jabalya refugee camp. The BBC published a photograph of two shells exploding over a densely populated area on 11 January.

The IDF stated on January 13 that it "wishes to reiterate that it uses weapons in compliance with international law, while strictly observing that they be used in accordance with the type of combat and its characteristics."

On January 14, the Israeli newspaper Haaretz claimed that Hamas had fired a white phosphorus mortar shell which exploded in an open area in the Eshkol area in the western Negev of southern Israel. No injuries or damage were reported by this newspaper. Contrary to the report however, which did not mention its source, official foreign press spokesman for the Israeli Police, Micky Rosenfeld, said the shell had landed in a field near Sderot, also stating that no damage or injuries had occurred.

A day after the alleged attack, a researcher for Human Rights Watch travelled to Sderot to investigate the claim. One resident said he had heard about a mortar shell, possibly with white phosphorus, landing in a field outside of town but could not specify where. Moreover, when pressed for information, Rosenfeld could give no further insight, telling Human Rights Watch that "all I have is what's in the press release." Local authorities in Sderot also told the researcher that they were unaware of the attack.

On 15 January, the United Nations compound, housing numerous refugees in Gaza City, was struck by Israeli white phosphorus artillery shells, setting fire to pallets of relief materials and igniting several large fuel storage tanks. A UN spokesperson indicated that there were difficulties in attempting to extinguish the fires because of the white phosphorus and stated "You can’t put it [white phosphorus] out with traditional methods such as fire extinguishers. You need sand but we do not have any sand in the compound." Senior Israeli defense officials maintain that the shelling using white phosphorus munitions was in response to Israeli military personnel being fired upon by Hamas fighters who were in proximity to the UN headquarters. The Israeli army claims to be investigating improper use of WP in this conflict, particularly in one incident in which 20 WP shells were fired in a built-up area of Beit Lahiya.

On 17 January, Peter Herby, head of the International Committee of the Red Cross Arms Unit , confirmed the use of white phosphorus weapons by Israel in Gaza, outlined the rules applicable to phosphorus weapons and explained the ICRC's approach to the issue.

On January 20, Paul Wood of the BBC reports from Gaza on white phosphorus use in civilian areas. Amnesty team weapon expert Christopher Cobb-Smith, who witnessed the shelling by the IDF during the conflict, reported "we saw streets and alleyways littered with evidence of the use of white phosphorus, including still-burning wedges and the remnants of the shells and canisters fired by the Israeli army."

On January 26, the Israel's Ministry of Defence finally confirmed speculations about the use of white phosphorus in the Israeli-Gaza conflict.

On March 25, 2009, USA Based Human Rights Organization Human Rights Watch published a 71 page report titled Rain of Fire, Israel’s Unlawful Use of White Phosphorus in Gaza and said that Israel's usage of the weapon was illegal.

White phosphorus munitions did not kill the most civilians in Gaza – many more died from missiles, bombs, heavy artillery, tank shells, and small arms fire – but their use in densely populated neighborhoods, including downtown Gaza City, violated international humanitarian law (the laws of war), which requires taking all feasible precautions to avoid civilian harm and prohibits indiscriminate attacks.​

The Israeli government released a report in July 2009 that confirmed that the IDF used white phosphorus in both exploding munitions and smoke projectiles. The report acknowledged the use of exploding munitions by Israeli ground and naval forces. The report argues that the use of these munition was limited to unpopulated areas for marking and signaling and not as an anti-personnel weapon. The Israeli government report further stated that smoke screening projectiles were the majority of the munitions containing white phosphorus employed by the IDF and that these were very effective in that role. The report states that at no time did IDF forces have the objective of inflicting any harm on the civilian population.

Head of the UN Fact Finding Mission Justice Richard Goldstone presented the report of the Mission to the Human Rights Council in Geneva on 29 September 2009, urging the Council and the international community as a whole to put an end to impunity for violations of international law in Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territory. The Goldstone report accepted that white phosphorus is not illegal under international law but did find that the Israelis were "systematically reckless in determining its use in build-up areas". It also call for serious consideration to be given to the banning of its use as an obscurant.

