Kashmiris concerned by plans for Hindu satellite cities

[Contrarian]

Undermining is easy & has already been done (that is why there is a chief minister & not a prime minister), we must be careful in proceeding further.

I agree. To good extent we have undermined A370. I also agree that we must be very cautious in proceeding further.

Even if it was possible to abrogate Art.370, I have read & heard legal opinion that suggests it (abrogation) risks being struck down by the Supreme Court and may regarded as a basic tenet of the constitution (no constitutional amendments then possible) . No point risking that since that would probably prevent even the undermining in a gradual process. Better to let sleeping dogs lie.

I disagree here.

Legally - A370 can be only be modified and abrogated if the J&K Assembly passes the resolution followed by the Parliament. The Parliament can not unilaterally abrogate or modify A370 under any circumstances even if it does so by special majority.
But it can be done.

I think we have had status-quo for a long time. It is time to start chipping away.

For starters, GoI must build new suburbs, or failing on lack of finances, large townships to accomodate Hindus and Sikhs in the Valley. Build up a sizable number of non Muslims in the valley.

Once that is done, build up - overwhelmingly using vernacular news media in Kashmir, that lack of progress of Kashmir is directly because of A370 and that it must be legally relaxed(note: not abrogated) in certain areas. The vernacular media in all forms must be used and coerced, bribed, threatened and cajoled into this - any means that the Government has. Once done, the media has an incredible ability to make people see from any vewpoint they want.

That is how we must proceed. One step at a time, but with a solid plan nonetheless.

 

[Joe Shearer]

When people say that Kashmir was never a Hindu state, It is necessary to remind them history. Simply becoming a Muslim majority state do not give them any special right or Previllage. We shall resettle Pandeets and settle other indians to make kashmir a Hindu majority state so that every body can live there peacefully.

We do not need any certificates of Hindu culture from you. With our culture we have influenced the whole world and even doing today. I do not want to remind you the rape culture where more than 2 lakh women were raped just 43 years ago.

Delusion is your world and be happy in it. we are not at all in competition with you to be a failed state. So be happy reading Zia ul haque introduced History.

The difference is that fatal word culture.

It is not present-day Hindu majoritarian culture that influenced the whole world. This culture today is busy driving the whole world away, burning missionaries and their children alive, getting books banned under threat of violence, ransacking research institutes on the mistaken understanding that the research conducted there insults some icon or the other, demolishing art museums to show the artist that as a Muslim, he is a lesser being, and cannot paint what he wants without insulting others...it is a lurid imitation of bigoted middle-Eastern culture.

This imitation of the actions and behaviour of a failed state cannot produce a successful state. It will produce exactly what the original actions and behaviour did - a failed state.

 

[HariPrasad]

I see it no problem if the repudiation of article 370 means only to resettle the Kashmiri Hindus. Unfortunately, the allowing non Kashmiris to buy property for the sake of national integration looks like an ill motivated effort. Kashmir should remain as it is with its unique identity just like Himachal or any north eastern states. And any effort to change its demography should be looked as an direct defiance of our democratic constitution.

Article 370 must be abolished. J & K people have given mandate to BJP to do that. Simultaneously it is necessary to teach Mullah a lesson. What do you think? if you give them autonomy, they will live peacefully? Infact some group will make the life of ordinary people a hell. Mullahs will dominate the state. There will be couple of Fatwas every day dictating people to what to do and what not in their bed room.

Only solution is to mix these people with other indians by way of settling people in J & K and Kashmiris in other part of the India.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I am glad that @Contrarian , @scorpionx and @Bang Galore are present and contributing.

It lends some vestigial dignity to the discussion.

 

[HariPrasad]

Yes a few days an american women was raped by an indian immigrant ,keep exporting your rich hindu culture

Ratio of rape in India is just 1/16 th of that of America.

In Pakistan No one prosecuted for rape in last 5 years. Look at that.

Coming from someone who defecate on a street ,worship monkey and elephant gods in the 21st century and can,t eat regularly

Worshiping anything is better that beheading their own brethren and playing foot ball with them and killing the people on the name of religion.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Article 370 must be abolished. J & K people have given mandate to BJP to do that.

Nonsense.

Only a new constituent assembly of J&K can do that. Until then, Article 370 can be abrogated only in very specific ways.

Simultaneously it is necessary to teach Mullah a lesson. What do you think? if you give them autonomy, they will live peacefully? Infact some group will make the life of ordinary people a hell. Mullahs will dominate the state. There will be couple of Fatwas every day dictating people to what to do and what not in their bed room.

