KP Assembly adopts resolution to create Hazara province

[Armstrong]

I would like to disagree. Muhammad Ali Jinnah wasn't a one man road show, there were many people who made the dream that was Pakistan possible. I for one think they deserve respect and admiration.
And yes NWFP is not a name and should have been changed long ago, as was suggested to Afghania.

Quaid-e-Azam was indeed the only one responsible for the dream that was Pakistan such is acknowledged by even his most ardent opponents !

I am not lecturing any body.
I remember one Balochi leader being asked on BBC radio, that why are there slogans like "Punjabiob ka qabristan Balochistan Balochistan. He replied because I have been all around Punjab and I have never come across a slogan saying "Balchiun ko un ke haqooq do".
Now I know you are going to say that is wrong for him to answer like that. But the reality is that in Pakistan, you can not be the ruling party unless you have got the majority vote from Punjab and is thus regarded as the province of the ruling class.
So if anything it should be Punjab which should be divided into more provinces. That will take away one of the biggest rallying cry for the separatists and hopefully make Pakistan a more just society.
But no, that's not going to happen. What is happening that the smallest province is on the chopping board because one well connected minority is not happy with the name of that province and people here from Lahore to Karachi are celebrating. What a pity.

That Baluch leader can say whatever he likes it does not equate with the 'truth' but when such venomous slogans were being uttered in Baluchistan & Punjabi Settlers were being killed in the dozens I didn't see him noting the fact that in all his travels around Punjab he never managed to hear of any Baluch being harmed in response to what happened to those Settlers - One of the reasons why I despise both Ethno Nationalists & Islamists - Both would utter whatever would suit their purpose irrespective of whether it is or isn't grounded in fact !

Secondly if anyone its the People from Punjab who've spoken for the rights of the Baluch People whether its in the Missing Person cases, whether in the HRCP, whether Journalists, whether Politicians & whether the common man from Punjab - Had the People of Punjab thought any different they wouldn't have supported PML N on their slogan of talking to the Baluch & stopping any Operation in Baluchistan !

Thirdly it was PML N - a party that had all the seats to form Governments in Baluchistan & coalition Governments in KPK - that let both Pukhtoon & Baluch Nationalists & PTI to come to power despite easily being able to form their own Government therein - Hardly the hall-mark of a Party hailing from a Province hell bent on dominating other Pakistanis !

Fourthly I can quote figures should you wish to but Punjab's Per Capita Share is the lowest amongst all the Provinces whereas Baluchistan's is the highest & I can quote figures from as far back as 1990 - Maybe the Baluch Leader should've asked him own Sardars or better yet himself why wasn't Baluchistan developed despite having the most resources per person from the Federal Government being transferred to them instead of b*tching about what the Punjab Government with all her corruption, ineptitude & the least amount of resources has been able to achieve !

Fifthly after the devolution of powers to the Provinces the Federal Government is weaker than the Provincial Governments & the Senate is always there to even out any disparity on the basis of Population because whether Punjab wishes it or not no Law can be passed without the approval of Senators from the other 3 Provinces of Pakistan & the Federating Units of Pakistan !

Sixthly, No one....Not a single Notable from Punjab has ever opposed the division of Punjab into smaller Provinces because the Punjabis themselves welcome it knowing full well that More Provinces equal Better Administration !

But its not our fault if PTI is ruling in KPK & has delivered upon her promise of creating a Hazara Province !

I wish that Punjab was partitioned but I can't hope for that to happen till the next Elections or till PTI's stance picks up momentum !

Wrrora, you're taking this the wrong way - We are not cheering about the Division of KPK or anything like it !

We genuinely believe that more Provinces are the need for the Hour & we wish that the same would happen in Our Home Provinces & we applaud the fact that PTI has not only kept its word that Imran Khan gave during the Election Process (not many Party's do) but has also initiated a chain-reaction of sorts that maybe trigger the division of other Provinces into smaller federating units because PTI would have the moral right & the upper hand to submit a similar resolution in the Punjab Assembly to ask PML N to deliver upon their Promises that they made last year or to submit a similar resolution in the National Assembly that would see the creation of a National Body that has the authority to create Provinces - Which would inevitably mean the division of Punjab & Baluchistan !

