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Kargil : Indian Army's operation "Vijay" was ineffective

So who released this stamp?

View attachment 752457
There are stamps of IOK as a part of Pakistan. Does it mean its true? No.

Stamps are not empirical pieces of evidence.

Try harder.

 
There are stamps of IOK as a part of Pakistan. Does it mean its true? No.

Stamps are not empirical pieces of evidence.

Try harder.

Uh, yes. It is true.

So your Govt. Lied on its own stamps? Or is the postal service of Pakistan operated by RAW and Mossad?
 
Uh, yes. It is true.

So your Govt. Lied on its own stamps? Or is the postal service of Pakistan operated by RAW and Mossad?
I take it you haven't read the link then. You know in war there is something called the fog of war. That applies to everything more or less.

In the fog of war you susceptible to myths and lies.

Once it lifts however. The truth starts to reveal itself...

According to Lt Gen Naizi, Corps Commander of Eastern Command in 1971.

“The total fighting strength available to me [Gen Naizi] was forty-five thousand – 34,000 from the army, plus 11,000 from CAF and West Pakistan civilian police and armed non-combatants”who were fighting against the insurgents. Even if the strength of HL, MLA, depots, training institutes, workshops, factories, nurses and lady doctors, non-combatants like barbers, cooks, shoemakers and sweepers are added, even then the total comes to only 55,000.

Air Marshal Rahim khan, CNC Pakistan Air Force (1969-1972), had stated:

“The number of regular Pakistani troops in East Pakistan never exceeded 33,000-34,000. The rest is just propaganda by India and the Awami League, to magnify their success….”

Air Marshal Zulfiqar Ali Khan, who commended Eastern Wing of Pakistan Air Forces had asserted the same in these words:

“At the maximum, our regular fighting force in East Pakistan in December 1971 stood at 34,000. This figure does not include paramilitary personnel, military police, etc. Even if you include the auxiliaries, the total does not cross 45,000”.

General Akhtar Abdul Rehman. Former Vice Chief of Army Staff, speaking on the 1971 conundrum stated

“It was impossible for the 34,000 Pakistani troops in East Pakistan or for that matter any army in the world to fight against the combined strength of 200,000 Indian army and 170,000 Mukti Bahini, If not more, that too in a hostile environment 1200 miles away from West Pakistan …… Keeping into account all this, if the Indians still feel that they achieved a stunning military victory against Pakistan, I can only say they have fallen prey to their own propaganda”.

US congressman, Charles Wilson (famous for Charlie Wilson’s War) in a discussion with Pakistani diplomats in Washington DC remarked.

“……In 1971, it was certainly not possible for the 35,000 Pakistani troops in Dhaka to fight against the combined strength of 200,000 Indian army and the more than 100,000 Indian-trained Bengali guerillas.”

Another US congressman, Stephen Solarz, commenting on the War of 1971 in June 1989, remarked,

“Pakistanis are energetic, vibrant, and resilient. We must not be misled by 1971. It was certainly not possible for the 40,000 odd Pakistani army in Dhaka to fight against much larger Indian army and Indian-trained Bengali Bahinis in a hostile territory ….”

K C Pant, Indian former Defense Minister in September, 1994 during a discussion on Indo-Pak relations held in New Delhi, said

“Peace is important between Pakistan and India. We respect the professional competence of the Pakistani soldier. Had democracy continued in Pakistan, Islamabad would not have suffered the debacle resulting in the surrender of its 40,000 military personnel to India in East Pakistan”.

Sarmila Bose, the famous Indian Bengali writer and Associate Researcher at Oxford University in her book Dead Reckoning published in 2011, asserts

“…… t appears that while the total figure in Indian custody is about right, to state that 93,000 soldiers were taken prisoner is wrong, and creates confusions by greatly inflating the Pakistani fighting force in East Pakistan”.

