Kerry-Lugar Bill or an attempt to further pressurize Pakistan

[evolutionist]

As the army has opposed KL bill it will never be passed by GOP. Army still in charge and controls the govt. In Pakistan the Army can not be questioned, controlled or held accountable by the civilians. Pakistani politicians, journalists and even commentators on this forum are afraid to speak against the Army for their own safety( I don't blame them). For example Zardari wants Army to move in Waziristan. But the Army even after 3 months of preparation is reluctant to move in. Why is such professional Army dragging its feet to fight against a band of terrorists. They don't want Americans attacking in Boluchistan or Waziristan on the issue of National Sovereignity. But why are they worried about sovereignity when they have already lost govt writ over 1/5 th of its terretory?

 

[Student]

As the army has opposed KL bill it will never be passed by GOP. Army still in charge and controls the govt. In Pakistan the Army can not be questioned, controlled or held accountable by the civilians. Pakistani politicians, journalists and even commentators on this forum are afraid to speak against the Army for their own safety( I don't blame them). For example Zardari wants Army to move in Waziristan. But the Army even after 3 months of preparation is reluctant to move in. Why is such professional Army dragging its feet to fight against a band of terrorists. They don't want Americans attacking in Boluchistan or Waziristan on the issue of National Sovereignity. But why are they worried about sovereignity when they have already lost govt writ over 1/5 th of its terretory?

Its the majority of the people of Pakistan that have rejected the KLB. Pakistan Army is one of the most respected institutions of this nation. It is not the job of US or anyone else for that matter what GOP or Army should or should not do with regard to the waziristan operation on the contrary US and NATO troops that have been in afganistan for the past eight years have lost writ over majority of Afganistan. Pakistan Army serves the State of Pakistan and no one else.

 

[XYON]

Here is why Zardari want the bill to go through!

2) FUNDING FOR POLICE REFORM, EQUIPPING, AND TRAINING- Up to $100,000,000 of the funds appropriated pursuant to subsection (a) should be used for police reform, equipping, and training.

Rehman Malik owns (as a front to Zardari) in UK a Security Solutions and Equipment provision company that deals with providing various gadgets etc related to the Security and Police Industry. Guess where the above funds would be going if the bill comes through! Rehman Malik has also tried to rope in China by providing credit to buy major security equipment (scanners, explosive sniffers, sophisticated camera's etc etc). The KL BILL is just another source of MORE MONEY to the Interior Ministry (run by Rehman Malik) under whom the said funding would be to spend!

 

[BATMAN]

As the army has opposed KL bill it will never be passed by GOP.

Why is it so important for Americans to push it down our throat?
Can I say US congress is being dictated by indains?

Army still in charge and controls the govt.

Did Zardari complained you about army's control?
Personally, I see nothing wrong if Pakistan being controlled by an institution instead of a 5-10 thugs!
Again, it is non of your fuking bussiness!

In Pakistan the Army can not be questioned, controlled or held accountable by the civilians.

Our President appoint cheif of armed forces and decide all about the defence purchses and almost at all occasions he has rejected what was propsed or technically evaluated by army, airforce and navy!
What does it suggest to you?

Pakistani politicians, journalists and even commentators on this forum are afraid to speak against the Army for their own safety( I don't blame them). For example Zardari wants Army to move in Waziristan. But the Army even after 3 months of preparation is reluctant to move in.

How did you come to this conclusion?
3 months of preperation! is this the only grounds of your claim?

Why is such professional Army dragging its feet to fight against a band of terrorists.

May be because terrorists are armed with US arms!

They don't want Americans attacking in Boluchistan or Waziristan on the issue of National Sovereignity. But why are they worried about sovereignity when they have already lost govt writ over 1/5 th of its terretory?

US will fail its objectives if it attack Baluchistan and it is quite evident from your Wazirastan adventure. Had you not have attacked Wazirastan, the local populace would have fight all foreign elements for you and that too free of cost!!!!
Army is primarily trained and responsible for borders i.e. to guard the state from foreign agreession. In rest of the state it does not work independently.
With respect to Afghan - Pak border issues are decided with mutuall consultation of US authorities.