HRW claimed in its report that instead of White phosphorus, the Israeli military had a non-lethal alternative at its disposal- smoke shells produced by Israel Military Industries.

Two senior Israeli officers who were responsible for firing white phosphorus artillery shells on a United Nations compound were reprimanded in early 2010.

White phosphorus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

you decide if you believe it or not. this is just a bit of facts here.

 

[500]

The smoke screen produced is extremely effective,” he said.
The shell is not defined as an incendiary weapon by the Third Protocol to the Convention on Conventional Weapons because its principal use is to produce smoke to protect troops.

Human Rights Watch had no evidence that Israel was using incendiaries as weapons.

Thanks for confirming my point.

Even human right activits admit that this is smoke and absolutely legal round.

HRW claimed in its report that instead of White phosphorus, the Israeli military had a non-lethal alternative at its disposal- smoke shells produced by Israel Military Industries.

No other round produces 10 minute smoke.

 

[saleen_s7]

Thanks for confirming my point.

Even human right activits admit that this is smoke and absolutely legal round.


No other round produces 10 minute smoke.

Hey, don't mind me asking, but I have never got an Israeli's point of view for the one state solution. A Jewish member already in this forum has suggested the Zionist movement is a secular movement, if that is the case, there should be no problem at all. Why not declare Israel a secular nation like Turkey and form one country? A jewish state to exist only for jewish people seems a bit racist. I can understand the demographic changes which posses a risk, but I just don't understand how a small country which is widely despised by all its neighbour can last in the long run.

 

[Safriz]

Thanks for confirming my point.

Even human right activits admit that this is smoke and absolutely legal round.


No other round produces 10 minute smoke.

sorry my friend..you are still making no sense..
Here is a para from your and my good friend wiki the pedia..

White phosphorus is a material made from a common allotrope of the chemical element phosphorus that is used in smoke, tracer, illumination and incendiary munitions.[1] Other common names include WP, and the slang term "Willie Pete," which is dated from its use in Vietnam, and is still sometimes used in military jargon.[2] As an incendiary weapon, white phosphorus burns fiercely and can set cloth, fuel, ammunition and other combustibles on fire, and cause serious burns or death.

In addition to its offensive capabilities, white phosphorus is also a highly efficient smoke-producing agent, burning quickly and causing an instant bank of smoke. As a result, smoke-producing white phosphorus munitions are very common, particularly as smoke grenades for infantry, loaded in grenade launchers on tanks and other armored vehicles, or as part of the ammunition allotment for artillery or mortars. These create smoke screens to mask movement, position or the origin of fire from the enemy. White phosphorus is used in bombs, artillery, mortars, and short-range missiles which burst into burning flakes of phosphorus upon impact.

It doesnt matter if it was used for smoke screen..what matters was that it was used as air burst over densely populated civilian ares and the white hot burning phosphorous burned many civilians on the ground..
The way it was used makes it even worse...In the video you can see white hot phosphorous raining over large areas of civilian population..burning them and their houses..Thats sheer cruelty which only Israel can do..None other...You can use whatever fancy terminologies..or quote international conventions for your purposes..but what the eye sees is not wrong..Its visible that white hot metal is raining on one of the most densely populated ares of the world..
NATO or whoever says that its legal..may be says so for battlefields where well equipped,well protected soldiers are fighting a war...No sane person can call this "Legal" to shower burning Phosphorous over civilian houses which are inhabited by families.

And this is what your "innocent smoke screen" does on the ground.

 

[500]

Hey, don't mind me asking, but I have never got an Israeli's point of view for the one state solution. A Jewish member already in this forum has suggested the Zionist movement is a secular movement, if that is the case, there should be no problem at all. Why not declare Israel a secular nation like Turkey and form one country? A jewish state to exist only for jewish people seems a bit racist. I can understand the demographic changes which posses a risk, but I just don't understand how a small country which is widely despised by all its neighbour can last in the long run.

