Leading Indian strategist:India not in the same league as US and China!

[Bushy]

I'm only comparing in relative to the US. Russia is closer to that of China. Compare to US, China and Russia is closer to that of Somalia than to the US.

Sorry mate, your comparison is beyond my comprehension. But I will give you some food for thought:

India is much weaker than China, right? And the gap between Russia and the USA is much wider, right?

So... how is it that Russia still does all that it wants against the combined frustration of the USA and the EU in the Easter Block, whereas China... it hasn't been able to wrestle Arunanchal Pradesh away from weakling like India yet? And please like many others here, don't tell me AP is in China because I have been there.

 

[Bushy]

Well, you are right, I should be more humble when I compare the US against that of China, Russia and India. Personally, I believe that the US can take on these 3 countries simutaneously and win but I do not want to get too much into it.

See, the fallacy is not in the state of your logic, but the logic you state.

For example: You talk with a preconceived notion that the power of a country comes mainly from its military might/advancement in technology. But the fact is that a country's power does not come merely from military or any other singled out factor. It has many other equally important factors such as diplomatic relationships and trade activities, and a strong economy is just an effect of such factors, and not the cause. All the factors are intertwined and are taken collectively to gauge the influence of a country. Vatican city is one of the very powerful countries, but look at its size and military. Or Bhutan is a very small country with negligible economy, but it will be defended with India's military against any aggression.

I very much appreciate your realization on humility, but I would even more greatly appreciate a stronger logic presented by you.

 

[faithfulguy]

Sorry mate, your comparison is beyond my comprehension. But I will give you some food for thought:

India is much weaker than China, right? And the gap between Russia and the USA is much wider, right?

So... how is it that Russia still does all that it wants against the combined frustration of the USA and the EU in the Easter Block, whereas China... it hasn't been able to wrestle Arunanchal Pradesh away from weakling like India yet? And please like many others here, don't tell me AP is in China because I have been there.

Russia has nuclear deterrant against the US. But in terms of tech, it had improved very little in the past 18 years. I would even say that China would be able to catch up to Russian technology in about 10 years or so as Russia is regressing and China is improving. This would also mean that in 10 years, western Europe will be about a generation ahead of China/Russia.

The border issue between China and India is tie to Kashmir. Its the foundation of problems between China and India. If Kashmir can be resolvedh, all the border problems between China and India would stay at status quo and be resolved.

 

[faithfulguy]

See, the fallacy is not in the state of your logic, but the logic you state.

For example: You talk with a preconceived notion that the power of a country comes mainly from its military might/advancement in technology. But the fact is that a country's power does not come merely from military or any other singled out factor. It has many other equally important factors such as diplomatic relationships and trade activities, and a strong economy is just an effect of such factors, and not the cause. All the factors are intertwined and are taken collectively to gauge the influence of a country. Vatican city is one of the very powerful countries, but look at its size and military. Or Bhutan is a very small country with negligible economy, but it will be defended with India's military against any aggression.

I very much appreciate your realization on humility, but I would even more greatly appreciate a stronger logic presented by you.

True, that is why US has more power and influence as no country influece the world culture as much as the US. The world has been relatively peace in the last 60+ years. Its because one single country had been keeping the peace. The US dollar, though much weaker lately, is still regarded as gold as its use by many countries as their currency reserve. We have been living in Pax Americana for the last 60 years and we will for another 60 years the way the world is progressing. As how the Roman culture permeate the ancient world, American culture is the one culture that all others compare with. But the foundation of the cultural extrength is its economy, technology and military power. and if it make you happier, its democracy.

 

[zombie]

He said the obstacles to India's emergence as a great power were "self-defeating obstacles," and said particularly when it came to military power, had four major deficits -- having a vision about India, being convinced about India, having a will, and lack of a strategy.

and 5. Implementation. - We see plans from India comming out very often but a clear lack of implementation of these plans.

Agree with the author on many points maybe not all. India must focus on military, economic and upliftment of its people like China did. Some nice lessons from the US and China. No wonder they are in the top positions today. It is not by chance but by realistic and diligent effort to overcome all opposition to be no 1, that makes them reach that.