 

[IceCold]

As the army has opposed KL bill it will never be passed by GOP. Army still in charge and controls the govt. In Pakistan the Army can not be questioned, controlled or held accountable by the civilians. Pakistani politicians, journalists and even commentators on this forum are afraid to speak against the Army for their own safety( I don't blame them). For example Zardari wants Army to move in Waziristan. But the Army even after 3 months of preparation is reluctant to move in. Why is such professional Army dragging its feet to fight against a band of terrorists. They don't want Americans attacking in Boluchistan or Waziristan on the issue of National Sovereignity. But why are they worried about sovereignity when they have already lost govt writ over 1/5 th of its terretory?

SPARE US THE BS.

 

[Student]

Shameless so called democratic GOP installed by coup detta backed by a so called will is blaitently defending this KLB. This behaviour is totally un acceptable to the vast majority of Pakistan.

We the people of Pakistan are staunchly opposed to this crooked bill. We will eat grass but will never surrender our country without a fight The opposition PML PML(N) MQM ANP are all in bed with Mr Zardari for a mass sell out of Pakistan.

Mr Zardari this country is not your personal property that you can sell as you see fit.

If US is going to decide How we run our state of affairs then there is no need for this grand entourage consisting of hundereds of thousands of Ministers Advisors and feet lickers. We can surely do without all of them.

We the people of Pakistan Stand Shoulder to Shoulder with our beloved COAS and Jawans who have spilt enough blood for the people of Pakistan and have there every stake in this country.

In my opinion US ambassador should be booted out of the country for having the audacity to suggest such a bill and defending it. As far as the corrupt political elite is concerned they should be hanged from the lamp posts on the presidential avenue.

May Allah Save this prescious country of ours from these evil people hell bent on its destruction. Ameen

 

[waraich66]

Ties with US not at cost of sovereignty: Shujaat
Thursday, October 08, 2009
By Asim Yasin

ISLAMABAD: PML-Q President Chaudhry Shujaat Hussain on Wednesday said his party has not rejected the Kerry-Lugar bill outright rather it wants full debate in parliament and omission of the clauses, which are against Pakistan’s interests.

“Our party is not against friendly relations with the US, however, no relationship is more important than our national interests. We want good ties with the US but not at the cost of our sovereignty and integrity. We don’t believe in opposing each and every step taken by the government, rather we would support positive steps,” he said while talking to newsmen after the parliamentary party meeting of PML-Q held at his residence here on Wednesday.

PML-Q Secretary General Mushahid Hussain Sayed said it would be inappropriate to assume that the bill could not be reviewed, citing the US-India nuclear agreement in this regard. He said his party has raised five fundamental objections over the Kerry-Lugar Bill. “The Kerry-Lugar Bill has put Pakistan and its people in the dock, presuming the Pakistani state and its institutions to be guilty and asking them to prove innocence before the US administration,” he added.

Earlier, Mushahid gave detailed briefing to the party MPs over the bill. The basic thrust of the Kerry-Lugar Bill is that Pakistan is not given credit for what its Army has done under difficult conditions in fighting the menace of terrorism and performing better this summer in Swat and Malakand than the US/Nato forces in Afghanistan after the surge,” he said. Mushahid said the secretary of state’s ìcertificateî on the nuclear issue reopens a closed chapter since it talks of ìefforts to dismantle supplier networksî when this was already done in 2004. The bill is intrusive, inviting the US intervention when it talks of ìdirect access to Pakistani nationalsî, he added.

The former information minister said this was a clause obviously inserted by the Indian lobby into the bill.

 

[pakomar]

As the army has opposed KL bill it will never be passed by GOP. Army still in charge and controls the govt. In Pakistan the Army can not be questioned, controlled or held accountable by the civilians. Pakistani politicians, journalists and even commentators on this forum are afraid to speak against the Army for their own safety( I don't blame them). For example Zardari wants Army to move in Waziristan. But the Army even after 3 months of preparation is reluctant to move in. Why is such professional Army dragging its feet to fight against a band of terrorists. They don't want Americans attacking in Boluchistan or Waziristan on the issue of National Sovereignity. But why are they worried about sovereignity when they have already lost govt writ over 1/5 th of its terretory?