Israel is democracy, all religions and nations have same rights. For example Arabic in Israel is official language, we have state run Arabic schools, all documents in Israel should be translated to Arabic, there are daily Arab programs on Israeli state TV. Unlike Turkey where Kurdish is not recognized. So I dont think that Israeli Arabs would like Israel to be like Turkey.

It doesnt matter if it was used for smoke screen..

It simply can't be used for any other purpose but smoke.

M825A1 has only one purpose: produce smoke. There are other WP rounds which have other usages as well, like M110A1. But M825A1 has only one purpose: produce smoke. The International law allows to use this round in cities and wherever u wish.

This round was used actually to reduce civilian casualties, because otherwise u would need to use regular High Explosive rounds which are million times more lethal.

 

[NeutralCitizen]

Israeli's aren't willing to accept a one state solution because the Arabs population will overtake them in the future, the two state solution isn't going well, a 3 state won't work because Neither Egypt or Jordan don't want it.

 

[Safriz]

It simply can't be used for any other purpose but smoke.

M825A1 has only one purpose: produce smoke. There are other WP rounds which have other usages as well, like M110A1. But M825A1 has only one purpose: produce smoke. The International law allows to use this round in cities and wherever u wish.

This round was used actually to reduce civilian casualties, because otherwise u would need to use regular High Explosive rounds which are million times more lethal.

creating smoke by burning people's houses and flesh...
yes i agree it can create lots of smoke....
Above i posted video of UN personnel who explicitly says that he can smell human flesh burning.....Now that's called "Trying to reduce civilian causalities" by burning half the population alive.

Then the OP complains why we think Israelis are cold blooded supporters of war crimes.

 

[500]

creating smoke by burning people's houses and flesh...
yes i agree it can create lots of smoke....

If it was burning people alive as u describe it would be marked as dual purpose round. However it has only one purpose: make smoke.

I'll repeat again:

M825A1, which Israel used is smoke round. It is not incendiary round and its absolutely legal in all circumstanses.
M110A1 is dual purpose round, smoke + incendiary. Israel did not use it.

M825 155mm Projectile
M110 155mm Projectile

 

[Patriot]

I have no love for Israel but i think we Muslims should not be delusional about Arabs or Iranians - They are both b@stards and using Palestinians Blood for their strategic goals.I hope one day Palestinians have their own free state and both State of Palestine and Israel and can coexist.

 

[fd24]

I have no love for Israel but i think we Muslims should not be delusional about Arabs or Iranians - They are both b@stards and using Palestinians for their strategic goals.I hope one day Palestinians have their own free state and both State of Palestine and Israel and can coexist.

100% agree. The post and video recently put on here showing the killings of Syrian civilians confirms this. I think the Arabs have a lot to answer for because they (and in particular greed) have behaved and are complete ignoramuses. Completely made a mess of their own back yard and not only do they try playing with the Palestinian issue they play the Muslim card.

 

[Executioner]

Prove it....

do not come with rants and accusations..give us facts and figures

you guys are good at linking political trouble with islam...although the said riot or trouble had nothing to do with islam

What type of prove you asking for oh you never listen to your own people who shouting about 1000 year barbaric period which your kind is very proud of it bloodiest history event happened in India. It’s hard to calculate the number of people who was killed, women rapes, forcefully conversion etc.

Everyone Knows that All of the Muslim Conquest let that in any Part of the world & every Muslim King let that be Muhammad tughlaq even Prophet Mohammed himself Persecuted Infidel & every non - Muslim... that was there style of War & way of enjoying their Victory and your golden days.

Islamic Conquest was most Bloodiest & most Barbaric in History...Women were treated as War booties.

Guys who watched Jodha Akbar think Akbar was a Secular... but i was not so...he was softer on Masses just for the Better Administration of this over stretched Empire and for the "amazing" military victories many of which were won by the Rajput Generals of Akbar.For decreasing the Constant threat from Rajput & Marathas... it was nothing like he did it because he was kind & secular. He was as Barbaric as any Moghul kings.
Akbar the butcher of Chittor killed 30,000 unarmed civilians for not converting to Islam.
What harm did those millions of Hindus did? Did they come and destroy your mosques? Did they massacre Muslims? No, those Hindus and Buddhists were peaceful beings; but were killed for only one reason being a NON-MUSLIM.