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Armstrong need to study old gazeteers of NWFP, british were calling it Afghan region and its people afghans...infact if you check the old domiciles and land records, qaum is mentioned as afghan. Back then there were no people like armstrong upon our heads to confuse us in our identity.

 

[nangyale]

Quaid-e-Azam was indeed the only one responsible for the dream that was Pakistan such is acknowledged by even his most ardent opponents !

That's the problem with people in Pakistan. Hero worship. Yes he was spearheading a campaign but he wasn't alone in it. Anyways I wouldn't like to dragged in to an argument about he did or did not do. I will suggest that we let it be.

Assembly to ask PML N to deliver upon their Promises that they made last year or to submit a similar resolution in the National Assembly that would see the creation of a National Body that has the authority to create Provinces - Which would inevitably mean the division of Punjab & Baluchistan !

Like I said it's happening to the smallest province of Pakistan but the largest one's are left off. Come back and preach us the virtues of PML dominated Pakistan when Punjab and PML decide to sub-divide Punjab. I can bet it's never gonna happen.
If anything if there ever was re-division of Pakistan it should be done on a national level, and all the provinces should be part of the process.

 

[Armstrong]

Like I said it's happening to the smallest province of Pakistan but the largest one's are left off. Come back and preach us the virtues of PML dominated Pakistan when Punjab and PML decide to sub-divide Punjab. I can bet it's never gonna happen.
If anything if there ever was re-division of Pakistan it should be done on a national level, and all the provinces should be part of the process.

A Provincial Assembly elected by the People of Khyber-Pukhtoonkhwa is talking about sub-dividing the Province - Not Punjabis !

Punjab should be & must be subdivided into smaller administrative units but its division or that of any other province is more or less irrelevant to what the Provincial Assembly of KPK does or does not decide to do about KPK !

We - the rest of us - are merely giving our Opinion just as we are giving our Opinion on the sub-division of Punjab.

I don't know why the Punjabi becomes the punching bag of choice whenever arguments run out !

 

[BATMAN]

Tabdeeli !

 

[dawn_news]

Technichally speaking new province would be better. FATA is your stereotyped Africa even worse , KP barely has resources to keep itself together rather help FATA.

Look my friend in Pakistan all the provinces have other minorities. Sindh has a huge minority or Muhajirs, same goes for Pakhtoons in Balochistan. Punjab has got Sarikis and Pahares.
The provinces are named after the majority and not every Tom, Jack and Harry is mentioned in the name.
So to begin with NWFP was called Afghania but due to the insecurities of certain segments it was renamed to NWFP. The problem with that name is, that its geographical location its not a name.
So new names were suggested and eventually Khyber Pakhtonkhwa was chosen. It is not perfect but it was something to go by.
But this name infuriated some well represented minority so much that they want a separate province fro the non-Pakhtoons of Pakhtonkhwa, in that situation we the Pakhtons have a responsibility to defend the rights of others that don't want to be part of that new entity.
By the way when you talk about separating Punjab, we both know that, that is not going to happen. Punjab being the all powerfull, so please spare me the lecture about Pakistan first. Its we who are on chopping board again.

Serakis, paharis are punjabi speakers. You are confusing dialects with ethinicity, if you think Lahori punjabi and surronding areas are punjabi people then they make 20% of Pak population at best. You can't blame punjabis for dominating and at the same time say paharis and seraikis are not punjabis. The only reason punjabis make 55% of population is when we combine every native speaker of punjabi dialects.

 

[dawn_news]

I would like to disagree. Muhammad Ali Jinnah wasn't a one man road show, there were many people who made the dream that was Pakistan possible. I for one think they deserve respect and admiration.
And yes NWFP is not a name and should have been changed long ago, as was suggested to Afghania.