Javed Jabbar, former Pakistani Minister of Information in his article, Estranged siblings-Pakistan and Bangladesh, 40 years later, wrote

“Pakistan’s armed forces did not exceed 45,000 troops at optimal levels. The 90,000 prisoners-of-war held by India included over 50,000 non- combatant, unarmed West Pakistani civilians.”

S. M. Hali, a well-known Pakistani analyst in his article, Breaking myths of 1971 Pak-India war writes,

“The total strength of Pakistan Army in East Pakistan (in 1971) was 40,000….”
 
Uh, yes. It is true.

So your Govt. Lied on its own stamps? Or is the postal service of Pakistan operated by RAW and Mossad?
Let me make it easy for you.....here's a picture of IAF POW in a Pakistani camp in 1972.....now tell me did the IAF only had Sikh pilots on strength or there were also Hindu, Muslim and Christian pilots.....who no doubt were also taken as POW.
The figure of 90 000 Pakistani POW doesn't mean they were all combat soldiers.....you had numerous other service officers who were present in East Pakistan....Police, Military Police, Customs , guard. The figure of combat troops was said to be around 40 000.
1623423747564.png
 
Let me make it easy for you.....here's a picture of IAF POW in a Pakistani camp in 1972.....now tell me did the IAF only had Sikh pilots on strength or there were also Hindu, Muslim and Christian pilots.....who no doubt were also taken as POW.
The figure of 90 000 Pakistani POW doesn't mean they were all combat soldiers.....you had numerous other service officers who were present in East Pakistan....Police, Military Police, Customs , guard. The figure of combat troops was said to be around 40 000.
View attachment 752466
Yes. 90000+ includes non combatants. Who were also part of the armed forces. They are not from the Civil Services.
 
Uh, yes. It is true.

So your Govt. Lied on its own stamps? Or is the postal service of Pakistan operated by RAW and Mossad?
Or your govt is telling a truth to you??? Lol 27 Feb is a prime example that's your govt lied to you guys àllol
Yes. 90000+ includes non combatants. Who were also part of the armed forces. They are not from the Civil Services.
LOL how do you know those non combatants were the part of our armed forces lol another fairytales by you guys lol
 
Ok you're superpower and you always win, now Happy:angel:
Nope. I never said anything of that sort.
We are normal people and a normal nation.
Super humans appear to stay very close by to us.


I shall reiterate again.

These aren't my points.

These are irrefutable facts.

We hold 4 peaks

We still patrol them today.

How was op vijay a success then?

Heck even if we held 1 peak that being 5353 then that will still mean op vijay is a failure.

You can keep saying I'm a no one and make out all these facts I am stating, I somehow made up by myself... Even though I didn't.
Reiterating some BS has no meaning.

You have not been able to comment on facts stated by Mushahid Hussain, Lt Gen Shahid Aziz, Lt Gen Majid Malik and Nazam Sethi. Because your head is buried in sand. These are the people who were actually involved in the operations or saw it very closely.

- When they say that Pakistan lost then that’s the fact.
- When they say that it was a botched operation then that’s the fact.
- When they say that Pakistan lost its face across the world then that’s the fact.

You jumping up and down with Parween Sawhney is a meaningless propaganda.

Do you know what here's a big question for you. Why, out of all the forums did you decide to make an account with PAKISTAN defence forum?
To stop some delusional blokes from spreading lies and propaganda. Thank god to this forum, I have been able to thwart your lies and propaganda about Kargil. Otherwise you would have already created a narrative like the one after 1965 war.
Proof is in the pudding. It has been 22 years since Kargil with thousands artillery duels from both sides..not once has Pakistan been able disrupt any traffic on NH1...why do you think that is.
You wouldn’t get an answer to that.
 
Nope. I never said anything of that sort.
We are normal people, a normal nation that was able to make the intruders run away.



Reiterating some BS has no meaning.

You have not been able to comment on facts stated byMushahid Hussain, Lt Gen Shahid Aziz, Lt Gen Majid Malik and Nazam Sethi. Because your head is buried in sand. These are the people who were actually involved in the operations or saw it very closely.