Pakistan lost governance because of US station in Afghanistan. US knows Pakistan army and ISI in there way for taking Pakistan nukes.

May ALLAH gave Pakistan Army strength to defeat its enemy and ISI to identify its real enemy hiding behind.

 

[sonicboom]

Loyalists hit out in all directions

Islamabad - President Asif Ali Zardari and his troubleshooting aides failed to fix responsibility for the Kerry-Lugar Bill fiasco because of resistance from within powerful PPP lobbies, TheNation reliably learnt on Thursday. Sources privy to these developments said that President Zardari and his close aides were ostensibly disturbed over the Pakistan Army’s reaction and sought to remedy the situation through various options, including making some scapegoats but failed because of resistance from vested interests. According to insiders, the informal brainstorming session in the Presidency that lasted till late night on Wednesday, deliberated the issue and tried to find lapses that had occurred with regard to government’s failure to take all the stakeholders on board, including PPP coalition partners as well as armed forces of the country.

“ The session that bogged down, failed to find a satisfying response and decided to wait until the foreign minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi returns from his foreign visit on Friday”, a source said requesting not to be named. This, he said was done on the request of Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani. Sources said that President Zardari defended Pakistan’s ambassador to the USA Hussain Haqqani when some participants tried to raise their fingers on him for being responsible for the fiasco. Sources were of the view that President Zardari did not agree with Haqqani’s critics demanding his removal. Sources also confirmed that visible cracks have developed within the ruling PPP headed by President Zardari himself.

Background discussions with PPP parliamentarians suggests that a minority of PPP members were not happy over the way KLB has been handled leading to embarrassment to the party. However majority of PPP members still seemed happy over the bill and regarded it a diplomatic victory for the PPP government.

http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-newspaper-daily-english-online/Politics/09-Oct-2009/Loyalists-hit-out-in-all-directions

 

[Student]

Zardari and his nominated cronies are hell bent on destruction of Pakistan. Plunder Pakistan Party is now showing its true colors. Its about time that some rallies were organized against this mass sellout of Pakistan and its institutions.

Zardari will be remembered a notch up when compared to Mir Jaffer and Mir Sadiq s of History.

A truly sad sad day for Pakistan. "Pakistan Ka Khuda Hafiz" now i can truly understand this connotation.

 

[jamalahmedkhan17]

This is what America's grand strategies are all about! Be aware!

 

[aimail]

The Kerry Lugar Bill is the first US aid bill for Pakistan that does not contain any threat of sanctions against Pakistan. Its salient features are as.

1. The amount which is promised under the Kerry-Lugar bill is way more than which has been previously provided under Bush(3-5 billion dollar) and Reagan administration(6 billion dollar).

2. Though it is non military aid , but limitations on military equipment can still be waived if Secretary of states under the direction of President states that provision of such equipment is in the interest of US national security(SEC 203 e).It is similar to Presseler amendment during Reagan administration and Congressional approval during Bush administration.

3. The conditions attached under Kerry Lugar bill are similar, to what have been imposed during Zia and Musharraf regimes, they are little more elaborative this time. They are safe harbors in order to ensure, democratic, peaceful and economically developed Pakistan.

4. It is for the first time that Democrat administration is providing Pakistan with assistance at such a large scale. Previously Republican administration provided Pakistan with aid, but not at this scale.

5. US government do not want this money to go waste like previous aid money. They want it to be effectively utilized for the economic and social development of people of Pakistan, that?s why strict monitoring regime is established. Monitoring can not be equated with restrictions.

6. The conditions asking the Government of Pakistan to control the activities of banned terrorist out fits are in accordance with the policy of Government of Pakistan; who has it self condemned attack on neighboring countries by such religious outfits.

7. To ask the Government of Pakistan to control rogue element with in its intelligence agencies and to make them subservient to civilian rule is to strengthen the newly independent judiciary and elected government. The Government of US is well aware of the struggle of civil society for the restoration of Judiciary and their sacrifices for bringing democratic leadership back at helm of affairs.