I am not lecturing any body.
I remember one Balochi leader being asked on BBC radio, that why are there slogans like "Punjabiob ka qabristan Balochistan Balochistan. He replied because I have been all around Punjab and I have never come across a slogan saying "Balchiun ko un ke haqooq do".
Now I know you are going to say that is wrong for him to answer like that. But the reality is that in Pakistan, you can not be the ruling party unless you have got the majority vote from Punjab and is thus regarded as the province of the ruling class.
So if anything it should be Punjab which should be divided into more provinces. That will take away one of the biggest rallying cry for the separatists and hopefully make Pakistan a more just society.
But no, that's not going to happen. What is happening that the smallest province is on the chopping board because one well connected minority is not happy with the name of that province and people here from Lahore to Karachi are celebrating. What a pity.

If you think by dividing provinces you will make N league weak, then you are very wrong. They almost made goverment in Balochistan and was the only party to win seats in all provinces. At this point N is anything but punjabi party.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

A Provincial Assembly elected by the People of Khyber-Pukhtoonkhwa is talking about sub-dividing the Province - Not Punjabis !

Punjab should be & must be subdivided into smaller administrative units but its division or that of any other province is more or less irrelevant to what the Provincial Assembly of KPK does or does not decide to do about KPK !

We - the rest of us - are merely giving our Opinion just as we are giving our Opinion on the sub-division of Punjab.

I don't know why the Punjabi becomes the punching bag of choice whenever arguments run out !

You brought punjabis into the discussion !

 

[Shahmir]

A Provincial Assembly elected by the People of Khyber-Pukhtoonkhwa is talking about sub-dividing the Province - Not Punjabis !

Punjab should be & must be subdivided into smaller administrative units but its division or that of any other province is more or less irrelevant to what the Provincial Assembly of KPK does or does not decide to do about KPK !

We - the rest of us - are merely giving our Opinion just as we are giving our Opinion on the sub-division of Punjab.

I don't know why the Punjabi becomes the punching bag of choice whenever arguments run out !

My question again to you sir, ARE you mama of punjab and punjabis that you are giving verdicts on punjab and what punjabis think about their province. We punjabis will never let our province divided in any format. And we also oppose division of any other province on the same principle. This is what real punjabis think on the ground not fake ones like you on internet.

Serakis, paharis are punjabi speakers. You are confusing dialects with ethinicity, if you think Lahori punjabi and surronding areas are punjabi people then they make 20% of Pak population at best. You can't blame punjabis for dominating and at the same time say paharis and seraikis are not punjabis. The only reason punjabis make 55% of population is when we combine every native speaker of punjabi dialects.

Many of these mummy daddy people do not understand that their is no racial divide between "punjabis" (central), saraikis (southern) and paharis (northern) because the same tribes are found in all three parts of punjab with slight dialect differences. I am punjabi from central punjab but I can perfectly understand both saraiki and pothohari dialects without any need of translator. I enjoy saraiki songs on youtube and pothohari or hindko youtube videos.

I hope people of pashtunkhwa wake up and kick out this traitor party PTI who is hell bent to destroy the ethnic fabric of that province.

 

[dawn_news]

My question again to you, ARE you mama of punjab and punjabis that you are giving verdicts on punjab and what punjabis think about their province. We punjabis will never let our province divided in any format. And we also oppose division of any other province on the same principle. This is what real punjabis think on the ground not fake ones like you on internet.



Many of these mummy daddy people do not understand that their is no racial divide between "punjabis" (central), saraikis (southern) and paharis (northern) because the same tribes are found in all three parts of punjab with slight dialect differences. I am punjabi from central punjab but I can perfectly understand both saraiki and pothohari dialects without any need of translator. I enjoy saraiki songs on youtube and pothohari or hindko youtube videos.

I hope people of pashtunkhwa wake up and kick out this traitor party PTI who is hell bent to destroy the ethnic fabric of that province.

Yes hindko, seraiki, pahari etc are simply dialects of Punjabis and not different languages.

 

[Shahmir]

Yes hindko, seraiki, pahari etc are simply dialects of Punjabis and not different languages.

Ok but they do not like the word dialect of "punjabi". Historically the language of the central parts of pakistan side punjab was called Lahori and it extended from Gujrat/Mandi bahudin in the north to as far south as Khanewal. I think a better way would be to say that Lahori, saraiki, Pothohari and Hindko are dialects of a common language whose origin lies in what is pakistani punjab.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Hindko/hindki/hindi are punjabi people. Not long ago pashtuns used to call punjabis as hindki i.e people of hind. In my area some people still refer to seraiki of adjacent mianwali as hindko....KPK was once ethnically punjabi of hindu faith, during mehmud ghanavi times afghan tribes from west colonized it.