You must actually aim for and fire at the stars, not dream about the stars, to reach the treetops.

 

[gubbi]

The border issue between China and India is tie to Kashmir. Its the foundation of problems between China and India. If Kashmir can be resolvedh, all the border problems between China and India would stay at status quo and be resolved.

Interesting comment. Can you please elaborate how Indo-Chinese issues are related to Kashmir?
Are you confusing China for Pakistan?
Kashmir is what Pakistan, and thinks the world too, considers as a disputed territory, China does not meddle there. China wants AP.Show me the connection.

 

[faithfulguy]

Interesting comment. Can you please elaborate how Indo-Chinese issues are related to Kashmir?
Are you confusing China for Pakistan?
Kashmir is what Pakistan, and thinks the world too, considers as a disputed territory, China does not meddle there. China wants AP.Show me the connection.

China just keep the ap issue going for it to intervene if there are issues over Pakistan that cause it to want to intervene. So if China for some reason wins and capture AP, it will always give it back to India because it wants to intervene in the Pakistan/Kashmir affair. Even if India volunteer to give AP back to China. China would refuse. Without India occupying AP, China lost its excuse for intervening. That is why china gave back ap to India in 1962

 

[Communist]

China just keep the ap issue going for it to intervene if there are issues over Pakistan that cause it to want to intervene. So if China for some reason wins and capture AP, it will always give it back to India because it wants to intervene in the Pakistan/Kashmir affair. Even if India volunteer to give AP back to China. China would refuse. Without India occupying AP, China lost its excuse for intervening. That is why china gave back ap to India in 1962

Sorry I disagree.

China gave up AP to India in 1962, because China did not want to solve the issue militarily going beyond the Panchsheel agreement format.

China never wants to intervene in another's country's internal disputes. Hopefully, both Kashmir and AP issues are not india's internal disputes.

One personal suggestion, please do not get divided. United we stand, and divided we fall. You are first a Han Chinese, then a Taiwanese. China is your motherland. Please respect and protect your motherland at any cost. Do not get misled by false separatist sentiments.

Thanks.

 

[navtrek]

My posting of the thread article is due to my belief that despite of some valid reality-check points made by the author, the strategist represents Indian style neo-con who wrongly argues that millitary power, first and foremost, is way to go.

On the contrary, the insane level of millitary defence growth of india is the fastest way to ruin any economic fruits it starts to garner. The potential arms race it will cause (and it is cuasing) in the region with China and pakistan, will very much likely kill Indian's economic development at its infancy. The long arms procument list you just provided serves only as a lethal doze of suicidal drugs IMO. Enjoy!

Economic development is always associated with military development. whats the use of having all the money in the world ? When we cannot ensure the Freedom we enjoy today.

Dont worry about the lethal dose my friend in reality its not lethal if we develop today we will not have a 1962 tomorrow or in the future

i.e. at least our soldiers would have proper clothing & weapons to fight the aggressors

 

[faithfulguy]

Sorry I disagree.

China gave up AP to India in 1962, because China did not want to solve the issue militarily going beyond the Panchsheel agreement format.

China never wants to intervene in another's country's internal disputes. Hopefully, both Kashmir and AP issues are not india's internal disputes.

One personal suggestion, please do not get divided. United we stand, and divided we fall. You are first a Han Chinese, then a Taiwanese. China is your motherland. Please respect and protect your motherland at any cost. Do not get misled by false separatist sentiments.

Thanks.

I think according to internation consensus, kashmir issue is not an internal issue but a conflict between 2 countries. China would only interfere at a time of crisis.

As an American citizen, I'm now an American of Chinese/Taiwanese descent. Culturally, I'm Chinese/Taiwanese, but in terms of nationality, I'm an American. In terms of my political views, I do want to see peace between China and America because world peace start out with peace between China and America.