Only solution is to mix these people with other indians by way of settling people in J & K and Kashmiris in other part of the India.

Voluntarily done, without violence, a laudable objective.

Reading between the lines, I don't believe you mean anything other than Israel-type settlements.

Article 370 must be abolished. J & K people have given mandate to BJP to do that. Simultaneously it is necessary to teach Mullah a lesson. What do you think? if you give them autonomy, they will live peacefully? Infact some group will make the life of ordinary people a hell. Mullahs will dominate the state. There will be couple of Fatwas every day dictating people to what to do and what not in their bed room.

Only solution is to mix these people with other indians by way of settling people in J & K and Kashmiris in other part of the India.

I do agree that the fatwas issued in Kashmir are absolute horrors. However, Hindu moralists are guilty of similar crimes against society.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Article 370 must be abolished. J & K people have given mandate to BJP to do that. Simultaneously it is necessary to teach Mullah a lesson. What do you think? if you give them autonomy, they will live peacefully? Infact some group will make the life of ordinary people a hell. Mullahs will dominate the state. There will be couple of Fatwas every day dictating people to what to do and what not in their bed room.

Only solution is to mix these people with other indians by way of settling people in J & K and Kashmiris in other part of the India.

You are mistaken for the following reasons -

i. Pandits themselves won't want an unlimited influx of non Kashmiris into Kashmir. We are generally very narrow minded (not me personally necessary ).
ii. As for teaching lessons - trust me - the Indian Armed forces, the only force with the legal mandate, has done quite enough to do that.
iii. Kashmiris are also Indian. Does not matter if 10, 100 or 1000 of them disagree. So settling Kashmir with Indians is weird.
iv. Demographic change is a possible solution though apparently immoral. I am undecided about the merits of it. I hope proper procedure is followed to ensure stability and whatever policy is implemented is done with foresight.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Ratio of rape in India is just 1/16 th of that of America.

In Pakistan No one prosecuted for rape in last 5 years. Look at that.



Worshiping anything is better that beheading their own brethren and playing foot ball with them and killing the people on the name of religion.

Is that a fact? Have you any references? I was taken aback to read this.

 

[Joe Shearer]

You are mistaken for the following reasons -

i. Pandits themselves won't want an unlimited influx of non Kashmiris into Kashmir. We are generally very narrow minded (not me personally necessary ).
ii. As for teaching lessons - trust me - the Indian Armed forces, the only force with the legal mandate, has done quite enough to do that.
iii. Kashmiris are also Indian. Does not matter if 10, 100 or 1000 of them disagree. So settling Kashmir with Indians is weird.
iv. Demographic change is a possible solution though apparently immoral. I am undecided about the merits of it. I hope proper procedure is followed to ensure stability and whatever policy is implemented is done with foresight.

You really confuse me.

This was a post I wish I had written.

So are you a right-wing fascist and a religious bigot or not? Please speak up clearly.

 

[kaykay]

India should do whatever is in It's interest while carefully calculating pros and cons. If it favours Indian interests, go ahead. If not, plan something else.

 

[Contrarian]

You are mistaken for the following reasons -

i. Pandits themselves won't want an unlimited influx of non Kashmiris into Kashmir. We are generally very narrow minded (not me personally necessary ).

That has changed. It was true till a decade back. They have started realizing that having a small part of a big pie is better than having no part of a small pie.

ii. As for teaching lessons - trust me - the Indian Armed forces, the only force with the legal mandate, has done quite enough to do that.

I disagree. The mullah's have not learnt any lesson. The Indian Army has been unable to do that. Keep in mind that the local population is different from the mullah's.Infact Army now feeds into mullah's narrative and power. Counter productive IMO.

iv. Demographic change is a possible solution though apparently immoral. I am undecided about the merits of it. I hope proper procedure is followed to ensure stability and whatever policy is implemented is done with foresight.

It is not immoral by any stretch of imagination.

The only aspect I find immoral is that some communities feel that they need to physically reserve and dominate certain areas and that is the only way to preserve culture.

By that token, none but Punjabis should be able to buy property in Delhi, none but Marathis should be able to buy land in Maharashtra, none but Bengalis should be able to buy land in Bengal.

Because if we reserve such rights for Himachalis and J&Kashmiris then we ought to give the same semblance of equality to other ethnicities. The reason why Delhi'ites don't complain when a Odiya buys land and lives in Delhi, or a Marathi buys a flat and lives in Kolkata is because we have outgrown such parochial notions and have become accepting of Indian diversity.

And because of political pandering, people of some states have not. But that is no reason to assume that it is right. It should be roundly condemned, not encouraged.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

You really confuse me.