Now I just put a question here, what is objectionable in this bill?. We are habitual of making hullabaloo without realizing the facts. Using this bill for political point scoring is ridiculous. It is time not time think for party interests rather to sacrifice party interests over national interests.

 

[XYON]

The Kerry -Lugar Bill essentially says the following to the Pakistani Nation

- You are housing terrorists in your territory

- You are responsible for recent attacks on India (our new local buddy) and Indian interests in Afghanistan!

- We are giving US$1 billion to Rehman Malik & Zardari

- We want Zardari to promote military Brigadiers and Generals

- Give us report on your nuclear arsenal

- You will tell us to whom you gave the nuke tech while we had put sanctions on you

- Here, take this petty cash as compensation to the services rendered against our war on terror and lives sacrificed

- Take this money or go take a hike, freakin' beggars!!

DID I MISS ANYTHING FELLOW PAKISTANIS?

My response to the US Congress............Shove this Bill Where the Sun Don't Shine!!

 

[Student]

The Kerry Lugar Bill is the first US aid bill for Pakistan that does not contain any threat of sanctions against Pakistan. Its salient features are as.

1. The amount which is promised under the Kerry-Lugar bill is way more than which has been previously provided under Bush(3-5 billion dollar) and Reagan administration(6 billion dollar).

What did good the aid giving under Baby Killing Bush lead to apart from mass suicide bombings that we see today this bill in it entity is a mass threat.

2. Though it is non military aid , but limitations on military equipment can still be waived if Secretary of states under the direction of President states that provision of such equipment is in the interest of US national security(SEC 203 e).It is similar to Presseler amendment during Reagan administration and Congressional approval during Bush administration.

What good did the pressler ammendment ever did to Pakistan? What if US suddenly decides that Pakistanis should defend themselves with chopsticks against the suicide bombers that they themselve nurture and support.

3. The conditions attached under Kerry Lugar bill are similar, to what have been imposed during Zia and Musharraf regimes, they are little more elaborative this time. They are safe harbors in order to ensure, democratic, peaceful and economically developed Pakistan.

There you go these are not merely elaborative but instead damn right insulting.

4. It is for the first time that Democrat administration is providing Pakistan with assistance at such a large scale. Previously Republican administration provided Pakistan with aid, but not at this scale.

Do you realy belive US cares that much for Pakistan if yes then why it does not provide aid like it gives to Israel? As far as civilian GOP is concerned this is the first time there has never been a mass sellout of Pakistan by a so called civilian Government at the scale we see today.

5. US government do not want this money to go waste like previous aid money. They want it to be effectively utilized for the economic and social development of people of Pakistan, that?s why strict monitoring regime is established. Monitoring can not be equated with restrictions.

It not merely monitoring its micro management If US is going to micro manage Pakistan then what is the need for Hundereds of thousands of Ministers Advisors and feet lickers.

6. The conditions asking the Government of Pakistan to control the activities of banned terrorist out fits are in accordance with the policy of Government of Pakistan; who has it self condemned attack on neighboring countries by such religious outfits.

So the US will decide and blame anyone as they see fit and become judge jury and the executioner at the same time. This is a massive black holes through which any Pakistani can disappear to Gitmo or Raw torture cells for no reason apart from the fact that US deems so.

7. To ask the Government of Pakistan to control rogue element with in its intelligence agencies and to make them subservient to civilian rule is to strengthen the newly independent judiciary and elected government. The Government of US is well aware of the struggle of civil society for the restoration of Judiciary and their sacrifices for bringing democratic leadership back at helm of affairs.

US has thus far failed to stop Karzai's brother and his closly associated elite from popy production in Afganistan. Anyone within the Army or any other institution who will refuse to bow to US will be easily branded an outlaw.

Now I just put a question here, what is objectionable in this bill?. We are habitual of making hullabaloo without realizing the facts. Using this bill for political point scoring is ridiculous. It is time not time think for party interests rather to sacrifice party interests over national interests.

This no political point scoring this bill is against the basic fundamentals of a Country having its own constitution. US is trying create another Husni Mubarak for Pakistan and this is not acceptable.

 

[Shehzad_Ahmed]

what will pakistan army and the ISI do if federal govt accepts the bill?.....Interesting times ahead