I with a lot of Indians here because the Indians like to brag more about the Indian achievement, especially the ones that its in the planning stage. Personally, I'm a complete novice when it regard to national defence or weaponary. I do not even know what is a J-10 or MKI about a month ago. Recently, I discover this site base on reading about tension between China/India. Its just that the Indians here like to compare with China with outrageous claims. But I'm not here supporing a particular country as US do not need my support, Taiwan is not in the picture and China has enough supporters in here. If anything, I'm here to support some Indians to get their head out of the hole.

 

[Communist]

I think according to internation consensus, kashmir issue is not an internal issue but a conflict between 2 countries. China would only interfere at a time of crisis.

As an American citizen, I'm now an American of Chinese/Taiwanese descent. Culturally, I'm Chinese/Taiwanese, but in terms of nationality, I'm an American. In terms of my political views, I do want to see peace between China and America because world peace start out with peace between China and America.

I with a lot of Indians here because the Indians like to brag more about the Indian achievement, especially the ones that its in the planning stage. Personally, I'm a complete novice when it regard to national defence or weaponary. I do not even know what is a J-10 or MKI about a month ago. Recently, I discover this site base on reading about tension between China/India. Its just that the Indians here like to compare with China with outrageous claims. But I'm not here supporing a particular country as US do not need my support, Taiwan is not in the picture and China has enough supporters in here. If anything, I'm here to support some Indians to get their head out of the hole.

You may be an American citizen, but never an American by ethnicity and hardly an American by nationality. This is the fact that may sound harsh and taste bitter. Everyone can become an American citizen by acquiring a permanent green card or whatever you call it. In my personal opinion, you have been born as a Han Chinese and you will die as a Han Chinese. You cannot live without being a Han Chinese, nor can you die without being the same. Identity is not that fragile for a man with the sense of respect and dignity, that it can be changed whenever one feels like.

Anyway, I wanted to say that you have to respect and defend the territorial integrity of your motherland. Motherland is next to one's own mother. AP is actually South Tibet and you must support the reunification of South Tibet currently under Indian occupation with mainland China.

And about the bragging, I do not pay attention to people who do not deserve that.

 

[Bushy]

@Communist,

A quick question: What is an American ethnicity?

 

[Communist]

@Communist,

A quick question: What is an American ethnicity?

I do know that. Everybody knows that. But sorry I cannot say it at an online public forum.

Some people who have vested interests in building the identity of American ethnicity will start accusing me as a racist.

I am sorry, I cannot say. But I know you are well aware of the fact.

 

[faithfulguy]

I do know that. Everybody knows that. But sorry I cannot say it at an online public forum.

Some people who have vested interests in building the identity of American ethnicity will start accusing me as a racist.

I am sorry, I cannot say. But I know you are well aware of the fact.

Some people like to identify US base on race. However, Americans can overcome the difference in race and become one people base on an ideal and support American exceptionalism.

American exceptionalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Citizenship shows where a person vests his future, not the past. Americans may be formerly English, German, Russian, Japanese, Indian like Bobby Jindal which I strongly support, or Chinese/Taiwanese like me. But we are all Americans now and we must work together to make America a even greater nation. It has nothing to do against China or Chinese. I think China is growing and will do very well.

 

[Communist]

Some people like to identify US base on race. However, Americans can overcome the difference in race and become one people base on an ideal and support American exceptionalism.

American exceptionalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Citizenship shows where a person vests his future, not the past. Americans may be formerly English, German, Russian, Japanese, Indian like Bobby Jindal which I strongly support, or Chinese/Taiwanese like me. But we are all Americans now and we must work together to make America a even greater nation. It has nothing to do against China or Chinese. I think China is growing and will do very well.

Do you know the difference between an Indian and a Chinese, both living in the US as valid citizens?

The Indian person will never forget his Indian identity, tradition, heritage and will never abandon the invisible connection with his own original motherland. The person will always seek to do his best to his own motherland and people. If you just watch a Bollywood movie Swadesh, you will realize what I am saying now about Indian feelings.

Here I admire Indians.

A Chinese, particularly Taiwanese person will, on the contrary, try to forget his Chinese identity, tradition and debt to his own original motherland after adopting a fake new foreign identity.

I could be wrong though, but it seems as if I have understood the difference well.