 

[Shahmir]

Hindko/hindki/hindi are punjabi people. Not long ago pashtuns used to call punjabis as hindki i.e people of hind. In my area some people still refer to seraiki of adjacent mianwali as hindko....KPK was once ethnically punjabi of hindu faith, during mehmud ghanavi times afghan tribes from west colonized it.

During Ghaznavi times , power was only with "turks" , the entitiy of "afghan" was unkonwn at that time as these people were living only in a small region around suleman mountains as was described by Al-beruni who was historian of Mehmud the turk. Even the guy Shahmir of kashmir was also belong to the same turkic (probably the same lot that later merged with pashtuns/afghans as khiliji/ghilzai). All these turks were persian speakers in those times, that is also the reason that shahmiris of kashmir valley consider themselves as descendants of persian speaking turks. Another correction is that afghans/pashtuns were living south of peshawar valley not west of it. Ghaznavi attacked Ghandara kingdom capital of which was peshawar, we cannot establish the ethnic make up of peshawar valley at that time but I suspect the place was a multilingual and there various ethnic groups like hindki, dardic and could be even kashmiris because ghandhara and kashmir shared a lot of common history and were often referred together as similar regions by foreigners in the 10th century.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

During Ghaznavi times , power was only with "turks" , the entitiy of "afghan" was unkonwn at that time as these people were living only in a small region around suleman mountains as was described by Al-beruni who was historian of Mehmud the turk. Even the guy Shahmir of kashmir was also belong to the same turkic (probably the same lot that later merged with pashtuns/afghans as khiliji/ghilzai). All these turks were persian speakers in those times, that is also the reason that shahmiris of kashmir valley consider themselves as descendants of persian speaking turks.

Who said mehmud ghaznavi was Pashtun/afghan? I mentioned him to specify the timeline in which pashtuns migrated to KPK.
Shahmir was not turkic, he was swati pashtun. Read our history, how exactly swati and dilazak tribes of pashtuns were defeated by yousafzais, pushing them towards hazara. Swati tribe nowadays live in manshera and batagram, most of them speak pashto but some are hindko. It were swati pashtuns who introduced you people to islam.
Stop relying too much on wikipedia.

 

[Shahmir]

Who said mehmud ghaznavi was Pashtun/afghan? I mentioned him to specify the timeline in which pashtuns migrated to KPK.
Shahmir was not turkic, he was swati pashtun. Read our history, how exactly swati and dilazak tribes of pashtuns were defeated by yousafzais, pushing them towards hazara. Swati tribe nowadays live in manshera and batagram, most of them speak pashto but some are hindko. It were swati pashtuns who introduced you people to islam.
Stop relying too much on wikipedia.

I am kashmiri descendant so I know more than you about Shahmir, he was essentially a turkic warlord who was employed as an army commander by hindu king of kashmir and later he toppled that hindu king to establish his own Shahmiri dynasty. Swat was essentially a dardic speaking areas in his days but he was NOT dardic , most of historians on kashmir history agree that he belonged to the same persian speaking turkic warlords who were ruling from Balkh, ghazni, kabul. The persian speaking turks were the order the day back in the time of Shahmir the turk. And I do not rely on wikipedia, I have read a lot of books on authentic kashmir history by various academic authors. And who introduced Islam to pashtuns/aghans, it was Mehmud the turk just two centuries before Shahmir the turk did it to kashmiris. It was also Mehmud the turk who introduced islam to most parts of punjab as he made many persian speaking saints from greater khurasan to come and settle in punjab to preach islam to the volks. Islam in most of south asia has been spread ONLY by muslim sufis and saints from greater Khurasan and Iran under the patronage of ruling turks and later mughals. Now dont tell me that lodhi was afghan or suri was afghan because they were not , they were racially all descended fromt the same ruling turkic families in afghanistan, the whole Ghilzai tribe descend from turkic speaking Khalaj/khilji tribe.