This was a post I wish I had written.

So are you a right-wing fascist and a religious bigot or not? Please speak up clearly.

Haha. I am a right wing fascist but religious I am not. Spiritual? - yes.

On the other hand demographic changes have been successfully done in many places around the world (Silesia, Sudetenland, East Prussia, Tibet etc), but thinking about a similar 'scary surgery' for my home state is too difficult for me to accept. I am not saying it's downright evil. But I don't know - it's like trying an evil experiment to something that's too close for comfort. But then a lot of evil has happened here. Not sure if one evil removes another

 

[halupridol]

I agree. To good extent we have undermined A370. I also agree that we must be very cautious in proceeding further.


I disagree here.

Legally - A370 can be only be modified and abrogated if the J&K Assembly passes the resolution followed by the Parliament. The Parliament can not unilaterally abrogate or modify A370 under any circumstances even if it does so by special majority.
But it can be done.

I think we have had status-quo for a long time. It is time to start chipping away.

For starters, GoI must build new suburbs, or failing on lack of finances, large townships to accomodate Hindus and Sikhs in the Valley. Build up a sizable number of non Muslims in the valley.

Once that is done, build up - overwhelmingly using vernacular news media in Kashmir, that lack of progress of Kashmir is directly because of A370 and that it must be legally relaxed(note: not abrogated) in certain areas. The vernacular media in all forms must be used and coerced, bribed, threatened and cajoled into this - any means that the Government has. Once done, the media has an incredible ability to make people see from any vewpoint they want.

That is how we must proceed. One step at a time, but with a solid plan nonetheless.

spoken like a true hindu baniya,,,,,,chankiya style

 

[SarthakGanguly]

That has changed. It was true till a decade back. They have started realizing that having a small part of a big pie is better than having no part of a small pie.

I disagree. The mullah's have not learnt any lesson. The Indian Army has been unable to do that. Keep in mind that the local population is different from the mullah's.Infact Army now feeds into mullah's narrative and power. Counter productive IMO.

It is not immoral by any stretch of imagination.

The only aspect I find immoral is that some communities feel that they need to physically reserve and dominate certain areas and that is the only way to preserve culture.

By that token, none but Punjabis should be able to buy property in Delhi, none but Marathis should be able to buy land in Maharashtra, none but Bengalis should be able to buy land in Bengal.

Because if we reserve such rights for Himachalis and J&Kashmiris then we ought to give the same semblance of equality to other ethnicities. The reason why Delhi'ites don't complain when a Odiya buys land and lives in Delhi, or a Marathi buys a flat and lives in Kolkata is because we have outgrown such parochial notions and have become accepting of Indian diversity.

And because of political pandering, people of some states have not. But that is no reason to assume that it is right. It should be roundly condemned, not encouraged.

Yeah I am not saying it's evil and bad. Just that whatever happens should be done with care and not just to flood deliberately. I think things will turn out fine. Hope's the thing.

 

[HariPrasad]

The difference is that fatal word culture.
It is not present-day Hindu majoritarian culture that influenced the whole world. This culture today is busy driving the whole world away, burning missionaries and their children alive, getting books banned under threat of violence, ransacking research institutes on the mistaken understanding that the research conducted there insults some icon or the other, demolishing art museums to show the artist that as a Muslim, he is a lesser being, and cannot paint what he wants without insulting others...it is a lurid imitation of bigoted middle-Eastern culture.
This imitation of the actions and behaviour of a failed state cannot produce a successful state. It will produce exactly what the original actions and behaviour did - a failed state.

What should i say you ? I have no medicine for your idiocy nor have a right to rate your post negatively. What all you quoted are the act of domestic violence and not the part of culture. There is no part in the world to where this sort of Incident doesn't happen.

A trend is created ,particularly in India by pseudo secular to link this sort of small incidences of violence with either Hindu terror or culture. They remain totally silent against the real issue of Human right violence and terror like you do. You did not mentioned burning of laddies and children alive in sabarmati express nor the religious clenching of Hindus from Kashmir. Actually these are the bigger incidences to be ashamed of. In australia, Indian were targeted so as shikhs in US. There is a very big amount of racial discrimination against indians in Europe. These are actually the act of shame. In India, people of various religion and ethnicity lives peacefully to gather. Pl tell me a society where this sort of incidence do not happen. However the person like you do not See greatness of this culture in that but try to find out Bigot middle eastern culture out of that wit a microscope.

If you really want to become the advocate of Human right and culture, be brave and develop a courage to tell a spade a spade rather than become a selective seeing something small but completely closing the eye on real big issues.