The Real Akbar. The (not) So Great

Ever heard of Shiva ji, Pratap and Guru Gobind singhji slaughtering innocents?
You guys always talks about Sikhs riots 1984 and take a pleasure, they killed on religions reason? NO
It was political riots but I think you forget who kill the Guru Gobind Singh ji and his youngest son and even you don’t who is Guru Gobind Singh ji and what he done for us. Go check who murder him and why because he trying to stop forcefully conversion of Kashmiri pandits . And you forget Sikh and Hindus are brothers, if you don’t know ask me I will tell you. But not as embarrassing as raping and killing 1000s of Hindu women in Bangladesh. How you do the Identification mention below, Many times more minorities were murdered and an army was given orders to exterminate a minority in 1971.



What type of religions is this killing innocent only for conversion and non-Muslim thing?
If we Hindus want revenge for those million Hindus killed my Muslim. There will not even a single Muslim breathing in India. But we are not Muslim to murder millions of people in the name of religion. In India many Muslim are converted ones from Hinduism. The thing is you always need to some to blame and you are the only one religious group who have problems with other’s you can’t mix up with other due to your pure concept thing.


Now in modern world they doing for jihad called terrorist for Muslim and saving Islam, now where are your quote “killing one innocent person is like killing all of mankind, isn't that proof that Islam is peaceful” leave all religion behind and tell me Muslims killing Muslims is quite ok, walking brainwash human bombs. Really it’s very easy to changed their mind-set if have something we called brain. And you guys also problem with Indian Muslim and claims yourself pure Muslim why that propaganda even they are better and more disciplined than your people.


Every single time you guys talk about it to shows Islamic power which is nothing, you can’t do anything but still some illiterate who lived in delusion they talk about “Gazwa Hind” prophecy and according to them in coming year 2012 they going to conquer India LOL and afterwards they go for Israel. I am waiting for another joke. Actually the problem is you can’t accept other religious group only because of Muslims phobia.
However in which era or period you are interested in or any particular country were Jihad show his mercy to mankind like – Albania, Algeria, America, Armenia, Australia, Britain, Bulgaria, Canada, China, Croatia, Denmark, Egypt, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, India, Iran, Israel, Italy, Latin America, Malaysia, Mongolia, Netherlands, Nigeria, Philippines, Poland, Rumania, Russia, Scandinavia, Serbia, Spain, Sudan, Syria, Thailand and Turkey; also if you are looking Jihad in the Modern Age (20th and 21st Centuries).

 

[Garry]

here is another example :

The two sons of Guru Gobind (tenth guru of sikhs), Zorawar (9 years old) and Fateh (6 years old) were offered princely rewards, riches, honor and power if they would only bend down and recite the Kalma and become Muslims. With a courage that belied their years, both boys refused to do so.

Wazir Khan, loosing his chance to gain some small bit of revenge on the Guru, sentenced them to death. He gave orders that masons were to brick the Gurus two youngest sons into a section of the city's wall. Perhaps the masons were either Hindus who saw the cruelty of the orders or Muslims who had a better sense of the teachings of Islam than the angry Khan, which forbid the killing of innocents (especially children and women) for history tells us that the wall fell apart, as if mocking the faujdar's orders, who angryly ordered his executioner to kill the two youngest sons of the Guru in the same manner their grandfather had been killed. Told of the death of her grandsons the Guru's mother too left her earthly body.

http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Sahibzada_Fateh_Singh

 

[Executioner]

here is another example :

http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Sahibzada_Fateh_Singh

I know the whole incident, Jamshed Khan stabbed the Guru in the left side below the heart while he was resting in his chamber after the Rehras prayer. Guru Gobind Singh killed the attacker with his sabre, while the attacker's fleeing companion was killed by the Sikhs who had rushed in on hearing the noise.