- When they say that Pakistan lost then that’s the fact.
- When they say that it was a botched operation then that’s the fact.
- When they say that Pakistan lost its face across the world then that’s the fact.

You jumping up and down with Parween Sawhney is a meaningless propaganda.


To stop some delusional blokes from spreading lies and propaganda. Thank god to this forum, I have been able to thwart your lies and propaganda about Kargil. Otherwise you would have already created a narrative like the one after 1965 war.
Considering how you haven't refuted the facts I presented you by your own people is the funniest crap I've seen in my life. And you think you are somehow destroying propaganda? By what? Linking videos which someone has already watched and debunked? You straight up ignored that person's reply to you.

If you don't want to believe the fact that you lost that war then so be it.

You didn't complete your objectives.

You didn't take back the peaks.

Refute me on those 2 points.


Because all you are doing is screeching reee muh videos, muh generals. Even though the same vids you linked clearly shows the generals sayin we didn't lose kargil.

Also nice to see you just joined here to flamebait under the guise of 'debunking muh propaganda'

The only thing that happened here on this thread was your *** being handed to you. You haven't refuted anything I said.

You haven't said how India won kargil. Just screeching 'because pakistan lost' doesn't mean you won.

How did we lose? How did you win?

We have 4 of your peaks.

Cope my little Indian friend. Cope.
 
Nope. I never said anything of that sort.
We are normal people and a normal nation.
Super humans appear to stay very close by to us
LOL you guys always rants that you're the superpower don't blame your nonsense on us PAKISTAN never claimed that we're SUPERPOWER
 
Considering how you haven't refuted the facts I presented you by your own people
Own people? India is a nation of more than 1.2 billion. Anyone can find someone stating something that meets his narrative.

Shall I post videos of Arif Ajaika and Tarik Fatah? Both Pakistanis and known for critical analysis of your nation.

Parveen Sawhney may be your favourite source because he meets your narrative.
The sources I have quoted and you are avoiding are all highly placed ones with intimate knowledge of what transpired in Kargil.
Your avoiding them wouldn’t change how world sees it.
You are trying to glean one glimmer of positive by creating a narrative out of a very clear situation. A situation cast in stone.


Kargil was a complete fiasco for Pakistan and Pakistan lost comprehensively because India won.
LOL you guys always rants that you're the superpower don't blame your nonsense on us PAKISTAN never claimed that we're SUPERPOWER
You don’t have to say that Pakistan is a superpower.
I am giving that status to you, because only a superpower can convert a defeat into victory after 22 years.
This thread is a proof that Pakistan is indeed a superpower.
 
Own people? India is a nation of more than 1.2 billion. Anyone can find someone stating something that meets his narrative.

Shall I post videos of Arif Ajaika and Tarik Fatah? Both Pakistanis and known for critical analysis of your nation.

Parveen Sawhney may be your favourite source because he meets your narrative.
The sources I have quoted and you are avoiding are all highly placed ones with intimate knowledge of what transpired in Kargil.
Your avoiding them wouldn’t change how world sees it.
You are trying to glean one glimmer of positive by creating a narrative out of a very clear situation. A situation cast in stone.


Kargil was a complete fiasco for Pakistan and Pakistan lost comprehensively because India won.

You don’t have to say that Pakistan is a superpower.
I am giving that status to you, because only a superpower can convert a defeat into victory after 22 years.
This thread is a proof that Pakistan is indeed a superpower.
And here you go again. Screeching about something else. Avoiding the truth. The questions.

When I say your people I mean praveen swahmy and RK Anand. People whose comments you are still yet to refute.

Again you keep screeching ve ij win because pakistan lost reee.

How?

Someone else has already destroyed you on the vids.



4 peaks under our control

Cope hehe
 
What were Pakistan's objectives in securing a few random peaks in Kargil that too, occupying peaks when Indian soldiers weren't there. Very heroic I must say.
 
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